When are Tires unsafe: Toyota Pickup Trucks  -- Trucks Trailers Discussion Forum and Review When are Tires unsafe: Toyota Pickup Trucks -- Trucks Trailers Discussion Forum

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 09-15-2003, 19:09 Post: 63977
DennisCTB



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 When are Tires unsafe

Yup, it all depends on use. Long tread life is not always a good thing either, usually at odds with traction, handling....

I used to be an avid bicycle nut, before kids, I started using Michelins on the bike, I was not as happy with them as on cars.

Recently I have found that bicycle road tires have gone thru the roof, I guess it could be that a lot fewer people do it than eight years ago, most people seem to ride mountain bikes now, and my mountain bike tires look like they will last forever.

Plus with the extra pounds on me I seem to be blowing those 25mm road tires awfully quick.

So when are we starting the weight loss program!

Dennis
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 09-15-2003, 19:35 Post: 63979
kwschumm



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 When are Tires unsafe

I'm reluctant to join a community weight-loss effort because my weight it coming off SO SLOW with Atkins. I've lost maybe 6 lbs in two months. Low fat diets seem to work much better for me, so I may go that route instead.

To tie it back into this thread, I can tell you when I was busting 40-50 tires/day I was in a LOT better shape. Physical labor has it's benefits Smile






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 09-15-2003, 22:01 Post: 63987
Peters

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 When are Tires unsafe

OK;
Let me add my two cents worth. Heat build up is a problem as the rate of decomposition with double for each 10 degrees C or 18 degrees F, but I don't believe that it is related to tire thickness. The heavy truck tires run for thousands of miles and are often retreaded.
I have had problems with Michelin tires breaking down on the side walls while the tread looks fine and has 80% of the tread left (measured). They had plenty of miles 60K+.
With the new compounds we tend to still look at the tread and this may not be the problem. We need to look at other problems with the tires.
Low strength on Nylon or polyester cord is normally do to residual water in processing of the fibers. Polyester is difficult to obtain the correct crystalinity to gain strength. I guess Allied France needed a polymer chemist.
I replaced a set of Goodyears at a little over 60K as they were starting to crack at the edges with lots of tread so the problem is not just Michelins.






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 09-15-2003, 22:30 Post: 63991
kwschumm



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 When are Tires unsafe

Thanks for the engineering perspective. I was thinking the additional thickness would have an insulative effect where the peak temperature might be a bit higher and the exposure period would be a bit longer. Maybe not.






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 09-15-2003, 22:36 Post: 63992
F350Lawman



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 When are Tires unsafe

Had a similar situation with BF Goodrich on our conversion van at 25-30,000 miles they were not wearing well. No underinflation but they got eaten up on the outsides from the weight and sideways push of the high top van in cornering. I ended up cutting one down...and then it got worse.

I WILL never buy Goodrich tire but not because of the wear issues. These were OEM equipment on many the GM vans and suburbans around 1998- 2000? , literaly millions of vehicles and Goodrich cancelled the pattern just 2 years laterSo Sad. That meant everyone who owned one of those vehicles had to buy an entire new set if they blew out one tire!

REAL NICE, Being a customized van these were white outlined tires on sporty alloy rims I had to get 4 new tires. Turning them around for blackwalls would have looked out of place.

I have also heard that some of the tire manufacturers make OEM tires that are made out of very soft rubber compounds so you get a great ride and handling at the showroom but the tradeoff is they wear horribly????? It may be true some of these tires are not available other than as original equipment.






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 09-16-2003, 09:15 Post: 64019
AC5ZO

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 When are Tires unsafe

Tires can be engineered for a number of features. Racing tires for example are not designed as much for mileage as they are for optimal vehicle performance. That could mean high speed, good cornering, and low unsprung weight. Puncture resistance and 60K milage life don't even fit into the performance equation.

Pirelli makes some good pavement racing tires with very soft compounds. Actually all of the major manufacturers make such tires, but Pirelli markets theirs to sports car owners for street use. They may handle well, but you won't be impressed with the life. Years ago, I had a very fast RX7 and I used a little known tire called a Phoenix Stahlflex. These handled like the Pirelli but gave a 50K life. So don't rule out the little known brands if you have reason to think that they are OK. I used the same tires at track events and then drove the vehicle home.

I am certain that OEM tires are not the same as aftermarket replacements. The car manufacturers are going to press the tire suppliers for every last penny of savings. I was involved in supplying some equipment to Ford, so I can tell you about this. The major auto producers do want their vehicles to stand out, so if that involves lowering the tire pressure for soft ride or using a soft tire compound to improve handling, they will do it as long as they think it will have little impact on vehicle safety.

You have to be careful about holding a grudge against a manufacturer. If a company produces a generally good quality product, it is in their best interest to keep their customers. But, everyone screws up at one time or another. Firestone for example has made good tires for a long time. When they got involved with Ford, there were tire problems. Those problems could be due to a variety of reasons. Bridgestone (owner of Firestone) screwed up by having their foreign chairman deliver a statement that was condescending and accepted no blame. There was plenty of blame to go around. But, I would say that Firestone has had time to correct their problems and are probably producing pretty good tires right now. I don't have any data, but I know how business works. They would be foolish to have taken any other path.

I have had continuing good luck with Bridgestones (offroad tires), so I will continue to use them. If I get a bad batch sometime, the dealer will have no doubts about my dis-satisfaction. The chairman of Bridgestone may be a bonehead, but as far as I know they are still making a good tire. Friends of mine swear by BF Goodrich TAs and other brands. I have Goodrich TAs that came on my H2. When it is time to replace them, I will certainly consider Goodrich, but I may also go with Bridgestones.

The best advice that I can offer is to ask your friends if they are happy with their tires and search out other information on the Internet.






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 09-16-2003, 10:13 Post: 64025
kwschumm



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Speaking of Firestone, I know they CAN make a good tire the question is which ones are good?

Showing my age here, the Firestone 500 was a debacle pure and simple. Firestone screwed up and they know it. They replaced the 500 with the 721. The 721 was not a very reliable tire (occasional tread separations, belt slippages, etc), but at least the tread didn't go flying off whenever you hit 60 mph like it did on the 500. IIRC, the 721 was the top of the line Firestone passenger tire at the time.

The tire company I worked for sold a tire called the Gas Stretcher. This tire was made by Firestone and it was an incredibly good tire - very long life and I don't recall a single one coming back in for a workmanship claim. The Gas Stretcher was a far better tire than Firestone's best 721, so I have to wonder what they're thinking when they produce better tires for other companies than they do for themselves.






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 09-16-2003, 10:29 Post: 64026
AC5ZO

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 When are Tires unsafe

From what I understand, most tires are made by only a few companies. The smaller brands are often spec tires and are made by the larger companies with particular specifications on the construction and materials. These smaller brands could very well use better materials and construction methods even though they are made on the same or same type of large machines.

Cost of production and sales is the reason that there are differences. The smaller brands often have little or no advertising, so they can run with a thinner profit margin. All the major producers have huge advertising budgets, own their own stores and so forth.

My dad would always buy the cheapest tires he could find. These were generally the house brand at Montgomery Wards. Every year we would go out and buy a new set of bias ply cheap tires. I broke out of that mold and bought a set of radials and they lasted more than a year. When those tires lasted more than four years, I figured that it was actually cheaper to buy the best tires that you can find even though it costs more that first day. I have not bought a "cheap" tire since that time.

There are many brands out there that do well that I do not know much about. Toyo is one of them. My wife had Toyo tires on her truck when we met, and they did very well. So, you just have to keep an open mind, ask around, and check things out as best you can before you buy.






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 09-16-2003, 11:25 Post: 64036
Misenplace

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 When are Tires unsafe

Dennis, I bought a set of the tires you need to replace for my Bronco. Every time I drove it felt like I was driveing over speed bumps. I Put them on a spin balancer and every single tire was out of round. I talked to several tire guys and they all reccomended when buying light duty truck tires to try to stick with metric sizes rather than US sizes as the molds are made to tighter specs. Also if you have any cupping on the out side edges of your tires it is a indication of excessive speed or body roll when cornering. This is a problem in Michigan with our steep cornering highway ramps. I read recently that Cooper is currently the no 1 replacement tire on light duty trucks. One thing is certain. Once a wear pattern starts it wears more rapidly so I would definately replace them. Just inflateing will not stop a wear pattern that has already developed. In regard to the thick or thin/tire temp. This varyies by each model tire as much as manufacturer and you should spend some time looking at tires on the net so you can review the specs before you buy. As always keeping any tire inflated properly, balanced and rotated is the key to long life. When you buy new ones check each shops deals. Many places sell a $50 lifetime balance with tires. This is a great deal. Anyy shop you buy from should offer FREE rotations. Get them rotated every 6k and balanced at least every other rotation. Dave






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 09-16-2003, 11:55 Post: 64041
AC5ZO

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I agree with Dave's comments. I don't know much about Cooper tires, but they have been around a good while and I have not heard anything bad.

re: Out of Round tires...All of these that I have seen have been tread separations. The bad thing about this is that you can balance them at one speed, but they will still have a problem and the tread has often come loose at the belts, so they are dangerous to continue to use. The treads can become separated because of heat, underinflation, and a variety of other reasons. (including poor puncture plugs)






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