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Andyfr
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2002-02-25          35871

Hi there

I have been offered a Honda Compact tractor, 22HP, hydro trans, FEL, cab, MMM and collector, two sets of tyres turf and ag. Does anyone know anything about these machines, are they any good or should I run a mile? It is a very good price otherwise I wouldn't consider it. I don't have any other details as the dealer is going to get back to me.

Thanks in advance

Andy.


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TomG
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2002-02-26          35881

There is some info in the archives searching on HONDA. The main problem seems to be lack of manufacturer support in N.A. and related parts problems. I don't know if they had standard CAT I 3ph's or not, but lack of a standard hitch would be a limitation. ....

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Andyfr
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2002-02-26          35882

Tom

I found some info on this site:
http://www.sledmaine.net/ whittemoresons/honda/hodietra.htm. I am not sure if it is the same model but I believe they only made one model. My main concern is spares and service items. I will have to have a word with the dealer about that. The spec doesn't look bad but I was hoping that someone might have experience of one.

Regards

Andy. ....

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Roger L.
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2002-02-26          35900

Andy, I remember when those came out, and have been rummaging through my old sales literature collection trying to find a brochure....so far, no luck. I did drive those Hondas around at the dealer back when they were new. A local hardware store carried them, but I don't think they ever sold many. After a few years the dealership folded. So the Honda compact is a odd duck. You would certainly have the only one on the block!
I think there were two sizes, one with a very small category 0 hitch and the larger size might have been the more commonly used category 1
I recall being favorably impressed by the very quiet engine which gave off almost no diesel smoke and by a nifty & unique quad-wheel steering system.
The entire tractor was more lightly built than most compacts of that HP, but seemed sturdy enough to hold up. In particular I remember that the tires were smaller than I would have expected in a tractor that size....making it more of a mowing tractor than a plowing tractor.
As for parts and such, it isn't unusual for a tractor to go for decades without needing any parts other than filters, hoses, and belts. And Honda seems to build good tools. I'd hope that the low number of sales and questionable parts suppy would make combine to make the price very attractive.
If you are the kind of person who enjoys doing your own maintenance and minor repairs then why not own something unique? The downside would be that resale could be low, but then a low purchase price would make that OK. ....

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Andyfr
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2002-02-27          35901

Hi Roger

Thanks for the info. I have since found out that it has 2,336 hours on it which makes me think it is not such a good deal. The price is £4,500 (about US$6,750) plus VAT at 17.5% so not a lot of money but I think I would rather spend a bit more and get something with less hours and a better pedigree.

Andy. ....

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Roger L.
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2002-02-27          35905

Well, you'll get no argument from me with that philosophy.
A question often asked is "How long do they last?". From what I've seen in the last 25 years, it is beginning to look as though one compact tractor - regularly maintained - will last a person most of his working life. Because of this durability, and because design changes have been slow in the tractor world, then tractor value doesn't change much either. It isn't unusual for a used one to be worth exactly what it cost new a couple of decades later.
Given all the above, it seems reasonable to buy as good as one can afford instead of looking for a bargain. ....

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TomG
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2002-02-27          35907

Andy: The hours are around the time some tractors start needing a bit of work--injectors, hydraulics pumps and clutches sometimes need work, depending on tractor and usage. The idea of spending a bit more and on a tractor that had available parts and service probably is good. I did want to say that most comments here came from North American experience. Since you quoted prices in pounds, you're probably outside N.A., and support for Honda compacts may be different.

What I heard is that Honda stopped importing compacts to N.A.. They may be more of a going concern elsewhere. Roger probably knows the answer. He is a wealth of information and experience as always.
....

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Andyfr
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2002-02-27          35909

Tom

I thought that the most hours I should consider would be about 800 for the very reasons you mention. Although I won't be putting a lot of hours on in a year it will have to last me for quite some time.

I think that Honda did the same over here as there are very few of them about, it looks like it was only on the market for a very short time. I have been looking for a Kubota mainly but there are not many dealers in the area so it means dealing with one several hundred miles away.

You're right about location, I am in the UK in the Highlands of Scotland not far from Loch Ness.

Regards

Andy. ....

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DRankin
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2002-02-27          35913

Andy, The only comment I can remember reading about the Honda tractor was that it was a good machine but that the front-end loader was a real pain to take off and on. Bye the bye, what clan do you hail from? My mother was Rankin/McLean. That either makes me scotch from the knees down or the neck up. I think I prefer the latter as being German from the neck up can sometimes be detrimental to ones health. ....

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Andyfr
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2002-02-27          35915

Mark

We are not native Scots. We moved up here in 1994 to get away from the city life. We are originally from a city in Yorkshire. Great up here until you want to buy anything out of the ordinary then it can be a real pain.

Andy. ....

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TomG
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2002-02-28          35934

Andy: We're on the Ottawa River along the old fur trade route. Very few people here, and buying even ordinary things gets to be a pain. My dealer is a 2-hour drive away on a good day. Ahh, the glories of country living.

A tractor without good dealer support would be a liability for me. Although my dealer is distant, he's pretty good on the telephone and at sending parts by courier. Around here, things such as oil and batteries can't be sent by courier, so making a few trips or finding substitutes is necessary. NH used to ship directly from their warehouse to owners, but they changed their policy and only ship to dealers. If my dealer doesn’t have a part in stock, I have to pay two shipping charges, and it does make small parts quite expensive. It also costs a bit if I have to truck the tractor to the dealer. I really don't want to trailer it myself using my 1/2-ton. Anyway, it's good to think through these types of things before looking at too many tractors. It's possible to become very attached to one just by looking at it.

When I was in the city about half my football club escaped Glasgow by coming to N.A., and others from Belfast. It's probably easier to get the rocks out of the highlands than to get those guys off the ball.

A more recreational club I played for mostly were escaping Middlesbouough. Of course, a player from another club said he was from Middlesborough and they really weren’t. Wrong side of the river of something. Gets to be complicated being from someplace in the UK, or at least it seems so from a N.A. perspective.
....

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Peters
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2002-02-28          35954

I guess if I was in your location I might look at the Massey's. Massey had a good representation in the UK and the compacts are as good as any.
I looked at Honda's tractor when it was sold here. I only went as far as the price. The dealer I looked at had it thousand more than a JD, NH, Kubota, Massey etc. I thought it was probably like slapping a Honda sticker on a Izuzu and calling it a Passport and charging 2K more then the Izuzu.
I am part Scott, hence the middle name of Mac Kenzie. I am not sure if that is Canadian tradition or old country?
Tom, hit the old family farm when I was home, still not the same since my father and uncle sold it to Vincent, nor is Massey since he died. ....

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Andyfr
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2002-03-01          35956

Funny you should metion Massey Ferguson. I have seen a couple advertised a 1220 and a 1230 both with HST and 4 in 1 buckets with 700 and 800 hours and was wondering if they might be worth considering. Unfortunately they are over 600 miles away so it is a long way to go to view. They also have a Kubota B1750 with loader.

I'm not sure what HP I need really. We only have one acre and I will be using it for clearing snow and landscaping only. It is hilly and has plenty of rocks. I'm worried that I might get a 20HP and find it underpowered but I don't want to waste money on extra HP if I don't need it.

Decisions, decisions!!! ....

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TomG
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2002-03-01          35957

Except for backhoes, some hay bales and maybe a few other exceptions, big and small tractors can do the same work. The small ones, with narrower implements and smaller loaders just take more time. However, for jobs that take a lot of maneuvering, small can get the work done faster. Some places between buildings, around landscaping or in the bush that big tractors just can't go.

Big tractors excel at heavy lifting and pulling wide implements in open spaces. They loose their advantage when there's too many things to go around or too many short rows. Many smaller properties can't utilize the capabilities of larger tractors, and it can become a matter of wasting both time and money if a lot of maneuvering is required.

Quite a few people maintain several acres with 20HP tractors and smaller. Some of the decision about tractor size depends on how much time a person wants to spend operating a tractor. I maintain two 2-acre properties with my 24 PTO HP tractor and do some outside work as well. However, I do use a riding mower for lawns because it gets the job done faster than the tractor, which is a little large for the number of buildings and landscaping on the properties.

On the other hand, a small tractor can't dig deep trenches or postholes and can't lift or skid heavy objects. I also have that sort of work to do; so my tractor that is too cumbersome for mowing probably is the best size for me. One alternative is to get a tractor that's a good size for the on-going routine jobs and contract out the heavier jobs. That sort of idea is pretty good when there's is heavy but one-time jobs to do and when contractors are readily available. It can be a bit of a trick to find an available contractor around here when one is needed, so I have to have a tractor that can do some of the heavier jobs, and the riding mower is the price I pay.
....

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Andyfr
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2002-03-01          35959

Tom

My main concern is with landscaping. Would a B1750 have enough HP to dig with the FEL and to move rocks (sizes from 1 ft to 2ft in size) on a steepish site or would I be better to go for the extra 4 or 5 HP of a larger model?

Andy. ....

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DRankin
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2002-03-01          35967

Well Andy maybe I wiil jump back in on this one. No compact tractor will "bulldoze" buried rocks of the size you describe with the FEL. A box scraper will turn up smaller rocks and pile them so the FEL can scoop them, but if you are dealing with basketball size rocks your compact tractor becomes a handy dandy motorized wheelbarrow for lifting, carring and pileing the rocks after you loosen them with other tools. I am certainly not the last word on this subject, but I own a JD 4100 (20hp 1565lbs) and I live on a steep hill with lots of rocks and that is the way it is working for me. Maybe someone with a backhoe or a middle buster can offer more insight as it relates to rocks and those implements. TTFN Mark ....

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Peters
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2002-03-01          35969

Andy
You are not going very fast or far. I had a JD 750 which is 20 hp and 15 PTO. My brother in law has Kioti of the same size. With a bush hog FEL I had no trouble digging even in quite hard soil, despite the fact I had turf tires. I loaded rocks nearly as large as the bucket into the FEL and moved them around our hill side in Kentucky.
My brother in-law recommended that I get a larger tractor. The JD is significantly heavier than the Kioti. And with the filled tires it would dig quite well and move material.
When brush cutting the low PTO power was a factor as was the hyd. pump capacity.
Points to Consider.
1) Many of the smaller tractors have dry brakes. If you are mostly using the FEL then the brakes wear quickly. I replaced mine ~ every 150 hrs on the 750. At 90 per pad this get expensive. Go with wet brakes, especially on the hills.
2) If you are using the FEL on hills you need power steering. Ideally their should be 2 pumps to prevent mishaps if the pump is overloaded by the lift. The 750 did not it was difficult to man handles at times with a load in the FEL.
3) On hilly terrain with a load in the bucket it is often difficult to hold your foot on the brake, increase power, manuver the wheel and feather the clutch. The hydraulic drive is much easier (I now have a 955).
Despite the distance to the tractors, how close are the dealers to you? You will be making more trips to get supplies than to pick up the tractor.
The Kubota has enough HP but I would question the mass for lifting. You need a sturdy FEL. My current JD FEL would not be heavy enough to lifting large rocks, it would get too banged up. ....

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Andyfr
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2002-03-01          35975

Thanks for the comments guys certainly given me something to think about.

Dealer location in the area. Well the nearest one is a Kubota 25 miles, the next are NH and Massey both 50 miles and JD 100 miles.

I have decided that the "must haves" include 4 wheel drive, power steering, hydro trans, ag tyres and a FEL. It would be a bonus to have a cab with the climate here.

Andy. ....

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Peters
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2002-03-01          35976

I would add wheel weights/filled tires, a mass over 1000 Kg and HD FEL. ....

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Peters
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2002-03-01          35977

You might consider R4 tires rather than Ag to give a wider stance. ....

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TomG
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2002-03-02          35988

Andy: I think that you're going to get to know many of those rock individually unless there's a dozer handy.

I don't think there's an implement for any sized compact that can go over the ground and kick rocks that size out on the surface. Many of them are likely to stop any compact cold or break it. Those have to be dug out one at a time, and probably frost heave will make some new ones each year. In this context, a smaller compact will get the work done but it just takes longer.

Fortunately we're on glacial sand rather than the bed rock and esker deposits that are common around here. I don't didn't have many rocks to deal with. If I did, I might look around for loader accessories that could help. I believe there are some accessories that dig better than a plane bucket blade. Maybe there also is something that is better at getting under the edge of a rock and using the loader curl to lever them out.

Myself, I tend to use a box blade rather than a loader for shallow excavations. The scarifiers are capable of kicking minor sized rocks to the surface. Box blades also are sort of 'Swiss Army Knives' for landscaping work. They can do about everything, but they don't work as well as specific implements for the various jobs.

One limitation of my loader for digging is that it doesn't lower very far. With a flat bucket, the blade edge is barely below ground level. Loaders that can go further below ground level with fairly flat buckets are better at digging. One thing to keep in mind is that a loader is not a dozer blade. Quite a few loaders are broken when people angle the bucket down and try to doz with it. Four in one buckets don't have that limitation, but their extra weight may be a liability in a very small compact.
....

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Andyfr
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2002-03-02          35998

Tom:

I have looked for box blades over here in the UK but we only seem to have box scrapers (no blades) and chisel ploughs which have either 1, 3 or 5 blades. I was thinking that I would probably get a 3 blade one and then level the ground with the FEL after. I don't intend doing any major excavation work just try to get rid of the large humps and hollows and basically tame it a bit.

I would probably need to get a toothbar for the FEL to give it a bit of extra bite.

Peters:

The main reason for getting ag tyres is because of the snow, I don't think that the turfs would grip well enough. I had forgot to mention that I would need to have wheel weights or a concrete rear balast.

Regards

Andy. ....

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Peters
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2002-03-02          35999

Andy;
Or maybe Handy Andy like on changing rooms. I wouldn't call you Randy Andy, that would be nice and it is reserved for the prince.
R4 tires are construction tires they are on the turf tire rims with not as deep bars and are wider than a regular Ag tire.
Box blades/scrapers are one in the same. Here you can get them with retractable teeth to help break up the compacted soil.
You can also level with a regular blade, it is just a little harder to work. You use the back side of the blade to level and the front side to dig. ....

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Andyfr
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2002-03-02          36007

Peters

I think Handy Andy is definitely more appropriate! I didn't know you got Changing Rooms over there.

I got a bit confused with the R4 and turf tyres. Over here we don't have those options, only ag or turf at least as far as I'm aware.

Andy. ....

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Peters
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2002-03-02          36014

I get BBC America on the satellite, but have watched pieces of the BBC for years. The PBS station in Seattle is highly Canadian supported and had many of the old comedies on. The CBC had many of the Dramas, the Avergers etc.
They say you don't understand a language well until you understand the jokes. I guess unike most here (AL) I understand British English.
I keep teasing Tom, about the Red Green Show and Possum Lodge as it fits his neighbours in northern Ont.
The R4 are normally on the same rims as the turf tires. They tend to be a little heavier side wall construction than the Ag tires. I have turf on the front of mine and R4 on the back. I mow the lawn with out damaging the turf, but have more traction than all turfs. ....


Link:   Red Green Show

 
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TomG
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2002-03-03          36020

Here's a bunch of unorganized observations. Worth saying I think even if too long. First is that ag tires aren't very good on frozen ground. There isn't much contact if the cleats don't sink in. Cases have been made that turfs may have more traction the ags on ice. Of course there always are ti(y)re chains.

Putting R4's, the sort of tires found on forklifts, on tractors is a fairly recent phenomenon. I'm not sure when or if manufacturers generally started offering R4's as factory tire sets. Although R4's generally go on turf rims, not just any tire will do on 4wd tractors. Front and rear tires come as sets determined by the tires' rolling circumferences.' With mismatched sets, the front axle will excessively lead, or worse, lag the rear axle.

Box scrapers and blades are the same things here. Their advantages are that they are inexpensive, relatively rugged and weigh a lot (they are sometimes used for rear ballast) and have scarifiers. Weight is almost everything in a blade or box, particularly for hard ground. Lightweight implements don't cut well and without a box scraper's scarifiers, hard soil can't be loosened. A fancy rear blade with all the swings and tilts and with end-plates may be more useful than a box, but such blades stop being inexpensive.

A lot of landscaping requires material to be cut and moved elsewhere. A box or blade with end-plates keep material on the blade and allows it to be cut, dragged and spread elsewhere. Hydraulic top-links are invaluable for making adjustments to the blade angle to change among cutting, dragging and spreading operations. Blades without end-plates are good at cutting and pushing material to the side, which is not always desirable for landscaping work.

No matter what is used, grading is something of an art, and it takes practice to get good results. One problem is that when one end of a tractor goes into a hole or over a hill, the other end goes the other way. An implement attached to that end stops cutting and dumps its load or digs a new hole. Using float positions or doing a bunch of small cut and fill operations helps, but it's still an art. The trouble is that a light loader bucket doesn't cut well in float, although riding the curl can modulate the blade angle. With too sharp a bucket angle, the blade digs in, jack-knifes and jams the loader. It's easy enough to break one--as will hitting a rock.

People do grade fairly small areas with loaders all the time. I never exactly got the hang of it, but maybe that's because I got a box scraper with hydraulic top-link before trying too much with the loader. I'm better with a loader now, but I did kick up some mighty divots while learning.
....

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Andyfr
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2002-03-03          36027

Peters:

I'm glad to see that you enjoy British television over there as I used to be involved in the industry for a good number of years before having to get a "proper" job. The Redgreen show looks er...interesting!

The R4 tyres might be suitable but I would have to see if they are available.

Tom:

The main reason I thought about ag tyres is for removing the snow before it turns to ice, I thought that ags would not clog as easily and being narrower would compact less snow on a pass.

Would a 4 in 1 bucket be a better option? One of the possibilites comes with one.

Andy.

....

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Peters
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2002-03-03          36030

I considered suggesting the 4 in 1. It might give you a better handle on
the rocks. IE you many be able to clamp the bucket around the rock. I have
seen rocks placed with a clamping bucket on a track hoe, but never having
used it on a compact, I guess I will resort to the 3 hardest words a for a
man to say (Red Green) " I don't know!".
I live in the south and have never plowed snow with the r4. I did plow with
turf tires when I lived farther north.
Peters
....

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DRankin
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2002-03-03          36041

Red green fans?!!? I knew you guys had redeeming qualities besides being fellow tractor geeks. Pass the duct tape. ....

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TomG
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2002-03-04          36047

A 4 'n 1 would be something to consider. I'm aware that people do all the jobs mentioned with just ordinary loaders. However, I think that having a better tool for some of the work would be very desirable.

In terms of snow removal: Most drives around here are gravel. Many things are called gravel, but around here it usually refers to 'pit run' which is a mixture of sand and small stone. Pit run compacts and it freezes where larger aggregate doesn't, and snow removal from gravel is a problem before freeze up. Unless a blade has very large skid shoes, it just sinks in and more drive than snow is plowed.

So, I actually want my drive to freeze. Until it does, I use my loader with the lift floated and the bucket curled up to keep the blade edge above ground. I also have to hope that a heavy snow doesn't happen before freeze up. Loaders aren't great for heavy snows because they don't clear snow from the front of the bucket like an angled blade. After freeze up, I use a 3ph blower.

The object of drive management here is to keep a layer of snow pack on top of the gravel rather than try to clear down to the gravel. Snow pack has reasonable traction--at least enough for my turfs to use the blower and pus snow around and stack it with the loader. For me ags probably wouldn’t be as good as turfs. If I used a blade, I’d want chains for any type of tire.

Periodically there are freezing rains and melts, and then drives turns into skating rinks when that happens, it's better to leave a bit of slush that will freeze rough than to slick it down with a blade. My big rule is to never remove snow when freezing rain followed by a freeze is expected.

The problem is that if I cleared all the snow pack then the gravel would thaw sooner in the spring and I'd be stuck with using the loader for the rest of the season.

Paved drives can be done differently. However ordinary tractor blades and even skid shoes will scar or break many types of paved surfaces. I take care my neighbour's paved drive. He doesn't take it down to pavement with his walk-behind blower, because 'black-ice' on a long drive can't be avoided unless the drive is very well crowned and ditched. Black ice is more of a problem than snow pack. I have to wait for a layer of snow pack on his drive before I can my blower or loader.
....

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2002-03-09          36213

Andy, Tom, et.al.: 2 cents worth from a Tennessee 'hillbilly'. For traction on ice, have you considered "ice studs" in your tires. They would be in the bars or knobs of the tire that touch the ice. About 20 years back, I had an old International Scout (more like a WWII Jeep with a body). I had lug tires with ice studs (front & rear), 4WD and could go up and down ice covered hills sometimes pushing a car; or passing a police cruiser with chains in the ditch. Having ice studs on the front gave me steering and braking on ice. On dry pavement above 35 mph, steering was not as responsive as withour ice studs; this should not be a problem on a tractor.

I don't think the ice studs would be a problem with turf, etc. during warm weather.

Andy, I am getting Kubota B2410 delivered next week from a dealer 45 miles away. I chose the B2410HSD because it gave me sufficient power without going to a physically larger tractor, ie. longer wheelbase, wider tread, excessive weight, etc. My son-in-law has a Kubota B7300HSD, likes it very much and has had no problems - mid-mount mower, scraper blade (gravel drive) and single plow.

Best of luck
Jim ....

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Andyfr
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2002-03-09          36214

Hi Jim

The ice studs would certainly help when the snow gets really compacted. What I hope to be able to do is use a FEL to clear the snow before it gets too compacted.

Good luck with the new tractor. My budget is tight so am having to look around. I have been offered a B2150, hydro, 4x4, FEL, BH and cab the price is really low so I am expecting it to have starship hours when the dealer gets back to me with that information.

Andy. ....

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TomG
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2002-03-10          36229

I've heard that ice studs work fairly well. I have a vague recollection of hearing a downside to them, but I can't remember what it was.

There are a number of discussions about using loaders for snow removal in the archives that might be good to read. Loaders for snow removal work but they have their limitations.

In buying a backhoe equipped tractor, it's a good idea to inspect the bottoms of the cases for signs separation and oil leaks. Heavy use of a 3ph hoe can overly stress a tractor's chassis. Some sub-frame mounted hoe greatly complicate the mounting or use of 3ph implements. Some sub-frames require the lift arms to be removed.

Always things to consider, but it does sound like a purchase might be near.
....

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JimTN
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2002-03-10          36237

Tom, downsides (for automobiles) are steering as noted in previous post (should not be a factor on tractor) and the studs will make small pits in concrete or asphalt pavement. Some states have outlawed ice studs or limited their use to winter months. I noticed this winter that local police were using the ice studs instead of chains. I would not want ice studs if I had pave driveway which the tractor would be running on once a week or more. There would likely be considerable damage to the pavement. ....

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TomG
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2002-03-11          36241

I remember having rear ones when I was a kid. I though chains were better, but I'm not sure I've ever used chains on glare ice. What may not be well known is that studs can be put on existing tires or so I've heard. Of course, removing and transporting loaded rear tractor tires may make a person wish for new tires.

Steering is an issue for 2 or 4wd tractors. It's not uncommon for me to have to take a corner in two passes when trying to push snow with a loader. There isn't enough front wheel traction to push the tractor plus snow around the corner. If I'm holding down pressure and trying to cut snow pack, the front wheels are unloaded and there’s even less steering. Sometimes it's even a little tough getting around corners using a 3ph snow blower, although keeping a load of wet snow in the bucket helps.

If I was doing it, I'd put chains or studs on all tires because I'd want more steering as well as more traction. Adding traction to the front does create more wear and tear on the front drive train. However, the important thing is not to have more front than rear traction. I'm not sure how much traction studs might add when on unfrozen ground, but they can't be removed during the summer. It probably would be important to keep the rear well ballasted when doing heavy loader work to make sure the rear drive takes most of the load. Having said all this, there are people who have used chains on the front tires only for years without problems. I can't remember on which tractors though.
....

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Andyfr
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2002-03-11          36253

Well the dealer got back to me with the hours of the B2150, 1583. He also said that the tractor has "seen some wear" and that the backhoe is very loose, the bonnet (hood) and lights have been hit by rocks from the FEL...I think I will give it a miss! Even thought the price is very low at £4,500 (US$6.750) I think I would be buying a lot of trouble.

Oh well, back to looking!

Andy. ....

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TomG
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2002-03-12          36274

When we moved to the country, my insurance company required an electrical service upgrade among other things. Storms in the area were keeping contractors busy restoring downed lines etc. I couldn't get a contractor to come to the country to do a service upgrade. New electrical codes would require extensive modification to the house to upgrade the overhead service, and underground is far better for many reasons.

I knew I had to do the work myself and I had about a month to get the trenching done before winter would start closing in. I found my tractor after in less than a week on the phone, and it was the first tractor I looked at. The dealer trucked it three hours to our place for approval. I'm sure he smelled a sure buyer. Anyway, it's amazing how good necessity can make a used tractor look. I did miss the broken off and welded 4wd control leer though. The 4wd linkage broke a year later.

Got the work done and the tractor even turned out to be a pretty good one. However, when buying a used one, it is good to reserve a maintenance budget. There always seems to be a charge for what Roger calls the 'Dread Previous Owner' (DPO). My charge was about $1,500 CAN. Faith! A good deal will happen, and there will be all sorts of learning about tractors in the meantime.
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