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Cliff
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1999-12-17          11196

Greetings All, Having seen a few post on plowing snow I was wondering if anybody had any good advice on mounting a snow plow to a loader. I came across a used Meyers plow with hyd. angle for $200.00 today and yes it even works. I am looking for ideas on how to best mount this in place of my bucket. This forum is a wealth of knowledge and I hope someone can help me out here. The blade is 6'6" wide so I think I may cut it down to 5', I'll try it the way it is first to see how I get along. Any information will be deeply appreciated....Thanks!Cliff

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Jim
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1999-12-18          11213

Hi Cliff,
I have mounted numerous jeep or 7 1/2' blades in the buckets of tractors. I prefer the meyers or western blades beacaues the fisher or diamond are too heavy hanging out of the bucket of the smaller tractors. The best way I found was to use 2 pieces of 1/4 - 3/8 3" or 4" angle iron. drill a 1/2 to 3/4 hole in them & weld into the bucket far enough in to allow angling bbut not to far out. then put a hook on the top of the bucket for the lift chain. leave enuff slack in chain to allow blade to float w/ the buckket about 6" off the ground.
as for the angling, you can use the dump spool on the loader valve for as you won't need it once you get the bucket level. b.o.l Jim ....

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Cliff
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1999-12-18          11220

Hello Jim,
Thanks for the impute. You answered my next question about using the angle. I was thinking a guy might have to split the hydraulics but I believe your idea would be much simpler. Thanks!

Cliff ....

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bo
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1999-12-18          11222

Jim- I think that you are putting snow blades onto buckets with the bucket still attached and the blade operates much as it does on a pickup. That is hydraulic lift and the wieght of the blade to lower. Clearence between the ground and the blade in the up position will only be about a foot or so unless the bucket is also lifted. The weight of the bucket with the blade attached then becomes pretty significant. If the bucket is removed and the blade is attached to a framework of angle iron ,similar to the frame that mounts under a pickup, then the even a smaller tractor should be able to handle the weight. I'm guessing the weight would be somewhere about 500-700-lbs. I think the lift capacity of a 4100 is about 700-800-. The advantage of eliminating the bucket is less weight,downpressure on the blade when not in float position and a usefull blade in high positions. There is a "sag" due to the weight of the blade stuck out so far,and this puts strain on the bucket curl hydraulic pistons. This is eliminate with a short piece of heavy chain between the blade frame and the center round cross bar on the loader arms. {jd 440 loader}a chain hook is welded to the cross bar and a keyhole slot is cut into the frame of the blade. The weight sag is significant and the chain is necessary or the curl hydraulic cylinders get hammered. Cliff didn't say his brand of tractor so it is tough to go any further. Either way verbal descriptions are never adequate. A picture or a example is almost a must. Once you see it, it's,"boy is that simple"type of thing. bo ....

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Cliff
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1999-12-18          11223

Bo- My tractor is a 1320 New Holland. The loader is a 7208 New Holland with a 68" bucket. With this large of a bucket weight is deffinitely an issue. In my case taking the bucket off would be much better. Don Denning suggested I find a quick attach mounting bracket and build from there. Does anyone know if New Holland offers such a thing or is there an after market source. I did not see anything in their options listing. Pictures would be great! Thanks!

Cliff ....

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Bob
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1999-12-18          11225

CURTIS SNOW PLOW FOR LOADER
I just priced a snow plow for attachment to a NH 7308 loader at a NH dealer.
78 inch was $1250. Remove the bucket and attach to loader frame. Looks like a
well designed unit, manual angle setup, springs for shock absorbing. ....

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Jim
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1999-12-19          11253

Hi Bo,
I appreciated your concerns. You'll notice I prefer the "lighter" snowplow blades/ your avg. 6' meyer jeep or light suv blade only weighs 290 to 400
lbs. as for the bucket, you mount the blade in the bucket as far as it will go w/out affecting the angle minimizing the leverage on the bucket. if the top of the bucket is weak, a 12'' section of angle or channel will improve this. weld hook on add'l steel. Have you ever tried plowing a icy, uneven, dirt road or driveway w/down pressure on your blade, & less wight on the frt. wheels?? not much fun & frustrating. the "floating blade" on a chain works better & is not as detrimental to the surface you are plowing. I have istalled over 35 of these setups most on compacts, several on TLB's,some on farm tractors w/ grat success ....

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Jim
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1999-12-19          11254

cliff, the Curtis blade is a good set-up, you can build your own w/ a used power angle blade for much less ....

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tom
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1999-12-19          11257

Bo: Thanks for the ideas about blade weight and buckets.

It sounds like attaching a blade onto a bucket might be a thing to avoid if
possible. Anyway, I never have figured out why anybody would want to give up
a loader bucket during the winter. Perhaps tropical sorts who never have to
stack snow have different ideas. ....

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Cliff
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1999-12-19          11273

Jim...The Curtis outfit is indeed slick. At present I will have $200.00 invested in the plow with power angle and perhaps another $100.00 or so for mounting. I am discovering that building things for your tractor is half the fun. I'll put the savings towards a new tiller!

Cliff ....

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Jim
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1999-12-19          11298

Hi Cliff, speaking of tillers... I distribute for 3 tiller Mfgrs. I have a special going on on leftover tillers, still in the crate. I distribute for KING KUTTER, Caroni, & SOVEMA. Big discounts on Sovema & Caroni, e-mail me w/your needs Jim ....

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Bill
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1999-12-20          11336

I just put the 5 foot curtis on my loader arms for a kubota 7300. Tried it out today a bit in the freezing rain we are getting here right now. The question I have is do I need weight in the rear of the tractor to offset this heavy blade that sticks out 1 foot or two past my loader bucket (giving it more leverage against my fat butt)-The blade seems like it weighs about as much as my loader does when its full of gravel (maybe about 400 lbs or so)- remember this is a small tractor. I have not tried raising the blade very high but I suspect if I do I will quickly realize I need weight. Is this how I find out? (albeit slowly!). ....

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Carl in VA
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1999-12-20          11338

Cliff, I mounted an ST-90 Myers plow on the bucket of my Ford 1710 using the Meyer mount from a Ford pick-up. A couple of things I learned... Mount the blade as close to the front of the bucket as possible so the blade can float in the same manner as it would when mounted to a truck. When you mount it this way it makes your rig very long, so if you have a tight spot to get in it may not work. I used the electric pump that Meyers makes to operate the power angle.

I recently bought a Kubota L3410 and this time I am mounting the blade on the back plate of a set of forks. This will shorten the rig by alsmost two feet. I am also going to use regular hydraulic remote valves for the power angle and do away with the electric pump. The suggestion of using the roll cylinders hydraulic lines would work as well. Good Luck. ....

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Cliff
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1999-12-20          11339

Carl...Thanks for the impute. I think I am going to remove the bucket and have a bracket made that I can mount the setup directly to the loader arms. This should keep things nice and short. I think I am also going to have the welding shop fabricate a way to make my bucket a quick mount. Looking for ideas on this if anybody has any. After looking at some skid-steer setups I don't think it will be to difficult and make the loader more versatile. I really think the manufactures are missing the boat here. Just think of all the quick attach type attachments they could market. Thanks again for the impute!

Cliff
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Ross
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1999-12-20          11342

Cliff I made my 955 bucket a quick tatch by cutting the brackets off the bucket so the geometry stayed the same. Then I reinforced the brackets ,I built sockets on the bucket that were tapered to simplify hook up. then I made forks that I had the pieces cut and bent at a local fab shop then I just welded the pieces together. the forks had the same tapered sockets to accept the loader and were pinned on the bottom across the back of the bucket. worked great and cost 200 for the whole deal JD wants 1000 just for the forks.I originaly had the forks in front of the bucket but no visability or capacity so I cut the bucket off the tractor with less than 50 hours on it.It was worth the effort and time to make this change. I hope it helps ....

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Cliff
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1999-12-20          11343

Ross,

Thanks for the impute. I am thinking this shouldn't be a difficult deal. Thanks again!

Cliff ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-12-21          11352

This thread started my gears turning.. Reading the posts, it seems appearent with a bit of common sense that the loader blade creates a greater pendulum effect on the tractor. Having a 4100 this is obviously a concern for me. I'm not sure if they are still made or in use, but I remember seeing blades which used plastic or fiberglass for most of the upper blade portion.. Obviously supported by a regular steel frame, like any other blade has.. I remember thinking it was a toy after hearing the word Plastic, but the spec's for it said that it was just as capable as any metal blade snow plow without the weight...Never saw one used, but I did see one at a show and it looked heavy duty. I think it was originally designed for Toyota/Nissan trucks...Plus side to all of this is, I doubt my 4100 could put the same amount of stress on the blade..that a Toyota could. They were also made for full side trucks BTW.
On the other note, I've seen enough shade tree botch jobs in my life, which the owner brags about how great it is..but during the "Showing" the excuses of "its still got a few bugs" or "Well, I gotta still gotta work on that..its no big deal"...always seems to come out... IMHO, Unless your more of a tinker/fix it kind of guy than a user type guy...call an outfit like Curtis for a well designed unit. Or at least thats what I plan to do next year. Of course, my opinion stems from experience with people who own a welder but couldn't put a good weld together if their life depended on it. ....

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Ross
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1999-12-21          11357

I couldn't agree more with you more, people with some idea and a welder can make a mess of things but If a situation is studied enough and the person is comfotable enough with their ability they should try things , a mind is a terrible thing to waste. with the cost of some things you can make two things yourself for the price of one. just take your time to understand how the thing works and why others built theirs that way and go from there,alot of manufactured items,IMHO,ecspecialy short line stuff are,"universal" wich IMHO means won't fit anything realy well and can be improved on but are a good place to start.
Case in point, JD loaders are a well built design but I like the Cub's quick hitch better. A blend of the two would be perfect. ....

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Randy
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1999-12-21          11362

I just finished a project doing the same thing you are talking about. I simply made the brakets out of 3" angle with a piece of split pipe at the top to engage the solid rod on the booms. This design actually allows easy building of attachments since you dont have to worry about aligning and drilling or welding bushings for the cylinder/boom pivots. I also made mine angle hydraulicly by using the 3rd scv for the mower deck. Also, you will definately need skid shoes or you will have major scalping due to the weight of the blade and loader.
If you have any questions let me know and I will try to help.
Randy ....

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Cliff
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1999-12-21          11364

MLS...You hit the nail on the head there! I wish I had the time to learn the skills of a good welder. Learned a long time ago that you can wind up spending twice as much time and money by half-assing something. One needs to realize the extent of his/hers capabilities, it will save you money and aggravation in the long run. On the point of the Poly-Plow, I think that's what they called it I believe. One of our local funeral homes has one on a 1/2 ton Dodge and it works pretty slick. I believe they guaranteed it not to break in the plow area...using a little common sense that is. They have gotten along with it great!


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Roger L.
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1999-12-21          11379

I want to encourage everyone to learn to weld. It is very easy to learn....a couple of hours of instruction are more than enough to teach anyone to make perfectly usable welds in steel. I have taught a fair number of people how to weld, and I think they were all surprised at how easy it was.
....

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tom
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1999-12-22          11380

Yep, second on Roger's view. I'm a self taught gas welder, and arc is supposed to be easier. I was welding away within hours. Been thinking about getting my
regulators going again after quite a few years.

Easy it is (and fun too) However, it's probably a good idea to stick with orntimental stuff for awhile. Also probably a good idea to eventually go into the subject deeper. I am aware that I can lay a bead, but I also know I have little design knowledge. I know that mild steel bends and welds break, but I can only guess what sorts of welds are adequate for a given application. I do know enough to stay away from cast casings, alloy steel, ROSP's, fuel tanks and gas pumps. Hopefully I know enough to keep out of trouble. I did, unfortunately, witness a tragedy cause by a welded tie rod. The image, which I still have after decades, keeps me real careful.

There was a thread on another board which contained comments about crankshaft
bearings burnt out due to using a welder on a tractor without disconnecting
the battery. Suppose I can see how it could happen, but that, I don't know about. ....

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wade
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1999-12-22          11383

Tom, the bearing failure you mentioned when someone you know welded on a tractor probably did not happen from the battery energy. When you do not clamp the ground for arc welding close to, or on the piece you are welding, the tractor becomes the conductor. In the case you mention, the engine was probably the conductor with arcing(welding) happening anywhere there are small spaces between where the ground is attached, and the welding is being done. People have completely fused entire engines and transmissions in this fashion. This can be avoided easily but is very expensive when it occurs. Wade ....

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regl
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1999-12-22          11385

Roger.
What kind of equipment would you recommend for someone starting out.I have read somewhere that wire feed are much easier to weld with.regl. ....

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Carl in VA
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1999-12-22          11398

Cliff, If you want to spend the money (about $600.00) several manufacturers make a quick mount set-up for front buckets. It requires the purchase of a piece to mount to the loader arms and a matching piece for each implement. It makes changing buckets to loader forks etc. quick and easy. Carl ....

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Cliff
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1999-12-22          11401

Carl, I had been searching for something along this line but had not come up with anything. If you know of some site or manufacturers where I might look I would appreciate it.

NEW DEVELOPMENT: I stopped by my local welding shop today to see about getting my snow plow mounted to my loader. The guy that owns the place said he has done some but really didn't recommend it. He said that to many times people that have this set up have sprung there loaders this way. Yes, they all had the trip springs and skid shoes. His suggestion was to make a quick attach setup to the frame utilizing the hydraulics for the loader. He just finished building one for a guy that you simply pull 2 pins and it was off. No risk of damage to the loader this way and if you needed the loader you could quickly de-tatch and put the loader on. I am going to go look at this set up and see what the guy thinks of it. Might be a good way to go as a guy could do some "light" grader work also. What do you guy's think of this? Thanks again!

Cliff
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Roger L.
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1999-12-22          11412

Regl, I'd say that the best welding machine to start with is the one that fascinates you the most. Comparing the basic welders: the torch, arc welder, wire feed welder, and TIG, The thing to keep in mid is that they all do the same thing: they use heat to melt metal and cause it to flow together. And if the process itself doesn't add a little extra metal to help form the welding bead then you do it yourself with a rod in your free hand. That's about all there is to it. There is no doubt that the oxy/acetylene torch (smoke wrench) is the most versatile - it will cut, anneal, harden, braze, and solder as well as weld almost anything. There are even odd-ball rods like hard-facing rod for it. If a guy is a natural handy-man and mechanic then it is the tool of choice - but he probably already has one. And it does take more thought to master. Welding with Tig is a lot like the torch, but better in every way. Tig is the only reliable way to weld weird metals like aluminum. Of all the methods TIG is probably the best at pure welding, but it is very expensive to buy. Best to learn on something else.
Wire feed is great fun because it is sort of automatic and very fast. Yes, it is probably easiest to learn. And perhaps easiest to make bad welds with because it goes so fast and you don't have as much control over the welding puddle. But it is loads of fun. The problem with wire feed is that some of the machines on the market now don't have sufficient power (heat) to make good welds. I am of the opinion that what makes welding easy to learn is having LOTS of extra heat when you need it. Although a master can make a safe weld with a minimum of amperage, a novice stands a better chance if he can turn up the power - particularly on steel 3/16" and thicker. This means 180-200 amps minimum (you can always turn them down for light work), and the little fluxed+wire feed welders generally don't have that much power. The wirefeed welders that use a bottle of inert gas instead of flux are the real Cadillacs of the breed. Unfortunately they are several times as expensive as the fluxed wire type.
Which leaves us with the old standby: the AC/DC arc welder. Found in every mechanical shop and in every farmer's machinery barn. Inexpensive and bulletproof. Used ones a dirt cheap. They are typically capable of decent welding power when plugged into to a 220 volt appliance outlet, and will do just about every job imaginable if one has had the foresight to buy the appropriate rod. Also noisy, dirty, smokey, and capable of really pretty or real ugly welded? joints.


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tom
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1999-12-23          11413

Fortunately, nobody I know, just some comments on a board.

One comment was in the context of: 'Some people put the ground clamp on a wheel.' I can see how fusing an engine could happen even though, in theory, you might expect that cases and frames would provide enough low resistance paths to
protect oil covered engine parts. Guess the idea is to clamp real close to the welding site.

The 'disconnect the battery' thing came from another comment. Couldn't figure that one out, but disconnecting the battery seems like a good idea anyway. Even a small chance of getting a high current flow through a battery would not be good. ....

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Carl in VA
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1999-12-23          11423

Cliff, Ask about quick attach systems at your dealer. i.e. Woods uses them on all of their larger loaders and offers them on the smaller loaders. Carl ....

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Cliff
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1999-12-23          11424

Carl....I'll have to locate a woods dealer. My New Holland dealer sell Westendorf loaders. They only offer the quick-tatch on the larger ones. Thanks and Happy Holidays everyone!

Cliff in Missouri. ....

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