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 07-14-2009, 15:16 Post: 164046
hardwood

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 Pole barn vs frame building

After living in the same neighborhood for almost 50 yrs. you watch what happens to buildings after they age and start to need maintinence.
I built or helped build a good number of pole sheds over the years in the neighborhood, some mine some for others, and also helped build or built myself several frame sheds with a frost footing.
My observation now is that the 30-40 pole sheds are in sad shape, poles rotted off, etc. a couple have even been torn down.
The frame sheds also need maintenence at that age, shingles, paint, door repair, etc.
So my point of all this is that the last shed I had built three years ago was a turn key job, I can't climb and all that anymore. The price between a steel clad pole shed and a frame shed on a frost footing were within a few dollars of the same cost.
Now down to my final point. A pole shed at 30-40 yrs is pretty well shot, a frame shed at the same age with some maintenece is good for another 30-40 yrs. I just won't build another pole shed when the cost is the same and the life of a frame shed is double. Frank.






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 07-14-2009, 16:28 Post: 164048
earthwrks

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 Pole barn vs frame building

I agree with you Franky. I echoed that regarding the recent post by the guy from Alberta, Canada.

I built a really nice pole barn for a couple using the standard poles. BUT, the building inspector would not let me just cement the poles in the ground and later dig a 42" x 8" rat wall between the posts then pour a slab floor. No. He had me trench out 42" x 12" continuous footer then suspend and brace the poles in the trench---PIA!--then make a continuous pour. From the start the inspector asked why they just didn't have me build a typical stud frame building. The couple is in their 80's and just loved the look of a pole barn. And that's what they got.






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 07-14-2009, 16:28 Post: 164049
Murf



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 Pole barn vs frame building

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardwood | view 164046
A pole shed at 30-40 yrs is pretty well shot, a frame shed at the same age with some maintenece is good for another 30-40 yrs. I just won't build another pole shed when the cost is the same and the life of a frame shed is double. Frank.



I'd argue that point Frank, to me it's like saying something along the lines of "All North American cars are junk.".

I've got a pole shed up at the farm that my grandfather and his father built during the first world war. It's still just as solid as it ever was.

I suspect it has more to do with things like soil conditions, local weather, construction techniques, etc. than it does about style of construction.

Oh, and before someone pipes in about wood in contact with soil, there's a log building at my gal's parents cottage that sits on 4 massive Hemlock sleepers (logs laying directly on the ground), it's a little out of level, but was built in about the 1850's. It's absolutely still usable as is.

Best of luck.






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 07-14-2009, 20:56 Post: 164053
hardwood

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Murf;
I won't get in a shouting match over building design but either you guys up north keep all the good poles and send the poor ones down to us or what I don't know what the factor is but. I challenge you to find a pole shed in my part of the world that is 30-40 yrs. old that doesn't have most if not all the poles rotted off at ground level. They can be replaced but talk about a nasty job especially if any cement was involved, I know I've did it.
All you have to do is drive past a farmstead with an older looking colored steel pole shed and look at the eveline fron a distance, if it is uneven and wavy you can bet your boots the poles are rotted off. Frank.






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 07-14-2009, 21:03 Post: 164054
earthwrks

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 Pole barn vs frame building

Murf ol' boy I beg to differ. I dismantled two circa 1830-50's log cabins last year. They were built as you described. All the wood in contact with the ground which was yellow sand was rotted. In some cases there was nothing left. I believe the wood was oak.






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 07-15-2009, 10:17 Post: 164059
Murf



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Frank, I did say I suspected soil conditions or such could be the culprit, and if every one in your area is bad, then that's likely it. But yes, you caught on, we do keep the good stuff up here. Laughing out loud

Jeff, if the logs you encountered were Oak I could certainly believe they were gone bad by then, up here they used a lot of Hemlock where Cedar wasn't available for those kinds of applications. The high sap content, which is also very acidic, makes a great natural preservative.

There was a story in the news up here recently that a developer was digging up a big piece of former industrial land that used to be (prior to dredging and filling) waterfront lands on Lake Ontario, in excavating they hit the remains of a wharf that had been buried in the filling operation ages ago.

The wood (large Hemlock pilings and beams) is solid enough that a local guy with a portable bandsaw mill is cutting into lumber for furniture and stuff, it is solid as the day it was cut well over a 100 years ago.

Best of luck.






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 07-15-2009, 13:04 Post: 164068
hardwood

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Murf;
I'll have to back water a bit here, the very first pole shed that I helped my father build when I was in high school in the mid fiftys was built with genuine round creosote poles. I burned all summer from handling those with bare arms and hands.
Those poles did not rot off, but any square supposedly creosote or worse the green treated ones we used after that were basicly junk, and our soil conditions were likely the reason, don't know.
That first shed with the round poles has been torn down to make way for a bigger shed, I asked the owner if he would sell me those poles, but he said no.
I guess the reason for banning the genuine creosote was for some cancer reason, so far I haven't had cancer but my brains have tured to mush, the creosote must be to blame.






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 07-15-2009, 13:04 Post: 164069
hardwood

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Murf;
I'll have to back water a bit here, the very first pole shed that I helped my father build when I was in high school in the mid fiftys was built with genuine round creosote poles. I burned all summer from handling those with bare arms and hands.
Those poles did not rot off, but any square supposedly creosote or worse the green treated ones we used after that were basicly junk, and our soil conditions were likely the reason, don't know.
That first shed with the round poles has been torn down to make way for a bigger shed, I asked the owner if he would sell me those poles, but he said no.
I guess the reason for banning the genuine creosote was for some cancer reason, so far I haven't had cancer but my brains have tured to mush, the creosote must be to blame.






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 07-15-2009, 13:36 Post: 164072
hardwood

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Sorry about the double post, mush brains I guess.






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 07-15-2009, 14:19 Post: 164073
Murf



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No worries Frank.

If you look in the fine print on the left, just under your name there is the words "edit | Delete" if you click on the 'Delete' word you can remove the double.

Funny thing about the Creosote, it's only banned for us regular folks, the railways aren't affected by the ban. Something tells me they have a bunch more of it in use than we do!!

That green-treated stuff is junk. One of my friends has a big fence & deck company near here. He says they have to leave the wood strapped in a bundle until the moment they are ready to use it or it turns into a pile of twisted crap. He has the lumber yard band it into 3 groups, the framing, the decking, and the stairs and railings, that way he can leave all but what he needs right then securely bound up.

I read an article about it and the results of a study were that they were treating it when it was way to wet, as a result the soggy wood couldn't absorb much treatment, pressure or no pressure.

Best of luck.






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