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bo
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1999-12-13          10966

Here's an interesting question. Got an extra set of tractor lights that I am thinking of mounting on the rops of my jd870. Getting juice to the lights is real easy with a quick connect to the wires that are already on the factory installed rear flood lights. This would mean that the new rops lights would operate with the switch on the dash. The wires going to the rear flood lights look to be about 18 guage. The new rops lights meter out at 2.6amp draw each. The question is , if I hook up the new lights to existing wires, will they overdraw and melt the wires? Should I run the new lights through a relay and independent wires {not my preference} ..the alternator puts out 20amps and this seems to be boarder line adequate. What do you think? bo

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Don in OR
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1999-12-13          10973

Bo, you should be O.K. with the existing wiring, and it should already be protected at the fuse box. The only problem you may have is battery drawdown with all the lights on. The 870's alternator will put out 20 amps at full throttle only. At idle they put out almost nothing. I've had this problem with add-on cabs with extra lights, heaters, etc. Hopefully one more light than factory spec. wont cause you any problems, but I'm sure if you ad any more you will run out of juice. Good luck. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-12-13          10975

Bo,
Having had our dealer install 2 JD worklights mounted to the rear of our 4100 at purchase, I can't say I've seen a problem yet. The lights are also controlled from the dash. JD does offer an alternator upgrade kit (35amp)for a premium price. ....

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bo
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1999-12-13          10979

Mls- welcome back, you were missed, at the expense of a fued, you synthetic boys got whupped. You missed a hot one, dig up the old posts- you'l find it entertaining, especially about the difference between petroleum and ky jelly and oil being like golf balls and basketballs and 100000mile oil change using jojoba oil. The problem is that I already have two lights installed on the back the back of the tractor and I want to add two more additional lights high on the rops and tap the rear flood light wires. Wire size is sort of an issue cause the rear floods draw about 2.5 amps each and I intend to add two more at 2.5 amps each. Add to that the hazard flashers and the headlights and I'll bet I'll be pushing close to 20amps, the output of the alternator. Another poster mentioned that all I would do is run down the battery at best and that's ok as long as I don't fry any of the wires from overdraw. I think you only have one set of rear facing lights as I do presently. Ah, what the hell, unless someone tells me otherwise, I'll do what I usually do, do it then wish the hell I didn't although most times I get lucky. Hope you enjoyed your weekend and check the posts for the past week. bo ....

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Larry
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1999-12-13          10982

Bo, according to the ARRL Handbook 18ga. wire can handle 16 amps. continous duty in open air, and 10 amps. continuous duty in cables or bundles. 4 work lights at 2.5 amps each is 10 amps which puts you at the limit of current carrying capacity for #18 wire in a bundle or conduit. When you add in head lights and 4 way flashers you will probably be at or just over the alternator limit. Hope this helps. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-12-13          10988

Darn it, looks like I misread your posting again. I'm not sure about the mention to the alternator only putting out 20A at max RPMs. Most Alternators I'm familiar with have max output between 1/4,1/2 throttle. At any rate, OMO, I think you'd be pushing the wire harness beyond what it was designed to handle.
Not to mention the increased load resistance and power losses associated with wires of that gauge. Generally a 20A fuse is used on a 10A "operational" load. Although I'm sure someone, somewhere will prove me wrong or state otherwise. But I have managed to remember the .707 rule from College. Its also my understanding that ALT's fry from prolonged use at "maximum" output, or at the point where your battery is drained and can no longer assume the additional current requirement. Either way, Excessive heat is usually the eventual killer. I doubt your in the market for a battery, but an Optima Gell Cell might ease things a bit. Having used them in High drain applications, OMO they are well worth the extra money. And they've come down a bit in price. I know you don't want to hear this, but I think running a new line from the Battery will not only provide a cleaner, safer solution, but it gives you additional flexability of selecting which lights you need. (fronts), (rears), (Fronts & Rears). Course, if your like me, you'll need em all on..all the time. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-12-13          10990

I forgot to mention the biggest reason "I" would seperate em. Sometimes the Fronts in the hood are annoying while using the loader, nor do the do much when the bucket is blocking them. It would be nice to turn them off, and only use the ROPS lights. Nice find Larry. I'm also looking to do what Bo has mentioned..Only I'm gunna wait to see if something bad happens to Bo's unit before doing anything. Just kidding.. We'll figure it out. ....

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JJT
Join Date: Jun 1999
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1999-12-13          10991

Are these new lights going to face rear? Don't you already have enough light in the back. My vote, (I did this on my Kubota l3710), would be to run new wire and fuse to a new switch, run the lights yu want and not overrun the alternator. I've got front and rear lights on the Kubota and they have their own fuses and switches. Blowing snow in reverse with the front lights on is impossible, (too much glare). But they are great for field work. ....

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bo
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1999-12-13          10994

jT--Nope-new lights are going to face forward just like the headlights. the rear floods are ok but with the bucket and primarily with the snow plow, the two block out the headligths and alot of my snow plowing is done in the dark. Although we have had no snow in Western N.Y. {florida of the north}. This warm weather is unusual. I agree that a sperate wire and switch is probably best although not the easiest to do. Gotta think on this one. Thanks bo ....

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b
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1999-12-13          10997

Larry- thanks for the info. on amp. carrying capacity of 18g wire. Superior info. Most usefull. Hate to admit it but the post from Mls about going direct to the battery with a switch is something I should have thought of, I did this on my golf cart and it works fine. Both you guys jogged my memory and I'm appreciative. {ain't gonna tell this to mls- it'll swell his head} {and,no, I don't use the golf cart for golf afore you gentlemen says something ungracious} bo ....

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Vince
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1999-12-13          11000

Bo I believe you've got some good advise here... But a few things to remember, If the existing circuit your thinking about tying into is fused correctly and you use the same wire size, you should never melt wire insulation, But you may blow alot of fuses. the best thing to do is find a good pos.+ source either at the battery or at the fuse block and run a new wires, install a fuse to protect the wire, 10 amp for #18 wire sounds right, and remember to keep the unprotected wire, which is the wire between your source and the fuse, as short as possible. Then a weatherproof toggle switch mounted somewhere convient. And one more thing, Ground return paths are sometimes a problem, it may be a good idea to run a ground wire while your at it. ....

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Vince
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1999-12-13          11005

Gentlemen, Please forgive me. My mother taught me better. Let me introduce myself, my name is Vince as you know, I live in Northern Penna. and I'm a farmer "Want-a-be". Just not smart enough to be able to do it. So the best I can do is brush hog old pastures and do some wildlife habitat improvement. I found this site a little while back and have really enjoyed reading and benifiting from all of your experience. Thank you very much. ....

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tom
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1999-12-14          11011

I recently put 4A floods on front on back of my canopy. The lights have their own switches so I can use them independently without having to put a bunch of toggle switches on the dash. I mounted the lights to the canpoy using
standard AC octagional junction boxes screwed edgewise to the bottom of the canopy.

The junction boxes allow the lights to be mostly below the canopy level and pretty well fold under the canpoy when not in use. The boxes also saved me the
trouble of drilling 1/2" holes in the tractor for the light mounting stubs.

The boxes have grounding lugs. You just have to make sure the box mounting
screws make good metal to metal contact with the canopy.

I ran 16g wire directly from the battery through a 10a in-line fuse. That seemed like a better idea then using a spare slot on the fuse block. The wiring harness wire going to the fuse block is fairly light wire. Don't imagine engineers designed the harness for people who want a bunch of extra lights on their tractors.

To be easy on the alternator, I don't plan using both floods and the head lights
at the same time. The head lights are pretty well useless with a loader on anyway. Topping up the battery with a trickle charger also would reduce load on the alternator.
....

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Vince
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1999-12-14          11012

Bo, no snow yet, I don't expect any this week. Have a safe trip. ....

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Mike S.
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1999-12-14          11017

Since the FEL is in the way of the tractor's headlights, it would appear that ROPS-mounted (forward-facing)lights would be very practical. Do any of you have any suggestions as to which lights would be the best to mount on the ROPS to replace the headlights during FEL work at night? (I doubt if Lucas Flamethrowers or KC HiLites would work since they would draw too many amps).
Mike S. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-12-14          11019

Bo,
Would have responded sooner, but my head swelled to the point where I couldn't type anymore. Knowing your plans for the ROPS lights, A seperate switch seems to be the logical choice. Plus your not adding additional load to the ALT, if the fronts are turned off. The mention to KC lights...Anything more than clear fog (pattern) lights are pretty much a waste. Considering top speed is about 10MPH, its doubtfull that a (Pencil beam) KC daylighter would prove beneficial.
Its a shame JD's worklights are a bit more expensive, (OMO) they have an excellent beam pattern for use on a tractor. Unlike others which seem better suited on your truck. ....

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Scott
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1999-12-14          11028

I have a 4100 also and have thought about putting some extra lights on the ROPS, forward facing, for snow removal. BUT, I wonder if this will create a problem with my warranty (with almost two years remaining). Not that it matters, I guess, since it's the middle of freakin' December and it hasn't snowed yet here in New Hampshire. Uhg!!!!I'm chomping at the bit here (can you tell I'm a new tractor owner?!) ....

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Larry
Join Date: Mar 2004
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1999-12-14          11031

bo, I'm not sure how this engineering marvel will end up but it has sparked a thread of interest that can only be rivaled by the turf tearing issue. I thought the .707 rule had to do with converting a.c. power equivalent to d.c. power equivalent. To muddy the waters further the 1.414 rule works in the other direction (d.c. to a.c.). That should wake up mls. Thanks for the info on the golf cart. I had no idea that an 870 could double as a golf cart....just teasing. ....

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Vince
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1999-12-14          11035

Hey guys I saw some floods lights at "Central Tractor" with magnetic mounts,(a good size stainless hose clamp would be a little more secure for backup holding to the rops) and a cigarette plug at the other end. Anyone have a cigarette lighter on their machine. Just a thought. BTW, I remember the .707 to comvert a peak AC voltage to the equivelent RMS voltage. As in your house voltage is 120 VAC but the peak of the sign wave hits about 169 volts referenced to ground... we are getting away from the good stuff...tractors. ....

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bo
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1999-12-14          11042

Scott- put on the lights and if you have a warranty fix- take them off. I'm with you, nothing I like better then pushing a foot or two of snow into huge piles and impressing the hell out of my neigbors. You think you got problems in New England with no snow? Try western N.Y. the whole world knows about the Buffalo area and snow. We ain't got a flake,Maimi of the north. bo ....

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Vince
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1999-12-14          11043

Hey Bo, let me remind you that it was MLS that started that .707 crap not me, I still don't know what it has to do with mounting a light or two on your ROPS. But I bought one of those magnetic floods... I'll probably try to mount it DURING the blizzard. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-12-15          11050

I wish a few of you lived close enough that you could stop by and kick me in the head..I'm such an idiot some times..Worst part about it, is that I don't keep it to myself. hey, at least I'll be ready when JD starts putting AC on thier tractors. Hey, like I said, I do remember something from college... Obviously don't remember how to apply it. Whew.. ....

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RobertN
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1999-12-15          11072

Have you guys thought of custom alternaters? I have worked with a Alternater/generator/motor shop in sacramento Ca that will take your alternater and custom wind it for additional output.

Being around 4x4's a lot, I have seen a lot of alternator/welder setup, designed especially so they charge at low RPM. This is true in winching applications too.

a lot of 4x4'ers spend a fair fair amount of time creeping around in low range, low rpm(especially rock crawlers). There are folks out there that have thier alternaters modified so they charge more at lower rpms. If you do a heavy winch pull, and drain your battery, you want it to charge back up again. If you don't have a alternater that works at low rpm while you running at just above a idle, your battery would never charge. Seems pretty applicable for tractors too.

Heck, I know some of you would drool all over a tractor with tons of power coming off the altenater, that just happens to power a arc welder too! Wouldn't it be nice to be able to make repairs in the field? Oh, the one on my bother-in-laws Jeep also has two 120VAC outlets. Wanna run a drill, blender, ect? ....

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turfman
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 97 midwest
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1999-12-15          11090

I purchased the magnetic lights from Northern hydralics with the cigarette lighter plug on the end. I own a 4400 JD. Then had the dealer run some extra wire connected to the rear worklight harness up the ROPS to the inside holes of the turn signals. From there I installed lighter jacks from Radio Shack and tied them on with nylon ties to the ROPS and use them when I need them. The jacks also come in handy when I wanted to keep track of speed in mph with GPS. I have also used a magnetic strobe flasher when working in high traffic areas. The other advantage to the magnetics is you can reverse them to rear work or take them off when you work around low clearance. Have used mine for years on both 955 and a my new 4400. Thats my two cents. ....

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bo
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1999-12-15          11092

turfman- If you got a few minutes,could you check to see exactly where the dealer tied into the rear work light harness. My original thought would be to tie into the rear work lights within a few inches of them. Secondly, when you run the rop lights, do you have all your lights on and if so, does your alternator keep up with the current demands. Appreciate the effort. bo ....

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turfman
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Posts: 97 midwest
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1999-12-15          11101

Bo, I will look tomorrow and see about that connection. As for the keeping up, I have never had a problem, will have to see. The dealer didn't think i would have a problem either. The lights are not especially bright,about 50 watts but they do help. I am going to look into some different ones that are on a utility cart i own that are the brightest I have ever seen. will let you know tomorrow about the connection. ....

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Mike S.
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1999-12-17          11175

Regarding ROPS lights--someone should invent and market an all-purpose ROPS light package somewhat similar to a police light bar. It would bolt beneath about any ROPS (color doesn't matter) and be almost as wide as the inside dimension of a ROPS. In this light package would be a pair of forward facing flood lights, rear facing flood lights, and yellow or red flashers on the backside. Appropriate switches would be designed into the package. Such an item could be used inlieu of the regular tractor lights so the alternator/battery would not be overloaded.
Mike S. ....

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RobertN
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1999-12-18          11233

Blazer(maybe Blaser) used to make a light bar just like you guys are talking about for 4x4 trucks, Jeeps(Rule #1!) and such. It had forward lights, lights facing back, and I believe side lights. It looked very much like the lite bars on a police car. If I remember right, they had 100w or 150w lights.

If these guys are still around, they would probably be a good setup for a tractor. The bulbs would have to be changed to 50w, considering the alternater on most small tractors.

They were designed for a Jeep or truck, so the may be a bit on the wide side.

I'll look for the info in some of the magazines I have this weekend.

I did look in Gall's. They had EMS, Police and Fire stuff but not utility stuff. ....

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