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new holland warranty question - prospective buyer

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alltime
Join Date: Sep 2004
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2004-09-08          95939

I am just wondering if I were to buy a new NH tractor from any dealer, that from what I can find has a 12 month MANUFACTURER warranty, then I should be able to take it to any NH dealer if it craps out on me for service?? That doesnt sound like a question but, is that true? My local dealer dodged the question because he didnt want me to go out of state, I couldnt find anything on the NH website, but my opinion is if it is a manufacturer warranty then any NH dealer has to honor the warranty because they get reimbursed from the manufacturer for any work anyway. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Jason


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oneace
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2004-09-08          95949

As a New Holland tech. All I can say is good luck to find another dealer to do your warranty work.

Gee I bought this tractor from so an so but now it is broken. Will you do the repairs for me and lose money when New Holland disputes the repair and does not pay you.

Even though I gave the other guy the profit for the sale in the first place? ....

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alltime
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2004-09-08          95952

Believe me, I am not arguing with you, just want to understand the LEGALITY of the situation. I dont think that a NH dealer can legally refuse a manufacturer warranty claim. Perfect example, what if I bought a tractor and moved to Canada in 4 months. In 8 months the transmission "broke" and is covered legitamately under the warranty. What would you suggest I do? Same thing as when you buy a car, you dont have to take it to the dealer you bought it from because one "Ford" dealer is the same as another for a warranty repair. They just turn it in to Ford Motor Co. That, I think, is the price they pay to be a "Ford" or "NH" etc. dealer. ....

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oneace
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2004-09-08          95954

I am not saying they will not do the work. By the way they are not legally required to either different laws for cars and tractors. But you will not be a priority with them. Because 98% of warranty repairs the dealer loses money.

Does it make any since to you yet. I know it is complicated and most times unless you see it you do not understand.

We will do other dealers work but they are normally at the bottom of the list.

It is different if you move most will try to make you happy so you become there customer then. ....

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Chief
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2004-09-08          95955

alltime, a dealer may not want to perform the warranty work if you did not buy the machine from him. Should the dealer tell you he cannot get to it in a reasonable time; ask him when he can. If he refuse to give you a time or refuses to perform the warranty work. It is his perogative and perhaps right. Then ask for the refusal in writing. If they refuse to give the refusal in writing, have a wittness who will coroborate or a tape recording of the incident. Then contact NH corporate and convey this information and at the same time follow up by sending this info. to them in writing.

These actions seem to get knuckleheads motivated when you set them up to openly and deliberately breech their own warranty contract. At that point you can take it up with the BBB and depending on how pissed off you are with a lawyer. I loath lawyers and prefer to resolve things with folk as direct and amicably as is possible. ALWAYS remember to be REAL polite and courteous while doing this. Makes a BIG difference. Bottom line is that they carry the franchise and have the sign posted in front of the store with the NH logo; they have a duty to honor and perform ALL applicable warranty issues whether they like it or not. It is the price of carrying the franchise. Personally, I am not sure I would let a place touch my machine that I had to force feed and get their mind right. I guess it would all depend upon how nasty they were about it and if there were alternative dealers in the area. I drive 80 miles one way to my dealer and gladly so because the local dealers in my area aren't worth the effort for me to walk across the street to pee on their boots. The way I see it; you treat people right because it is the right thing to do period. Hopefully a dealer who looses a sale because he did not have his competitive act together will learn from his mistake and at least try to gain your business back in implements and service. What goes around comes around. The dealers who refuse to learn this lesson don't always last very long. There are exceptions but not many. Treat the customer right and they will be back. ....

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oneace
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2004-09-08          95963

I said it before and I'll say it again. warranty work does not pay it is a loss for the dealer in most cases which is why they are reluctant to do any other dealers work.

For us we will do others work. Why? Because we may lose money the first time but the costumer will be more than 100% satisfied with our store and return for future purchases/ services. Any body that walks through our door is number one. That is why we have the reputation we do with out all the in your face advertising. Word of mouth is better than any banner ad any day of the week.

I have gotten phone calls at 4:45 15 mins before closing. "my unit is down I am 100 mi. away"

My thoughts when that call comes "It is going to be along night" Cause I'll load and go to getting going that night.

We know that allot of our customers rely on there machines to make there money and down time is not good so we act as promptly as we can.

I wish I could say who we are but I do not want to spam. Some of you know and some of you have bought from us before and know our reputation.

There are a "few" other dealers in the country that will go to the lengths we do but not many. ....

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dan
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2004-09-09          96013

Why is it another dealers work. If you are a New Holland dealer why aren't you standing behind the product that you sell, regardless of where it was purchase. The warranty is a NEW HOLLAND warranty not a dealer warranty. All warranty work is a loss weather it a car, truck or tractor. What if you moved since you bought your tractor boy you would be screwed. Is this common with the other manufactors you certainly wouldn't get away with this with a car. ....

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alltime
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2004-09-09          96022

thats my point exactly Dan. I just cant believe so many people give such a bad vibe when this is brought up. I would hope to never have a problem which is why I am looking at buying a NEW NH. If I'm going to get stuck with something the manufacturer isnt going to stand behind I am better off buying something used. The whole thing just seems like the individual dealers stonewalling the customer. I think I will email New Holland themself and seeing what their position is. Thanks for everybodies help ....

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Billy
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2004-09-09          96024

oneace, exactly how does NH warranty work pay? I know how JD pays.
....

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Murf
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2004-09-09          96041

Oneace, you're earlier statement "By the way they are not legally required to either different laws for cars and tractors." is not correct, and very misleading.

A warranty is not anything more than a legally binding contract between two parties, the manufacturer and the purchaser. In some cases a minimum amount of warranty is required by law.

Here in Canada the Kubota, for instance, warranty states as follows; "We warrant to the original purchaser, from the date of purchase, all parts (except as listed) of each new Kubota tractor, implements and replacement parts, purchased from an Authorized Kubota Dealer in CANADA to be free from defects in materials or workmanship during the appropriate period." and it goes on to lay out terms and conditions, such as "In order to obtain warranty repairs, you must deliver the product, together with proof of purchase, to an Authorized Kubota Dealer in Canada at your expense." and the interesting following point " Kubota Canada Ltd. does not authorize any other party,including Kubota dealers, to make any representation or promise on behalf of Kubota Canada Ltd. to modify the terms, conditions, or limitations of this warranty in any way.".

As representatives of Kubota Canada EVERY dealer IS legally required to do warranty repairs. Timing is another story.

This last point is sometimes VERY critical, I have had dealers refuse warranty work, or more particularly, refuse to DO warranty work. In one instance in particular, I had to get very forceful about it, when the dealer flat-out refused to do it I got the Kubota rep. on the phone, they told the dealer that my machine was to be the next one in their door or THEIR sign would be down by the end of the day. It was fixed in under an hour and I had a written apology from the dealer in a week.

A lot of dealers like to stonewall "non-customers", hoping to get them to go elsewhere. Doesn't mean it's right, proper or permitted. Like speeding, you only pay for it when you get CAUGHT.

Best of luck. ....

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5picker
Join Date: May 2004
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2004-09-09          96052

Oneace,
I think we are all trying to understand some of the comments you make about NH.

My background is from the parts and service division of one of the "big 3" auto makers so I know exactly how that warranty system works and am trying to relate that knowledge to NH.

In the past, you have stated that dealers loose money several ways..(and I'm paraphrasing here) "NH will dispute the warranty claim and refuse to pay." and "dealers can't make any money doing warranty work."

Does NH not have any pre-set guidelines as to what repairs they will pay and what they won't, that they can come in and "refuse to pay?"

Also does the statement "Dealers can't make any money doing warranty work." mean, they do it for no compensation at all, or does it mean warranty work doesn't pay as well as customer pay work and/or the parts don't have any/or as big a mark up?

Before I make any further assumptions about NH or their dealers, I'd like to know the answers to these questions.
Tim ....

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oneace
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2004-09-09          96091

Only the selling dealer is "required" to do the warranty repairs. They do not fully pay pay for diagnostic what may take 10 hours to figure out they may only pay for 2.

I really can not say anything else or I may be liable by both my dealer and New Holland Corporate.

May seem like I copping out but they do monitor this site and i need my income. I can not afford to lose my job. ....

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Art White
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2004-09-09          96096

You should be able to get service at any NH dealer! You will not get the same service as a customer that spent the money to invest in the dealership. That is or should be the only difference. ....

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5picker
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2004-09-10          96123

Art White wrote:"You will not get the same service as a customer that spent the money to invest in the dealership."

Does this mean the quality of repair, or does it mean you may not get scheduled as quickly, have parts shipped priority, and have pickup/return as someone who bought the tractor from the dealership?

I believe it reasonable to expect if you did not buy a tractor from your local dealer but need repair work, that you have to understand his purchasing customers come first and you shouldn't expect perks like immediate scheduling, pick-up and delivery and/or priority ordering of non stock parts.

If it means quality of repair, then I have a BIG problem with that. Under no circumstances should the quality of the repair be in question.

Oneace...I understand your position and value your knowledge and input but if NH monitors this site, they should chime in here and tell us exactly what coroprate believes dealers should or shouldn't do for NH customers regardless of whether the dealer sold the unit. Under no circumstances should your job be in jeopardy for standing up on their behalf.

Don't get me wrong...I am NOT an advocate of buying off the internet or in some other state just to save some bucks. I have repeatedly posted here that folks need to forge a relationship with their local dealer before buying so they are comfortable with service after the sale. Working in the Parts & Service division of Ford Motor Company for 30 years taught me plenty about that.

What I would have a problem with is if I happened to move, or my selling dealer went out of business or any other reason I would need NH service from another dealer, that they would give me sub-quality repairs because I did not purchase it from them.

If it turns out a dealership can't make money on warranty repairs because something takes 10 hours to diagnose and NH only pays 2, then I think the dealer ought to be looking at how well trained his techs are and determine if it's a lack of factory training and knowledge or just poor work ethics that keeps him from making money.

Tim ....

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Chief
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2004-09-10          96125

A sharp service writter working in conjunction with the mechanic and Shop supervisor can write up and legitimately word (read justify) the time spent to identify a problem so that the shop time spent on diagnosis is recovered. Not advocating being dishonest; time is money and you must justify the time spent. ....

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Murf
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2004-09-10          96130

I believe Oneace is VERY MISTAKEN when he says "Only the selling dealer is "required" to do the warranty repairs."

When you buy a NH tractor it comes with a MANUFCTURER'S warranty, it is NOT warrantied by the dealer that sold it to you, but by the company that built it.

I have never seen a warranty that didn't have language like the Kubota warranty I quoted above, that ANY 'authorized dealer' can do warranty repairs.

He is correct, I believe, based on my experience, that you may not get the same 'red carpet treatment' as his own customers, but that is understandable.

Most dealers are in a 'service industry' because they like it, not because they are getting rich doing it.

I personally have had dealerships make me offers such as one who said, "My own customers have the shop booked solid for the next couple days, but if you are in a rush, I will ask if any of the mechanics want to stay late to work on your machine for you if you want to offer them a few bucks for doing it." I did, two mechanics, an 'old hand' and an apprentice, stayed two hours extra, I gave them a few bucks and bought them a kick-a#$% steak next door afterwards.

Best of luck. ....

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jamese
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2004-09-10          96153

wow,,I thought any dealer would work on mine,,I ll quit taking it out of town to work with then,,I sure dont want a problem in another town,, ....

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oneace
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2004-09-10          96186

I am not mistaken. All Nh will do is call and ask you to do the work. As far as diog. times. These new tractors have nore electronics in them then cars. When you have to find a break in a wire that is fifty feet long entwined with 100 other wires it takes time. NH corporate does not understand this. I have written 5 page reports on what was done to repair such a problem and they still paid only 2 hours.

WARNING: Here comes the a$$ h--l in me.

I work for the company I know what goes on with the logistics of it. What reason do I have to misrepresent or lie about any thing. I already said I do not care where you buy your tractor, and that we will do any work that comes through the door.

You may own and get your tractor serviced but you have no idea what goes on in the office. You do not work for a dealership. You do not know what every dealer ship is like nor do I. But I do know the ones with in 200 to 300 miles of me are like.

A warranty is like insurance. They are going to fight tooth and nail not to pay.

If you want to continue to argue with me that is fine.
I state what I know, not what I think.

My only goal is to make sure buyers are protected and will have service available when needed. ....

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stevenc
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2004-09-10          96211

LOL ....

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brokenarrow
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2004-09-11          96256

Quote (We will do other dealers work but they are normally at the bottom of the list.) Sounds like your dealership is no different than the other ones within 300 miles of you?
That dont sound to me like your trying to make the custimers come back? Sound like its putting them BACK, Way back LOL.
As for Wisconsin, I called my dealer (yesterday after reading these posts) and he laughed!!! He told me to call any dealer in his area and ask if they would do a warrenty job on a tractor that was bought from his dealership. I did just that and they said SURE no problem whats wrong with ( Other dealerships name) cant they service you? LOL Now thats playing the trump/idiot card on them! Maybe its cut throat around you and maybe its because you may have one of those ebay dealers near you (I dont know) but up here where buisness is tight it seems like getting you in the door is the first step.
My dealer also said, "I better not take it somewhere else!!!" and he laughed. I told him rest assured he would get my buisness whether it was warrentee or not.
Oneace, I think you are not doing youself, your buisness, or our company one bit of good by talking about your dealerships buisness practices. Speak for your own dealership and not others. People need to do their homework before buying a tractor, and if saving a grand by going out of state or farther is what they want to do let them!!!! Dont get to be a head case with me! I am not busting your chops here, just stating a opinion, you contradicted your own words in 2 post right here. One say's other warrentee work will be last on the list and anouther post say,s you put the customer first?
I believe many dealerships from many other manufacturers have the same issues here, some are good and some are bad. Whats the turn over rate of mechanics where you work? Maybe that is why your not making money on warrentee work? Company says its a hour job and a rookie mechanic takes 2. That is a dealership problem not a New Holland problem ....

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oneace
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2004-09-12          96273

The turn over rate is nonexistant at our dealership. Once you come in very few leave whether sales, parts, or service areas. I am actually the rookie with only 2 years at the company. Most range from 9 to 25 years. ....

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alltime
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2004-09-13          96319

Just to set the record straight, I just got a reply from New Holland - they say, and I quote, "Although we RECOMMEND visiting your selling dealership for any warranty work, you can go to ANY authorized New Holland dealership as long as you have the proper documentation." END OF STORY ....

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jack8265
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2004-09-27          97288

The reason your local dealer does not want to do the warranty is that What New Holland pays the dealer most of the time does not cover what it costs to do the work. So you have X dealer selling tractors all over the country at a great price because he knows that he will never see the tractors again. He will not have to go and pick the tractor up if it breaks down. If he has to do warranty work and his man runs over the time New Holland pays for that job then he does not have to worry about that either.
I can understand the dealer who says I must take care of my local people who bought a tractor from me. That is why I bought local. If and when I have a problem I know that all I have to do is call and they will pick it up and fix it. Look at it this way if you have a problem and bought your tractor from X dealer I say call X dealer and see what he is going to do for you. I looked into it and they are not going to do anything for you. It is not a deal if you have no service. ....

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Billy
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2004-09-27          97290

Jack, I have a few questions.

"The reason your local dealer does not want to do the warranty is that What New Holland pays the dealer most of the time does not cover what it costs to do the work."

#1 How much does NH pay dealers on warranty work?

"So you have X dealer selling tractors all over the country at a great price because he knows that he will never see the tractors again. He will not have to go and pick the tractor up if it breaks down."

#2 Does any brand tractor dealership "have to" pick up warranty work?

All in all I will agree, your best bet is to buy from a "good" local dealer.


....

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oneace
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2004-09-27          97295

New Holland pay a flat rate for most repairs regardless of hour much time it actually does take. How they figure this time is by having there engineers come up with the most common problems and do a walk through of the repair 3 to 6 times some times more. Then they take the best time and that is what they pay. If you tear down and rebuild a tractor that many times in a row you are going to get pretty quick at it. Where as most dealers MIGHT run across that problem once a year. ....

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earthwrks
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2004-10-02          97552

NH warranty (at least as far as my 2002 TC33D goes): It is a 2 year "bumper to draw-bar" (my terminology) warranty--in fact NH sent me a letter the other day stating I "can see my dealer about an extended warranty".

I don't know about our neighbors to the North, but Oneace is correct when it comes to cars and tractors---and anything else sold by an independent dealer, which dealers are (excluding corporate dealers/stores if any). Generally there is no implied or expressed "contract" between the dealer and the buyer. And technically it's not even a contract between the maker and the dealer (just try to get the "contract" enforced when something goes wrong). Even the selling dealer isn't required to repair the item he sold (with certian legal exceptions)--again, no "contract". However, it is usually in his best interest to do so even if he does take a loss. And as far as "loss" goes, that's an old management trick they use on the employees to justify not handing out raises. If dealers took a loss on warranty work there simply would be no "Service Departments", and for that matter no dealers in general.

For the record I'm a business owner and I DON'T treat my people that way---but I have worked for those who did.
....

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cessna337d
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2004-10-03          97560

I am a NH dealer. Our contract says you will do warrenty work.Recalls are the selling dealer problem. We charge the non purchasing customer the difference between what warrenty pays us and what we would charge a regular customer. the tractors we sell we pay for some claims that are not warrenty or refused warrentyas customer care. We have no reason to do this on a non purchasing customer ....

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Riosman
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2004-10-10          98022

Hello all,
This topic has come up several times on this board. My two cents is it’s a matter of dealers unable to compete with other dealers on the internet. The dealer has a choice to start selling country wide if they choose to do so. Currently Iam trying to make a deal with my local NH dealer. Tomorrow he will give me an offer. Yesterday the dealer did mention that he would NOT fully honor the NH warranty if I purchased the tractor from someone else. They will accept it, but who knows how long it will take or what might happen to the tractor. Bottom line for me is the sales price. The warranty is second on the priority list. Once I’m outside of the warranty period any shop will work on it including NH dealers. Another way to look at this is the jacked up price from the local dealer can be used later for repairs. So buy from the out of town guy and remember the savings which can be used for the out of warranty repairs.
I prefer to buy from the local guy. I’m hoping the local guy can be competitive.


Update: I received the price from the local dealer. The local dealer is 4000.00
dollars more than the internet dealer. I'm thinking if I should deal more with the local dealer. I cant imagine he will be competitive. ....

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oneace
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2004-10-10          98040

Cessna337d what contract are you looking at? I have never seen such a thing. All I get are the phone calls from
NH costumer support asking will you please fix this tractor? All we have to say is well we would love to but we are just too darn busy, they then go down the line to the next dealer. BUT most times we will take the outside work like I said before.

And as far as the loss goes, it is NOT just a ploy to get the employees to work faster or what ever you are implying. I see the paper work I know the numbers. Most warranty job we take between a 5 to 20% loss. Yeah that is just an employee motivator. I really don't care I get paid by the hour no matter how long it takes to do the job. ....

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jummping Jimmy
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2004-10-10          98046

I work a lot out of town,,your telling me im going to have to wait? Chevy and Ford dealers dont do this,,,,,,,,,,why should New Holland dealers do this ....

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lbrown59
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2004-10-11          98069

I am a NH dealer. Our contract says you will do warrenty work.Recalls are the selling dealer problem. We charge the non purchasing customer the difference between what warrenty pays us and what we would charge a regular customer. the tractors we sell we pay for some claims that are not warrenty or refused warrenty as customer care.
1*We have no reason to do this on a non purchasing customer.
cessna337d--------------------------------

2*Yeah ya do.Do you think the non purchasing customer will ever come to you to purchase when its trade up or trade in time after you've refused them warranty service?
What about the purchasing of additional implements parts and service outside and or after the warranty?
And here is a bigge, what about new customer referrals?

I've been in the housing business for over 30 years.
Some of my best customers have been those who bought from someone else.
Why because those people found out I treated them right even when they did not buy from me.



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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2004-10-11          98070

Hey Art-- What is Kubota's ploicy on non-selling dealer warranty work? My dealer is friendly, convenient and local, but what if I move? ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2004-10-11          98072

When I was thinking about buying my second tractor, I was talking to two dealers. Dealer A was 15 miles away and dealer B was 70 miles away. Both dealers were very close in price. I was trying to play both dealers against each other. I told dealer A I was buying from dealer B. Dealer A told me if I ever had any problems with the tractor, he would be more than happy to work on it.

I didn't buy a tractor until a year later and by then dealer A was cheaper and has a heck of a service department. ....

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jamese
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 65 NC
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2004-10-11          98079

ALLTIME,,on the page before this one said it all,,They have to do the work,,only a stupid dealer would put a new owner on the back burner ....

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lbrown59
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2004-10-11          98080


When I was thinking about buying my second tractor, I was talking to two dealers. Dealer A was 15 miles away and dealer B was 70 miles away. Both dealers were very close in price. I was trying to play both dealers against each other. I told dealer A I was buying from dealer B. Dealer A told me if I ever had any problems with the tractor, he would be more than happy to work on it.

I didn't buy a tractor until a year later and by then dealer A was cheaper and has a heck of a service department.
Billy Passmore
=======================
he would be more than happy to work on it- this is why he has a heck of a service department.








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lbrown59
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2004-10-11          98131

Quote
1*(We will do other dealers work but they are normally at the bottom of the list.)
2*Sounds like your dealership is no different than the other ones within 300 miles of you?
That dont sound to me like your trying to make the custimers come back? Sound like its putting them BACK, Way back LOL.
brokenarrow
=====================
1*could be why the purchaser bought from the other dealer.

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lbrown59
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2004-10-11          98132

Quote
1*(We will do other dealers work but they are normally at the bottom of the list.)
2*Sounds like your dealership is no different than the other ones within 300 miles of you?
That dont sound to me like your trying to make the custimers come back? Sound like its putting them BACK, Way back LOL.
brokenarrow
=====================
1*could be why the purchaser bought from the other dealer.

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bellaterra
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 22 Brandon, Mississippi
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2004-10-20          98879

My 2004 New Holland came with a 3 year warranty. 2 year bumper to bumper and the last year engine and transmission. Have it writing also. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2004-10-26          99284

AV8R , sorry I wasn't watching this post to much. Thru the years I haven't found but one company that didn't take care of a warrantee problem but we joke that they don't do any. There product is some of the best made but we just eal with the warrantee and hope that they don't or we don't get caught in a large problem. Dealers that didn't,yes but the company normally does.There are times that warrantee work is questionable, meaning it could have been operator error, at that point I think the dealer that sold you the tractor or knows you the best would be the strongest ally you could have. Relationships are important in all parts of life and when trouble does come, it is important to know who to call for the best results. ....

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