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 | chrisscholz
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 104 iowa 
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2005-05-22 111378
We are building a 30'x50' insulated pole barn. The main area will be concrete. I plan on using it for car storage, a work-shop, and the kids can play basketball there in the winter (vaulted trusses).
I want to keep it about 50-60 degrees in the winter. Should I install a propane infrared overhead tube heater, or insulate the slab and run radiant floor heating? I don't have to heat all 1500 sq ft, and thought about in-floor heat on just half, and use a thermal break to separate heated slab from unheated. But am worried about the long term cost to keep that floor heated all winter. Would it be better to just use infrared as needed when occupied? Would I just buy a hot water heater to hook up to the in-floor heat with a thermostat?
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa 
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2005-05-23 111385
My heated shop is realitvly small 24 x 26, but if I were to do it over I'd probebly use the same system installed about 25 yrs. ago. I don't remember the exact amounts, but under the slab we put 2-3 in. of foam board then put radiant heaters just below the ceiling, (about 9 ft.). It seems to not cost a lot to keep it at about 50 degrees, and have had no matinence problems yet. Liquid heated floors are getting popular and they may have some advantages over what I did, you should check it out. I'm sure ther are folks on the board who have them and perhaps they will share their experience. Best of luck. Frank. ....
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| havoctec
Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 56 Minnesota
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2005-05-23 111391
If you want to keep it heated all winter then in floor is the way to go. If you just want to heat it when it is in use then radiant heat is the way to go. Our shed is 26x40 with in floor using an electric on demand hot water heater. It is on an off peak elctric meter ($.04/kw) and it costs about $300 to keep it at 50 deg. all winter.
I would stay away from the forced air gas units. JMHO. ....
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| pkzochow
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 18 Michigan
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2005-05-23 111420
In floor heating would be the way to go. Do you have access to wood for heating? I have a neighbor that built a 34x60 barn and a 3,000 square foot house and is all heated off one of the outdoor wood burners, it could heat twice that with out any issues.
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| chrisscholz
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 104 iowa
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2005-05-24 111473
I thought about outdoor wood furnaces, but work too many hours to be cutting firewood.
What about the on-demand electric water heater idea? Never heard of these for in-floor heat. Wouldn't a simple gas or electric water heater be better? What is the advantage? I do want to keep my utilities low. I am still leaning towards radiant floor heating in part of the shop's floor. I assume with decent insulation that this radiant heat would help the entire shop stay 50-60 degrees. ....
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| havoctec
Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 56 Minnesota
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2005-05-24 111482
Yes you can use a regular gas hat water heater. Everyone that I have talked with says don't use an electric tank hot water heater. I think the problem has to do with recovery time and element longevity. I went with a tankless heater that is designed for in floor heat because we do not have anything else that is gas and didn't want an LP tank sitting beside my shed. I attach a link, hopefully it works.
If you want to heat the shed all winter I think the in floor is the most economical. followed by the radiant heat. The nice thing about radiant heat is that you can shut it off and it does not take long to warm up your building again. Not so with in floor.
If you do go with in floor I would urge you to do the whole building. You can do two seperate zones so that you don't heat the whole bilding but you will still have the capability if you want it latter. It's dang hard to get that tubing into hard concrete!! ....
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| daveinnh
Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 30 central NH
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2005-05-24 111492
Although we don't have a barn yet, our timber-framer provided a 1st floor radiant slab and a basement slab (for my workshop). The basement slab is insulated w/ 2" blue-board beneath; the radiant tubing and components are supplied by "Wirsbo".
You should speak to a local plumber how has done this work before, has the (radiant) tools, and is comfortable in working w/ radiant. I keep the cellar at about 61 deg. - it's cool initially, but once you start working, it becomes almost hot. ....
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 | AnnBrush
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 463 Troy OH
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2005-05-25 111539
On demand water heaters are common in Africa. Over the whole year they are more efficient than regular tank heaters (they dont keep a reseviour of water hot). However they are very ineffiecient when actually heating water. To verify this you only need to look at the venting requirements for these units. It's kind of like the BTUS to heat a gallon of water is WAY higher for a on-demand heater vs a regular heater but then you have no BTUS needed to keep it hot so the turtle passes the hare and wins the race. In this case a tankless heater would be a disaster for heating water to provide building heat since I assume there would be a almost constant demand and therefore a constant operation of the tankless heater and subsequent efficiency loss. ....
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| dklopfenstein
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 125 Southern Indiana
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2005-05-25 111542
I have floor heat in my 38x44 shop and heat an apartment above it (about 1,000 square feet)with an 85% efficient boiler. In the shop below, I have four overhead doors and other windows/doors. I heat the shop to about 63 and the apartment to 72 all winter long and only have to fill-up my 500 gallon propane tank 1x per year. We like the heat and love the efficiency. You will never regret this system even though it is more $ initially. Indiana winters can be rough at times so it is a good "test area" for others. ....
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| havoctec
Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 56 Minnesota
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2005-05-26 111551
The on demand gas heaters may be less efficient but the electric units are as close to 100% efficient as you can get. There is no heat loss through a vent with electric and any heat that is lost goes into the building.
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| farmer
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 18 Lewiston, MN
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2005-05-26 111570
Have you considered using corn burners? I have an insulated pole shed (160x60) that I heat using 2 corn burners. I put 3 bushels of corn in each and they heat for 2 days-the building stays at around 60 degrees. These units, on high, will kick out 170,000 BTU each. So, if I need to warm up the building quick - I just turn them up. Heats up real quick.
Best thing about it is that when my fuel supply (dried corn) is getting low - I just call up the local feed mill. They deliver a load for $10 ... and corn is under $2/bushel.
The units which I use are Golden Grain out of Colorado. This is the 4 year that I have had them - no problems... ....
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| brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1288 Wisconsin 
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2005-05-29 111687
I have an on demand electric water heater in my place up north. It is the total cats behind!!! I love it. Only takes up about 14" by 3" and works incredible. We love it when we get there at 11pm on a Fri. night and all five of us want to take a shower. Nothing to drain in the winter before leaving (I heat it year round in the house so it would not matter anyway). DOWN side to what you would want it for though.
On the same lines of what Ann said. When it is running (or ON) you get dizzy watching the electric meter run!!! Put it this way, it needs to be on a 70amp breaker!!!! When all three of the elements are turned on ( what ever your demand amount for hot water determines the number of elements that turn on) that meter in cookin!!!
I would think if you plan to use your garage a few times a year it may be ok but would look elsewhere if your use will be higher. No, I take that back, I would look elsewhere anyway for a garage heater. The infloor heat is a awesome system just I would not want the electric bill with an on demand unit installed.
My 02. anyway ....
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