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L3130HST vs JD4310Hydro HELP can t decide

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biljax
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4 washington
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2004-05-01          84869

I'm a new guy to tractors and would appreciate any info to help decide which one. I've done quite a bit of research, drove both models and they seem pretty equal but the electronic stuff on the Deere scares me as well as the narrower track width and the loader mounts. I'll be trying to smooth out 7 acres of uneven ground, skidding logs and clearing brush then maintaining it with a mower when done. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2004-05-01          84871

Sounds to me like you've already made up your mind? If you're not comfortable with the Deere, then go with the L3130HST. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-05-01          84873

Did you miss the electronic dash on the L3130? The track width can often be widened by swapping the tires, as documented in the manuals. What don't you like about the loader mounts? By all means by the L3130 if you're more comfortable with it, but I just wanted to add some perspective. ....

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tileman
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7 florida
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2004-05-01          84879

I got a 3130 about 6 months ago when we were still building our house. Its doing fine with around 160+ hr on it. We have 10ac to bush hog, moved around 55 15yrd trucks of fill dirt and take care of 1/2 mile of dirt road we live on.

Ron. ....

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blizzard
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 282 Central Maine
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2004-05-01          84881

I am the satisfied owner of a L3130HST, now with 396 hours since mid August 2003. The machine has been 100% rock solid so far. Check out my pics and previous posts or for more big (slow on dialup connection) pictures see the link below. Just remember a CUT is not a bulldozer and work slow and safe.
Just my 2-cents
bliz ....


Link:   More_Pictures

 
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TNCHRIS
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 57 upper east tennessee
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2004-05-01          84885

thats the very reason i shyed away from kubotas gst, is the computer contol. the hst is nit operated by a computer. the L30 dash is electronic but will run without it.
L3830 owner ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-05-01          84889

Some have said that the JD 4310 eHydro is the same basic transmission as the older 4300 non-electronic transmission and that it could be retrofitted to operate without the electronics. AFAIK nobody as actually done this. Why would they? The electronic version is easier to operate and has great features like Loadmatch. But with complexity comes more things to break.

That said, I have about 70 trouble free hours on my JD 4310 and am totally happy with it. I found the JD ergonomics to be superior to Kubota's and my local Kubota dealer is a bottom-feeder so that swayed my decision in favor of JD. But if the JD dealer was awful and the Kubota dealer was great I would have gone the other way. IMHO, the quality of your dealer should be a major factor in your decision. ....

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blizzard
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 282 Central Maine
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2004-05-01          84891

Ken,
I too would place dealer reputation/proximity as #1. My comments apply only to my tractor. I am sure Deere, New Holland, Kioti, etc make fine machines.
How do you like your R-1's? Have you chained them up for 'Wet Work'?
82F yesterday, close to that today with a nice warm Southerly breeze. Maybe soon the frost will go out of my materials stockpiles... (:->
Have fun with your Oregon soil.
bliz ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
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2004-05-01          84892

Ken, speaking of Load Match...

I was mowing the yard yesterday and when I got through, I decided to play a little and see just how the Load Match works. There's a hill behind the house that is pretty steep. I'd say around a 20 degree slope.

I backed the tractor down, put it in C range, set the throttle to 1,000 RPMs, turned off Load Match, took off slow and put the peddle to the metal. It took off OK but when I mashed the forward peddle all the way down, it lugged down pretty good and black smoke rolled.

I did the exact same thing only with Load Match engaged. Absolutely no lugging or black smoke.

That convinced me that Load Match actually works and it's something worth having. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-05-01          84893

Bliz, most of us like our machines and are loyal to our brands but I wouldn't hesitate to own any of 'em :)

I haven't yet wished for chains on the R1s. It was a great day yesterday and I spent a couple of hours with the box scraper grading out a road behind our house. There was one area that was mucky and the R1s performed very well. I also drove down to the east end of the property to cruise around an area where the old R4s nearly got stuck in dry conditions. The R1s gave me great traction and confidence. I know these are the right tires for me. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-05-01          84894

Billy, that's been my experience as well. Our land is VERY hilly and I just leave loadmatch on all the time. No matter what range is selected the hills are never an issue. It's a great feature. ....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2004-05-01          84900

Ditto, Loadmatch is a great feature. There is a huge difference with loadmatch on hills and when digging into a pile of dirt. I leave it on all the time also. ....

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biljax
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4 washington
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2004-05-02          84934

Thank you all for your replies.
The mounts on the 3130 where they attach to the engine look a lot more beefy than the JD ones and I was just wondering if anyone knows of any problems in that area on the JD. Also I don't know how hard it is to tip one of these things over so I just assume "wider is better". Other than that it's a dead heat in my mind. There seems to be a lot of experience on this message board and I have none so I really do appreciate your replies. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2004-05-02          84952

I don't think there have been any problems reported with those loader mounts. If you go 4310 the 430 loader is stronger than the 420. What kind of tires are you considering? I can look up the max width setting in the manual for your chosen tire type so you can compare. It's not at all uncommon to adjust the tire width. The R1s I have came with eight position rims so there are eight possible settings, the widest is a lot wider than the narrowest. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2004-05-03          85038

There seems to have been some hesitation as to the electronics here. The Kubota electronics are two different types. The Kubota is for monitoring and the Deere is for operation. There are a lot of differences here! Kubota's dash board if and when they do currently sell for under two hundred dollars with no updates or problems at this time. The favorite old line of they are all about the same is not a realistic claim although highly used. Look at these tractors some more as there is much to learn. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2004-05-03          85065

The electronics issue has been discussed quite a bit in other threads. One issue is that of electronic parts availability 20 years down the road. Most semiconductors made today will be long obsolete by then, so spare parts will become a big issue. IMHO, retrofitting the JD eHydro to non-electronic operation would be easier than retrofitting the Kubota dashboard. But you'd probably trade by then anyway. The JD eHydro is awfully nice, but it does have more to go wrong (sensors, wiring, etc). ....

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TNCHRIS
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 57 upper east tennessee
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2004-05-08          85562

kshcumm,
i usually enjoy your post, BUTT

humm.. lets see what it takes to retro a kubota dash.
1. about 4 foot of wire to go from switch to clutch petal to starter. tractor is now starts safely. cost under $1.00
2. one tiny tach/hourmeter. cost $65.00

is the jd this easy, cheap and fast? mine is running in 15 minutes is yours?

not tring to start a war, just stating the facts to he who speaks blindly.

....

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kwschumm
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2004-05-08          85566

Well, it's all theoretical because parts are still available, but you haven't added water temperature, oil pressure and temperature, fuel level, preheater and pto indicators and probably other stuff. By retrofitting the eHydro to a non-eHydro you'd have all regular tractor functionality and a tractor that looks and works mostly like new. But you're right, if all you want to do is get it running you can work without a dash but you can't work without a tranny. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-05-08          85567

Actually, TNCHRIS, you got me thinking. If the JD eHydro controller was no longer available, and since I develop embedded systems for a living, I'd probably roll my own replacement eHydro controller :) Easier and cheaper than an entire dashboard. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2004-05-09          85591

Ken, I think you might be a very lucky owner, now unless you decided to build your system to still be able use the multi tasing that the Deere electronics allows you to do to improve the tractors performance where would you leave it? Have you had it apart yet to see if there are any areas that might be improved? ....

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kwschumm
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2004-05-09          85594

I have zero ideas for improving performance since I'm pretty happy with it as is. The only way I'd get involved with this would be if I needed a new controller 20 years down the road AND I couldn't find a used one AND I still have this tractor :) If I were to do this it would likely be done simply, taking proportional pedal input and modulating some solenoid outputs. No need to implement LoadMatch, SpeedMatch, etc. unless for some reason I got really interested in the project. As I said, retrofitting on any brand is mostly theoretical at this time - fun to talk about but I don't know anyone who has done it. ....

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TNCHRIS
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 57 upper east tennessee
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2004-05-09          85597

Why sure they have. John Deere retrofitted their name on Yanmar tractors. ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2004-05-09          85601

Hey TNCHRIS

Tell me you're not one of those guys that believe it's either your way or the highway? ....

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kwschumm
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2004-05-09          85603

TNCHRIS, what exactly are you trying to do here? First you say you don't want to start a war, then you try to start one. ....

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TNCHRIS
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 57 upper east tennessee
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2004-05-09          85604

no just a chess match with you.ken. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-05-09          85607

OK, TN, I don't really enjoy chess but I'll bite. It's a little misleading to say the JD's have "retrofitted their name" on Yanmars since JD and Yanmar have had joint engineering offices for 25 years. Yanmar has been building tractors longer than Kubota, 1967 vs. 1969 per their respective web sites. They are a well respected manufacturer that chose to market in the US under an existing brand name rather than go it alone like Kubota did. None of this implies anything about the quality of either brand so this chess match seems to be a draw. ....

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petushead
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 60 michigan
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2004-05-09          85608

I just got a B2910 HST for my dad. We both researched the heck out of the John Deere (4310) and the Kubota..but got the Kubota because all the negative comments regarding the ehydro. To make a long story short I now think many designs on the John Deere are better than the Kubota. My dad and I both hate the clutch and the one on this Kubota is nothing to jump up and down about. The joy stick for the 402 loader is inferior to the location on the DEERE and why does the joy stick on the B2910 make this clanging noise all the time?? drives us crazy. The brakes on this are in a retarded place..next to the foward pedal??...The plastic prevents dents as my dad found out 1hr after using his Kubota and now is the proud owner of a small 1/4 dent in his hood after a rock fell off the loader...The deere might have problems with the ehydro but this tractor in my opinion is better for the money...resale is better for a deere any way...don't make the mistake I did. ....

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TNCHRIS
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 57 upper east tennessee
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2004-05-10          85714

ken don't know where you get your info. BUT. kubota introduced it's first tractor into USA in 1969, that was 8 years after it produced them in japan. the way i count that's 6 years longer than yanmar. Check.
link is to my facts. ....


Link:   just the facts.

 
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kwschumm
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2004-05-10          85717

As I said, I got the info from the Kubota web site, but a reread says they introduced their first tractor in the US in 1969. A quick read did not reveal when they made their first tractor, but maybe I missed it. It still says nothing about quality or lack thereof of either brand. ....


Link:   Kubota info

 
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TNCHRIS
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 57 upper east tennessee
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2004-05-10          85719

hey ken. how bout a peace tready? ....

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kwschumm
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2004-05-10          85720

Fine with me! I'll buy the beer or your beverage of choice. ....

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grassgod
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2004-05-19          86402

I just recently traded in a JD for a 3130 kubota. I agree with the comment about the subframe being stonger looking. The kubota is a solid unit & seems alot tighter then my JD ever did even when new. I do miss the loader joystic location but thats just a matter of getting used to. ....

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biljax
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4 washington
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2004-05-20          86418

I Decided! Thank you all for your input it really did help...I thought I was sold on the Kabota but after revisiting the dealers and driving both again I wound up with the 4310/430 loader/LX5 cutter/R4's...it just "felt" better. They both seem such good machines...I guess what swayed me was just little stuff..the JD's forward reverse pedals, left side brake pedals, loader joystick position, detachable bucket and a bit more compact size. And, oh ya, that green hat! Only have an hour or so on it but I think I'm gonna like it alot. Thanks Again ....

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kwschumm
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2004-05-20          86439

Congratulations biljax! I think you're gonna love that setup. ....

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petushead
Join Date: Apr 2004
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2004-05-20          86468

congrats....wish I had put more time in on it. Hell even the Kubota guy said the Deere had better resale. My dad says he likes his tractor but deep down wishes now he had the 4310 guess we both will need to get use to the short comings on the Kubota. If anyone can figure out how to stop the noise on the joystick please speak up the dealer was no help at all. We got quoted 21,800 including delivery on the Deere but turned it down this included a 420 bucket and RMM. The Kubota was like $1000 less with a MMM including 2 less horses under the hood.enjoy your tractor I only hope my dad learns to enjoy his..wonder if we could return this orange?? ....

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ncrunch32
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2004-05-20          86472

Petushead - I bought my JD 4310 in a hurry. Then I listened to guys like Murf and Art talking up the Kubota over JD. It can drive you crazy! But I do like the 4310. If you and your Dad are really are not happy then call the Kubota dealer and see what what can be done to reverse your decision. ....

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petushead
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2004-05-20          86476

Biljax,
I would not be suprised if Murf and Art are both Kubota salesman along with the makers of this web site. Don't let anyone fool you the component design on of your deere is much better then my B2910 and selling your deere will not be an issue in the future. Kubota might make a dependable machine but when it comes to comfort and joy of use think the Deere beats um up. Relax you made the right decision. I have purchased some ear plugs for the rattling joystick. Enjoy your machine. ....

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ncrunch32
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2004-05-20          86478

Petushead - actually Art does work for a dealership but is professional about his opinions and critiques of different brands. Murf has a fleet of Kubotas and studies their performance vs JD continuously. I have to believe you also have a good tractor there in Kubota. ....

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DRankin
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2004-05-20          86481

I've had both colors.

You can trade your "stick rattle" for a bucket rattle if you want..... neither is perfect. ....

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grassgod
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2004-05-20          86487

Petushed - i just paid 19,400 for my 3130. after owning deere for 5 years & having my hours on a 4310 loaner, I like the wider stance & higher siting for a better view, compparing the 3130 to the 4310. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-05-21          86540

Grass, what style and size of tires do you have on your 3130? That makes a big difference. The 12.4x24 R1s on my JD 4310 set to the widest position added five inches in height and a bunch in width over the original R4s. ....

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grassgod
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2004-05-21          86545

Huh ken, I never would have though R1's would offer a wider stance then R4's, that is interesting. I have R4's. Size 12.4 - 24. The other thing is the BH90 backhoe is so roomy & comfortable...I'm in love! ....

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grassgod
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2004-05-21          86546

Oh by the way Ken, could you please post that link for the grapple again. I thought I added it to my bookmarks but it isn't there. Thanks. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-05-21          86563

Well, the R1's are narrower BUT they are mounted on eight position rims. At their widest setting they are quite a bit wider. I'd have to measure, but you can get an idea by looking at my pic 11. Notice that there are only a couple of inches of tire under the rear fenders. I think you can get 12.4x24 R4s on the eight position rims as well and they'd be even wider.

Here's a link to the BoDozer grapple. ....


Link:   Borgford grapple

 
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candmgam
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2004-06-03          87610

Thanks a lot for advice on CUT purchase from a number of members a few weeks back. I've just ordered a JD4410, 430 loader with JD 4-in-1 bucket, locally-manufactured (Kanga brand) multiclamp (offset and tilt-adjustable rear grader). Main decision drivers were... 35 HP on mid-range frame, excellent treatment (so far) by JD dealer, local farmer reference, plus my (novice) subjective feel of operator position and controls, electronics. I've asked dealer to load rear tires with fluid, and also to set them at max width, for improved stability on my 10 acres of slopes. I just looked at kwschumm pic 11 - first time I've seen what max width setting would look like, and raises the question as to any downside of this width - mechancial, ride harshness, etc. Appreciate any advice - and thanks again for advice to date (sorry to post this on kubota board - no criticism of kubota intended!) ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-06-03          87617

Congratulations Candmgam! You should be well served by your new 4410.

The only downside to the extra width I've found is that it's a bit more difficult to maneuver in tight areas. It's a worthwhile tradeoff for me because it is much more stable on hills than before. In your profile you mention the possibility of planting vineyards, so the extra width will make it more difficult to get between the rows unless you plant the rows wide. I know some manufacturers sell special narrow versions of some machines specifically for vineyards. ....

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candmgam
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 15 South Australia
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2004-06-03          87618

Thanks again - I think I need all the stability I can get as I get used to the equipment. Grape-growing may have to be less intensive, as it will only be part of tractor use. Perhaps with a few hundred hours under my belt I'll feel more comfortable, and reduce the track, but for now....! Cheers from the very deep south - where winter has just commenced, cold and wet, but rarely any snow. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2004-06-03          87691

A lot of people start on the kubota board and move on depending on the advice they choose to take after all, Kubota is the most respected name in this field. The disadvantatages of extending the wheels out to the maximum is the added axle and wheel stress by being offset as much as that allows you to go. It would mostly affect you if you have heavy three point hitch equipment that you regularly operate. Otherwise it will mean you might need to go to wider equipment to cover the wheel tracks while mowing or for what ever tasks you might need to do. ....

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grassgod
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 566 ct
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2004-06-05          87775

I see your point there Art. ....

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candmgam
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 15 South Australia
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2004-06-05          87797

Art, thanks again. I do plan to make regular use of a rear mower/slasher. Not sure where this sits on the 3ph 'heaviness' scale, but it's not a light-weight (locally manufactured, made by Ben-Wye enginering, big supplier to the local wine industry - JD rear mowers don't seem to make it to Australia). I've made my various purposes for the tractor clear to the dealer, and will be buying the slasher from them in a few months. As it's them who will be setting the tractor track width and filling the tyres pre-delivery, I figure that any issue with damage which might occur would be back in their camp - during warranty, or even in the longer term. At least I'll feel that there is a case to make should this ever arise. They certainly didn't comment on the width and tyre loading when we discussed it during the buying process, but I'll raise it specifically with them this week. Once again, the comments are very much appreciated. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-06-05          87802

I don't think you're gonna have a problem setting the tires wide, loading them, and carrying a heavy 3-point implement. I do, and so do others, and my dealer says they commonly set them up this way and have no problems. The wide tire settings are there for a reason and the machine is designed for it. Wide set tires do create a bit more stress but when the machine is designed to handle it there is no problem. ....

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candmgam
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 15 South Australia
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2004-06-06          87835

Yes - it would seem that JD were at risk of a fall if they made a setting available which their engineering design didn't support. I'll still make the point with the dealer that I'm aware that the stresses are higher the way he's going to set the track - at least I'll have the comments on record if ever there is an issue.

I do have a separate question on varying rear grader tilt - vertical plane. As mentioned above, I'm buying a rear grader which is manually adjustable for offset (L-R) as well as for tilt. I figured that with sloping land this would allow me to e.g. cut tracks which were level, even with the tractor on a slope. However, I've been reading elsewhere about a top and tilt hydraulic control (from Integration Engineering) for the 3ph. This seems to be a much superior answer to my tilt needs, but I can't find any indication of price. Does anyone have any idea of a ballpark $ figure - failing that I'll call them direct, just a bit awkward given the time-zone difference.

Once again, thanks all for the help. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2004-06-06          87853

True that they must be built to with stand the wheel setting if they build it. We just see more tractors with axle and wheel problems when they are set up that way. With the proior mentioned posts of the swapping on some tractors every ten years or less then the owners might not have to exerience the problem from the metal fatigue. Bush-hogs/slashers are quite common in Austraila and I found them available at most dealers. ....

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