TC33D FEL wimpy  Or just need fixin : Tractor Engine Repair Rebuild  -- Tractor Maintenance Discussion Forum and Review TC33D FEL wimpy Or just need fixin : Tractor Engine Repair Rebuild -- Tractor Maintenance Discussion Forum

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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Tractor Engine Repair Rebuild Forum

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 12-15-2001, 15:41 Post: 33837
treeman



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 TC33D FEL wimpy Or just need fixin

I just drove a new TC33D with a belly mower and NH FEL. The hydrolics were making alot of noise on the RH side of the tractor. Thinking there was air in the lines, I raised the loader to the full extremes and it didn't make any difference. I then tipped the bucket forward some and tried to lift the front tractor tires off the ground by lowering the loader under power. It couldn't lift them! I knew it was trying because when I went to "float" , it let the pressure off. So I cranked up some RPM....It still couldn't lift the front tires. All the other loader tractors I've drove could do this. The sales guy said he would have someone look at it.






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 12-15-2001, 19:42 Post: 33840
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 TC33D FEL wimpy Or just need fixin

I had Kubota L345DT, NH 1220 they both wouldn't pick up the front tires, now I have a JD 855 and it dosn't either.They all would pick up the tires if I used the bucket to curl up.
Tom






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 12-15-2001, 21:35 Post: 33844
treeman



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 TC33D FEL wimpy Or just need fixin

I know that the down pressure is going to be less because the oil pressure is pushing against the rod end of the cylinder. I'm missing the "square inch area" that is being taken up by the cylinder rod. A 3" cylinder with a 1.5" rod is going to have 25% less down pressure than up.






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 12-16-2001, 08:28 Post: 33849
TomG

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 TC33D FEL wimpy Or just need fixin

Hard to say what's normal, but in general I’d think that a loader that wouldn’t lift the front (with the lift rather than curl cylinders) isn’t working quite right. Some loaders won't lift the front when the bucket is flat because they don't go low enough, but most will lift the front when the bucket is tilted down. Good thing too, because I've gotten stuck in small excavations with the wheels cramped. Dropping the bucket load and lifting the wheels makes it easy to straighten out the wheels. I have to drop the load, because my loader won’t lift the front when the bucket is flat. Same idea makes it easy to get tractors that have some front axle wind-up in and out of 4wd.

Because lifting the wheels is useful, you'd think loaders would be engineered so they could despite the reduced force on the rod side of the cylinder that treeman noted. The design compromise would be to use larger cylinders, but that would slow down a loader. Similarly, it’s interesting to note that the strong sides of the curl cylinders are on the dump side where the least power is needed most times. Some construction equipment does it the other way.

Hydraulics making 'a lot of noise' can be the relief valve opening, which could be due to a heavy load, something wrong in the system or a cylinder reaching the end of its travel. Ordinarily not much air get into hydraulic cylinders, and that which does bubbles out while oil is in the sump. However, sometimes cylinders are 'cycled' to purge them of air by running them each way to their max travel and holding the valve open for a few seconds. The relief valve should open.






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 12-17-2001, 13:37 Post: 33878
treeman



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 TC33D FEL wimpy Or just need fixin

I went back to the dealership and they said that it is normal that loader down-pressure will not lift the front wheels. When curling the bucket, it will lift the front wheels very easily. Now, about the hydrolic noise that's coming from the right-hand side of the tractor, I can feel the vibration of the noise through the hydrolic lines going to the loader control. The tractor has two remotes out back and if you slightly move either of the levers for the remotes it will quiet the noise. The mechanic is going to take a look at the tractor.






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 12-17-2001, 14:57 Post: 33879
tbarber



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 TC33D FEL wimpy Or just need fixin

It sounds like there is a slight air leak. I had one of the hose
fittings come loose on my NH, and it would make a squealing noise. It was sucking air in.
Tom






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 12-18-2001, 08:01 Post: 33891
TomG

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 TC33D FEL wimpy Or just need fixin

I don't mind being wrong, but it's news to me. Actually it's the first time I've heard anybody say their loader wouldn't lift the front wheels, especially if the bucket is pointed down. I guess some might not seem to lift at low rpm.

Well, I guess you have to go with what a dealer says is normal. Still, compacts tend to be fairly light in the front and a bucket has fair leverage. Makes me sort of wonder if the lifting capacity might be surprisingly low.

In an open centered system, full hydraulic flow goes through the loader valve assembly (SCV) all the time. When a control valve is operated, the pump develops pressure and a cylinder moves. Flow decreases under pressure, but still full flow goes through the SCV unless the pressure is high enough for the relief valve to open.

When the hydraulic system is not operated, the pressure is low and little if any noise can be heard. When a valve is operated, pressure increases and some 'flow noise' is normal. Normal flow noise is different than the relief valve sound that is more like a scream.

There's a chance that the rear remote valves are not coming back fully to the open center position. If so, there is what amounts to an obstruction in the line that could create an abnormal noise and also could rob the loader of some power. Open centered systems can omit air on the suction side of the pump, but there’s almost always some pressure everywhere on the high-pressure side of the pump. I guess I'd see what the mechanic has to say.






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 12-18-2001, 20:39 Post: 33895
Jeff B



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 TC33D FEL wimpy Or just need fixin

I'll vote wimpy. My TC33D will just barely get the wheels off the ground if I'm at full throttle.






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 12-18-2001, 22:49 Post: 33896
treeman



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 TC33D FEL wimpy Or just need fixin

I went back to the dealer and took a closer look at the loader cylinder. It looked like about a two inch bore and a 1.25 to 1.375 inch rod. That means the loader will only have two thirds of the up force for down force. This one has a belly mower on it also. An extra 500lbs? If I put the bucket down flat, and then curl it down, it will pick up the front tires with ease.






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 12-19-2001, 05:26 Post: 33897
TomG

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Seems to be a consensus for wimpy. I guess now I'll have to wonder how unwimpy my loader might be without a 600 - 700 pound implement on the 3ph. There's almost always something on the 3ph that would lighten the front. A mid-mower would certainly add weight to the front. Hope this thread helps sort out what's normal and what should be expected. I believe that everybody always both learns as well as contributes here.

I depend on down pressure to lift the front when I'm compacting gravel. Lifting the wheels with the bucket fairly flat and back-dragging while using brake steering does a pretty good job. Compacting gravel is important to me, and I suppose I could use the curl if the lift down-pressure wasn't enough. However, what I learned thinking this through is that I probably should drop any 3ph implement before doing final compacting.

I'm still curious about the noise. I had some hydraulic problems before I changed the oil and filter. Occasionally the loader would hesitate or the 3ph wouldn't lift. I found that jiggling the control valves cleared things up. I figure that the old contaminated oil sometimes prevented the valves from returning completely to center-- I can't recall noticing any abnormal noises through. Anyway, part of the description of the original problem reminded me of my former hydraulic problems.

It is possible for air to get into the pressure side lines while dumping a heavy load. The load wants to move the cylinder faster then the pump can refill the pressure side. Enough vacuum can be generated to cavitate the oil. I suppose loose fittings could admit air and make a sound, but that would occur only during a short period when dumping heavy loads.







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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Tractor Engine Repair Rebuild Forum

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