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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2007-03-16          140464

Most of us have seen the TV ads where a Tundra pickup pulls a trailer up a steep grade (a see-saw) and then barrels down hill and locks the brakes up just before the end of the ramp nearly going over a cliff.

The voice over says, "It's tough pushing 10,000 lbs up a steep grade". Myth: Toyota would like the audience to believe the trailer is 10,000 lbs. Fact: It's a 5,000 lb truck pulling a 5,000 lb trailer. Many of us think this is a slight of hand and misleading creating an image with the public that this truck is rated to pull 10,000 lbs and this is the performance to expect!

Then, on the way down the grade, the camera zooms in on the brakes as the vehicles comes to a screeching halt just prior to diving over the end of the ramp. Next time you view the ad, look for the tiny type below the picture. It indicates the trailer is equipped with electric brakes. Fact is the electric brakes stop the trailer-not the truck. Again, a slight of hand!

They do advertise that they have bigger brake pads. They need them because it is a heavier truck. The stopping distance of all trucks in this range of vehicles is nearly identical.

Toyota does have a 6 speed transmission for improved fuel economy. Actually their mileage rating is about 2 mpg less than Chevy and Ford.

Another feature option with the Tundra is to get a V-8 you automatically get a 4.3:1 rear end ratio (no other options) which sucks more fuel. Ford, GM and Dodge offer optional rear end ratios.


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DRankin
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2007-03-16          140466

Hmmmm..... couldn't help but notice that NOWHERE in the Toyota sales brochure or on-line do you find the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight(GCVW).

So yesterday I found a sales chat thing on the Toyota web page and posed the question. It took them 1/2 hour to cough up the answer....... 16,000 GCVW.

Translation: 5600 pound curb weight(4x4 extra cab), plus the fabled 10,200 pound trailer leaves you just enough weight left over for a 200 pound driver.

Whoops! I forgot to add in the weight of the 26 gallons of gas.......... Lets see...26x6 equals.......

Are there any 44 pound truck drivers out there?

And throw that sandwich and coffee out the window! You're overweight!

It is exactly what they call it in the sales brochure, a powerful 1/2 ton truck. ....

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hardwood
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2007-03-16          140468

A few years ago Chevy had an ad showing the "Powerfull new Silverado" apearing to pull a completly stuck in the mud full size backhoe out of the mud hole, "WOW" what a truck. I found an 800 number that surprisingly got me to the head shed of the adveretising dept. I asked the fellow seemingly in charge if he was at all familliar with a backhoe, well no, he had saw them working along the road, so I kind of rambled on about how anyone who had spent more the an hour running a backhoe could have got himself out of the mudhole without anyones help in the first place, "OH I did'nt know that" says the top dog exec. Then I kind of entered the fact that a hoe of that size probably weighed 18 to 20 thousand pounds, belly down in the mud that nobody would be dumb enough to belive that the mighty Silverado would pull it out, finally after a big half hour of discussion the man did get straight up with me and admitted that their strategy was to use any means of deception to build the ego of the UNINFORMED buyer into believing the Silverado was so powerfull that it really would pull the backhoe out of the mudhole. I've wondered since if that man still has a job there if he would openly admit to me a Mr. Frank Nobody from Nowhere ville, USA what their basic sales strategy really was with that ad. Anyhow back to the Toyota thing, again another big company trying to fool the uninformed portion of the pickup buying public into believeing this truck can really do this. Worst part is some fool probably will buy a Toyota and actualy try some of their stunts and end up in the cemetary. My sermon for the day. Frank. ....

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yooperpete
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2007-03-17          140481

Chevy has what I think is a 3500 duallie Duramax diesel with Allison trannie pulling a freight train in response to the Tundra ad boasting their Silverado "Truck of the Year" award. Where does it end and what is the public to believe as "truth". A close friend of mine has a Tocoma and was told it is a 1/2 ton truck. I told him it is a mid-size truck at best and he got all mad at me. Salesman told him it is a full size 1/2 ton truck. When I pulled my truck beside his,and told him this is full size he became aware of the difference. Anyway, he's from California! ....

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cutter
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2007-03-18          140520

I won't go into politics, but if you look around, it's easy to see that uniformed people tend to believe anything they see or hear on TV.

People trying to sell something simply take advantage of that fact. Do I agree with it, of course not. Yet people need to take responsibility for themselves. As was already mentioned here, call, question and probe for the truth.
....

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Iowafun
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2007-03-21          140603

I guess I just don't really believe anything I see advertised anymore. Too much slight of hand and purposely tricky lingo is used. But not everyone does research like I do when it comes to big ticket purchases.

A 5,000 lbs trailer with electric brakes? So they got pretty cheesy with that one. Don't get me wrong, but the electric brake thing is very misleading especially if the stock truck isn't equipped with a brake controller. I think if anyone pushed it with a letter from a lawyer, Toyota would back down. ....

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kthompson
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2007-03-21          140611

I did not believe the see saw ended over a canyon. Think you have combined two ads. (If that is a true picture the driver must be nuts.) I drive a Tundra and have had Ford and Dodge I would never think that anyone's ad is anything more than to get your interest. How about Chevy saying the reason their 1/2 can pull so much is the boxed material used to make the frame. Wow, no drive train needed, just a great frame. I think all reserve the right for specs to change without any notice.


As to what is a full size 1/2 ton, there may be Federal Specs on that. I know my 1/2 ton Dodge had a much larger bed than the 1/2 ton Ford or Chevy of the same year and was 3 or more inches wider in the bed and cab. So were they not a full 1/2 ton?

The only tv I ever beleive was the General Lee making the jumps on the Dukes of Haazard and it never bent... ....

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yooperpete
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2007-04-02          140948

One of my friends from work found out this weekend how not to haul stuff. He was trying to haul a small payloader on a tandem trailer with his 1500 Silverado while having it strapped down with (2) 10,000 lb. straps.

He had several misconceptions. He thought the payloader only weighed about 12,000 lbs.

My thoughts are: I have yet to see a payloader that "light" yet. Never haul anything like that without connecting and using trailer brakes. Never use anything less than a 3/4 ton truck for stuff like that. Always use several big chains and load binders and a couple of straps for extra security if you are a rookie.

Ford says they can tow more than Chevy as was stated above because of a box frame. Ford also says you need two Chevies to tow 11,300 lb.

Anyhow they don't know for sure what went wrong first. They went up a very steep drive before getting on the highway. It(payloader) may have slipped back some shifting the load. They heard a hissing noise on the way up. Truck tires were spinning as they crested the steep drive.

At less than 30mph and driving about 1/8 mile on the highway, the trailer came around causing them to do a 360. The trailer flipped, ripped the bumper and hitch off, bent the truck frame, broke the pendle hitch and a trailer tire got flat somehow. A big tree stopped the truck from going down a shallow ravine. The payloader ended up down the (hill) ravine on its side about 15-20 yards down. No body got hurt and it only took two wreckers to pull it out.

My feeling is the truck manufacturer's are pushing too hard to outdue each other while using 1/2 ton trucks. People should be forced to have training before being allowed to pull heavy stuff down the road. ....

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brokenarrow
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2007-06-03          142704

Yooper
Yep, I agree! Last week I hauled my wifes town an country van. I have a ext. cab 1500 chevy 4wd. I have a 1K trailer with brakes on all 4 wheels. I would nver consider (safely) hauling something even as light as that, with out brakes. (in the right condition and traffic load I would though)
I haul my TC40 loader and brush hog with thew same truck.
Both of those (the van and the tractor) pull very very nice, infact I commented on how little I could tell I have the van behind me.
On the other hand, I hauled some electric pole a few years ago. They hung out and over the back of the trailer about 6 feet. I beleieve I had 2-3 too many on there too. At 55, it pulled decent but anything faster was very risky. I could of lost it faster than you could shake a toy poodle off your leg! Positioning the load plays a large role in what and how you haul anything.
A payloader???? 1500 chevey??? Cmon, I cant beleive it had any problems!! Ehemmmmmm Do I here a Darwin Nomination? ....

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ihookem
Join Date: Jul 2006
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2007-09-14          145751

For a few grand more than a Tundra you can get any diesel and the 3/4 ton to boot. Plus fuel mileage is better. I know undras are good but I really think they are over priced for a truck that's a 1/2 ton at best. The big three are at war with diesels and are putting out awsum trucks. ....

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nosteiner4me
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2007-09-14          145755

Question as to trailer and brakes. I have been using a small tiltable 4 by 8 trailer since 1983 and getting a new jd 2520 and will need a much bigger trailer. Looking at the 16ft trailers with 2 axels but will i need the trailer brakes? The 2520 will have 72mmm and 61"cx loader and ballast box. I drive a 2007 chevy tahoe LTZ. I never had any use for trailer brakes but I am older now and pay more attention to safety. This truck maybe the same weight as a tundra. thx ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
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2007-09-14          145757

Nosteiner4me,

You'll have to check with the laws of your State. Some States require brakes on any trailer. Some States require brakes on trailers over a certain weight.

In any case, any person who plans to travel across country while towing a trailer could find themselves in a bit of trouble when entering a more restrictive State.

Here's a list of the various State trailer brake laws, from 2006.

See link below.

Joel ....


Link:   State by State Trailer Brake Laws -- 2006

 
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AC5ZO
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2007-09-15          145759

I have towed my tractor on a trailer with and without the brakes. Get the brakes. It does not really matter what the state requires. When you tow a load that approaches the weight of your truck, you need trailer brakes. They improve safety and make towing a lot more pleasant. When some idiot does something stupid in front of you, you don't have to worry if your truck brakes alone will do the job.

re: How about Chevy saying the reason their 1/2 can pull so much is the boxed material used to make the frame.

Actually this was a Ford commercial for their 1/2 ton. The Chevy half ton is a C section beam. But, what is really interesting is that many of the larger Fords such as their Super Duty (1 ton I think) use a C section frame, but I am sure that Ford won't point this out. I don't know if this has always been the case and there may be some larger trucks that have boxed frames also. Its just not consistent.

The full size 1/2 ton trucks seem like a pretty good value, but for my money; if you are towing a 3/4 or 1 ton size is quite a bit better. I have been using 3/4 ton trucks for the past 15 years. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2007-09-15          145763

I don't know if the Govt. truth in advertising thing came into play with this or not, but the mileage claims in the sales literature are a lot closer to real world than they used to be. My example is my 07 Silverado half ton, smallest V8, automatic, 4X4, standard cab. Sometimes when I'm in a hurry I forget, but 90% of the time I check the mileage on every fillup. I traded in an 04 Silverado basicly identical except it was a five speed manual. After almost 10K miles the 07 is a defintie 2 MPG gain over the 04. One tank did top 21 by a whisker on a 300 mile trip, but normal short trip is 18.5/19 average over the long term. Pulling even a medium duty trailer takes it down to 15/16. So my point being they didn't fib to me on this one, I hope the next pickup gains another 2 or more MPG. Overall the best pickup I've ever owned. Frank. ....

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kwschumm
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2007-09-15          145771

By and large most trucks are getting lighter. Thinner sheet metal, thinner glass and lighter materials translate to better mileage. Part of it is improved mechanical efficiency and better gearing but a lot of it has to come from weight savings. Frank, do you know the vehicle weights of your old and new Silverado? ....

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jbjpam
Join Date: Jun 2007
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2007-09-15          145778

This is an interesting thread.
My son graduated from Michigan State U. a year and a half ago.
Could not get a job in the car Capital of the world (Michigan) but Toyota hired him for body assembly engineering.
He could get a very good discount on a new Tundra or any car he wanted. (He worked setting up the Tundra plant in Texas and starting the new line in Indiana)
He took his Toyota income and bought a 2007 Silverado.
He believes it is much more comfortable and advanced over the Tundra. Fit and finish is equal in quality and could see no reason to buy the Toyota over the Chevy. He also wanted to keep his money in the US. He has been very happy with it so far.
I just cant figure out why we have to tow the boat to lake Michigan with my truck every time??? Maybe it's the cost of gas. (driver pays) ....

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hardwood
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2007-09-15          145782

KW, No I don't know the weight of either pickup. Mine is the last of the old design 07 Silverado, so their new series 07's likely have a lighter weight by the methods you describe. A friend of mine has the new design 07 with the engine that shuts off part of the cylinders under light load. He has never bragged or complained about his mileage, so I really don't have any feedback. One of his main concerns when buying a new pickup is to have the heaviest duty four door with every possible bell and whistle that Chevy can come up with, so he is hauling around a lot of power consuming do dads that I don't have, or even want, mine still has crank windows, but it gets me there just fine anyhow. Frank. ....

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BobRooks
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2008-12-03          158331

Well, I have an '05 Tundra double cab Limited with the tow package, and I use it for hauling empty trailers and groceries. Not much good for anything else.
Light went out on the HomeLink, $650.00 for the module (can't just replace a bulb).
Factory recall on the front suspension lower ball joints.
Warranty on the left rear wheel bearing.
And now it's a white elephant - Toyota discontinued the Tundra (who would buy a full sized 1/2 ton truck with five -lug wheels anyway). ....

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DRankin
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2008-12-03          158337

Two questions: What is a homelink?

And where did you get the info that the Tundra line is discontinued? It is actively promoted on the Toyota web site.

As far as the useless comments..... I regularly tow 6000+ pounds with my 2002 Tundra with no problems.

My comments on the newer Tundra had to do with the reality that the actual loaded tow specs are probably closer to 9000 pounds, which is still a very good tow package.

Better than the 7000 pounds my '02 is rated for. ....

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hardwood
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2008-12-03          158338

Drankin; I'm sure it was a Toyota pickup that passed me on the fourlane, on the side of the box toward the rear it said "TURD", is that for real or did some disgruntled Toyota owner put that there? I don't keep up much on import cars and pickups.




Moderator edited (on behalf of Frank) by Murf.
....

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hardwood
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2008-12-03          158339

Sorry, I'm really messing up today. I started the prior post saying parked meaning to say he passed me, and didn't delete the first part, then tried to correct. Time for a nap. ....

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Murf
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2008-12-03          158340

Frank, you don't need new glasses.

Toyota has used the "TRD" (Toyota Race Developed) acronym for some time now to designate the trucks equipped with their off-road goodies package which were developed from ideas garnered from the trucks they sponsor in off-road racing.

Some bright spark in the marketing department, maybe whos first language isn't English, decided that with the Tundra trucks it should be "TuRD" (Tundra Race Developed).

I know several people who use Tundras as work trucks, a few even snow plow with them, I've never heard them say anything bad about them.

Best of luck. ....

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kthompson
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2008-12-03          158341

I have a 2 wheel drive 04 Trunda and it has 6 lug rims, looked to be sure. I have pulled 2 tons a many a time behind it on trailer with no problem. Now fertlizer spreader with I think 4 tons was a little more than it needed but pulled that in one disked field spreading fertlizer. Never had a GM pickup but have had Datsun (great diesel engine terrible body), Ford F150(ok), Dodge Dakota (great service 7,000 way too much to pull), Dodge 1500 (a work horse, like mechanic lots of repairs) totaled in wreck with smallest Toyota car which drove off from the accident. Went to Toyota because of that. Yep recall on ball joints, now which bought new vechile has never had a recall??? The dealership said have yet to find a bad one. Very nice and was ready when promised and not the dealership who sold it.

My youngest son in law has a Tundra which has an easy life. Far as I know no problems. Last year model year before they went to the BIG boy frame. My oldest has a 1 year old with 20,000 miles for most part easy miles. But I have pulled a 6 to 7,000 excavator behind it on a two axle trailer and it ran. Had hauled the same excavator on a 12 ton gooseneck trailer which weighed more with a Ford F350 diesel. No comparison, the Trunda had little better mileage and much more power. Again trailer was lighter one with the Trunda. Have friends with all the brands, the new Tundra will pull and run with any out there and leave most.

Glad to know where the one bad Trunda is. :) ....

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cutter
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2008-12-03          158347

I had a Tacoma that I absolutely loved. Apparently the four cylinder engine in that model had a sludge issue but the company took care of the ones with an issue. ....

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BobRooks
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2008-12-04          158352

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRankin | view 158337
What is a homelink?

HomeLink is in the overhead console. That is an acedemic name for a garage door opener that operates up to three doors.

Answer to question #2
From a salesman at Toyota of Kirkland, where I bought mine. They will not be offered for 2010. I had also heard that Toyota was working on a 3/4 ton diesel, but apparently that has been put on the back burner too, instead, pouring capital into economy & hybrid cars (following the money).

My bumper-pull dump trailer weighs 4,200 lbs. empty. I hauled 1/2 yard of 5/8" minus with the Tundra and it was such a struggle I don't even bother anymore. I use my F450 diesel service truck for all of my towing (it doesn't even know when the dozer is back there). ....

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Murf
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2008-12-04          158353

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRooks | view 158352
What is a homelink?
[QUOTE=BobRooks;158352] My bumper-pull dump trailer weighs 4,200 lbs. empty. I hauled 1/2 yard of 5/8" minus with the Tundra and it was such a struggle I don't even bother anymore.

I use my F450 diesel service truck for all of my towing (it doesn't even know when the dozer is back there). [/QUOTE]

How strange!!

A 5,000 pound truck with a small gas V8 and a 7,000 pound trailer tow capacity won't pull as well as a ~10,000 pound diesel with a 20,000 pound trailer tow capacity??

Let's talk apples to apples here.

My 40hp CUT doesn't pull as well, or push snow as well as my 125hp tractor does either. That's not to say there's anything wrong with my smaller tractor, it's just, well, smaller.

Best of luck. ....

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BobRooks
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2008-12-04          158365

The '92 F-450 has the 180 HP 7.3 liter IDI engine and auto trans. It's not going to burn rubber either.
All I'm saying is that for the time being I'm relinquishing the Tundra to passenger car duties until such time as I'll trade both of them in on a new F-350SD. ....

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Murf
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2008-12-04          158366

Bob, as I said before, let's compare apples to other apples, not pineapples.

Yes the 7.3 IDI only has 185hp compared to the Toyotas 245hp, but it also has 25% more torque and a 4.88 rear end instead of a 3.55 rear end ratio.

The F450 would out pull the Tundra on just the starter motor turning.


Best of luck. ....

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auerbach
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2008-12-04          158369

When you see a, say, Ford ad, you're not really hearing from Ford. You're hearing from employees of an ad agency (staffed by whiz kids chosen for their imagination and ability to know what consumer buttons to press) that reports to the marketing division of Ford. Thus the ad is twice removed from reality. ....

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DRankin
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2008-12-04          158373

When I say Tundra I am talking about a 4x4 long bed with a 245 hp V-8 and an automatic transmission with a 7000 pound tow rating.

They also come with a V-6, a lot more seats and a much reduced towing capacity. If you have one of these I guess the empty trailer would about max it out.

How much does a half yard of 5/8ths whatever weigh? ....

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earthwrks
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2008-12-04          158374

About 100 lb./cu. ft. or about 1350 lb. for a half-yard. ....

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kwschumm
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2008-12-04          158381

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter | view 158347
I had a Tacoma that I absolutely loved. Apparently the four cylinder engine in that model had a sludge issue but the company took care of the ones with an issue.


I wish I had a 2004 Tacoma instead of the 2007. The Japanese made ones were smaller and of higher quality. The 07 has been OK but it's definitely more fragile than the 04 and earlier ones. ....

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cutter
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2008-12-05          158385

It was a nice riding little truck, considering. ....

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