3 PH Position control vs draft control: Tractor Implements  -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum and Review 3 PH Position control vs draft control: Tractor Implements -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum

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 08-27-2002, 13:42 Post: 41694
DRankin



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 3 PH Position control vs draft control

Does position control mean you can raise and lower the 3PH in increments? Or is there another term for that? What is draft control?






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 08-27-2002, 14:33 Post: 41696
Murf

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 3 PH Position control vs draft control

Draft Control is a system used almost exclusively on Agricultural equipment for maintaining the attitude of 'ground engaging' implements, such as plows, discs, cultivators, etc. It is basically a pressure-sensitive valve built into the upper link of the 3pth, as pressure increases and decreases against the valve, the 3pth is automatically adjusted to maintain the set point. The assumption is, that pulling a (for example) plow at a uniform depth will create a uniform pressure, going shallower would result in less pressure and going deeper would increase the pressure on the upper link. It is almost useless for the sorts of tasks a 'typical' compact is used for, box-blading for example, the system would not allow a constant cut since the accumulated material filling the box would cause it to unload instead of maintaining the cut depth. Hope this clears it up.... Best of luck.






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 08-28-2002, 06:59 Post: 41719
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 3 PH Position control vs draft control

Mark: I posted my explanation in the other hitch thread. To Murf's comment, I'll add that draft control has two levers. One adjusts the sensitivity of the lift to changes in draft. Decreasing the sensitivity means that it takes heavier drafts to trigger the lift.

The sensitivity to draft can virtually be taken out of the mechanism and then the hitch sort of works like position control. Full up on the draft lever raises the hitch for transport. In draft control the hitch flops when there is no draft (you can't stop in draft control).

The other lever is the position control, but it controls how high the hitch can go rather than how low like in position control. The position control is used so that draft control can't pull a plow clear out of the ground.

In terms of a hitch raising in increments, I don't think anybody is very successful at 'feathering' them. It's just not the nature of the beast. Thatís why I virtually never touch the 3ph when I grade with a box blade--3ph movements just aren't precise enough and the timing is usually off as well. I control action of the box almost entirely with a hydraulic top-link. I mentioned something I called a 'centre-neutral' hitch in another thread. I've never used one, but just maybe they feather better than position control hitches. Since in the other thread I said Iíve never plowed with a moldboard, here Iíll say that Iíve never used draft control. Some experience huh?






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 08-29-2002, 10:52 Post: 41775
Art White



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 3 PH Position control vs draft control

A good question here Mark, let me straighten some things out fropm Tom's post. While using the draft control you drop you lift lever all the way to the bottom and adjust the depth with the draft control. That is the proper way to adjust your depth. It is very easy to use with a boxblade and works very good to the point that you can't beat the level you will have when done. Like with any other grading tool don't be a hog as you won't get to where you need to go, just a little all the way just like with a dozer. Getting a little more indepth and I haven't followed the compact tractors but on some the draft control doesn't work fast or sensitive enough to make a difference. Our big farm tractors run at less than a 7% load change with adjustments made by the seconds, some competition runs a 20% load change for it to moniter which at that point you have lost 20% of your pulling power often to late and you would be spinning your tires.






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 08-30-2002, 05:58 Post: 41801
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 3 PH Position control vs draft control

Some years back somebody made a comment that they used a 3ph backhoe on a tractor that was in draft control mode. The way the story went, about the first serious dig, top-link compression triggered the hitch into lift mode. The teller said the engine started labouring furiously and the locked down hitch groaning mightily. He bailed out of the seat and ran. The engine killed and part of the mount was bent. Once lift was triggered on a locked down hitch, lift wouldn't reduce the compression to take it out of lift mode. I guess that the locked-down hitch also was locked-up or the hoe probably would have flopped on the ground in draft mode.

I've wanted to try a box scraper with draft control. I think it would help keep from gouging at the bottom of hills. I have to feather the hydraulic top-link out as the box starts up a hill. But then I also think: Do I really want 'constant draft' lifting the box over bumps and lowering it into dips? Some draft sensitivity setting probably would work just fine.






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 09-06-2002, 22:35 Post: 42113
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 3 PH Position control vs draft control

One point to note. Tractors such as the Ford 600 series and even the 8Ns had draft control fed through a spring behind the top link. It does work and well - only for plowing. As most of you know the 3 point hitch was designed by Harry Ferguson who teamed with Henry Ford to make a 9N in about 1939. All modern tractors use this basic design. In addition to the position control we have on the compacts - the old units - many of them had draft control - primarily to comensate for when the front tires go in a perpendicular rut. Questions?






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 09-07-2002, 08:18 Post: 42124
TomG

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 3 PH Position control vs draft control

I think large farm tractors tended to put the draft sensing mechanism on the lower link arms--same principal though. Regarding Ferguson and Ford, I wondered for awhile if the collaboration resulted in the Fordson tractors--sort of an amalgamation of the two names, but I was wrong.

The story I heard is that a son of Ford started a tractor company and then found he couldn't call them Ford until Ford Motors bought the tractor company. Given the story, I was surprised to find that Fordsons were made into the 50's, long after some of the Nís that always were simply called Fords as far as I know. I probably don't have quite all the story.






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 09-07-2002, 11:20 Post: 42126
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 3 PH Position control vs draft control

" think large farm tractors tended to put the draft sensing mechanism on the lower link
arms--same principal though"

TomG
What tractor had the draft sensing mechanism on the lower link arms? And how could that possibly work? Seems the only way draft controlt will function is if the sensing (compression/tension) is in the top arm linkage. Then the sensitivity of the draft is done by either setting the top link in different holes or with a draft control lever.
Sure is a lot of confusion about draft control and mis-informing answers and poorly worded explanations (albeit very good intentions by the authors) just adds to that confusion. Communication is a difficult thing, but provides for interesting chat.






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 09-07-2002, 11:27 Post: 42127
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 3 PH Position control vs draft control

A plagerized definition of the 3 controls on tractors is taken from another site, and comes from JohnMiller3.

Quote "Millerís simple definitions:

The draft control is used to control the depth of the implement below the surface of the
groundÖ

The position control is used to control the height of the implement above the surface of the
groundÖ

Float is used to allow the implement to follow the contour of the ground surfaceÖ






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 09-07-2002, 11:29 Post: 42128
Art White



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 3 PH Position control vs draft control

Kay, I'll chip in here on this, for the most part any that are over 80pto horsepower or 100 engine will have lower sensing. Most of these tractors are using it for plowing and do not use the top link as they are what we call semi-mounted. Massy was the only one that kept top link sensing on larger tractors than those I mentioned.






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