4610 vs 4720: John Deere Review  -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum and Review 4610 vs 4720: John Deere Review -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum

  parts   |   manuals   |   discussion   |   photos   |   podcast   |   reviews   |   specs   |   dealers   |   classifieds   |   contact   |   faq   |   myProfile   |   home          Login Now | Sign Up


FAQ:   What is a tractor?

Forum Index

Kubota Tractors
  Kubota News
  Kubota Price
  Kubota Review
John Deere Tractors
  John Deere News
  John Deere Price
  John Deere Review
New Holland Tractors
  New Holland Tractor Price
  New Holland Tractor Revie
Other Tractor Brands
  Articulated Tractors
  Belarus
  Bobcat Tractors
  Case
  Cub Cadet
  Hinomoto
  Kioti Tractor
  Long
  Massey Ferguson
  Mitsubishi
  Other Tractor Brands
  Other Tractor News
  Shibaura
  Yanmar Tractors
Lawn and Garden Tractors
  Craftsman
  Cub Cadet Garden
  John Deere Garden
  Kubota Lawn Garden
  Other Garden Tractors
  Simplicity
  Toro Wheelhorse
  Ventrac Lawn Tractors
Antique Tractors
  Allis Chalmers
  Case David Brown
  Farmall IHC
  Ford
  Ford 9N 2N 8N
  Fordson
  Harry Ferguson
  John Deere Older
  Massey-Harris Ferguson
  Minneapolis Moline
  Oliver Cletrac Cockshutt
  Restoration
  Tractor Pulling
Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph
  Back Hoe
  Field Mowers Brush Cutter
  Grooming Mowers Finish Mo
  Loaders
  Snowblowers / Snow Plows
  Tillers and Ploughs
  Tractor Implements
  Trenchers
  Wood Chippers 3PH
Tractor Maintenance
  Diesel Fuel Lubrication E
  Tractor Engine Repair Reb
  Tractor Tires
Utility ATV
  All Terrain Vehicles
  John Deere Gator
  Mule Utility Vehicles
General Tractor
  Farming Ranching Agricult
  Photo Contest
  Size Tractor Needed
  Tractor Projects
  Tractor Safety
  Welding
Chinese Tractors
  Jinma Farmpro Agracat
  NorTrac Tractors
  Other Chinese Tractors
Cars
  All Brands
  Audi VW
  BMW
  Car Tires and Maintenance
  Chrysler
  Exotic, Sports, Racing
  Ford Cars
  General Motors
  Honda
  Hyundai
  Mercedes
  News
  Nissan
  Subaru
  SUV and Trucks
  Toyota Cars
Trucks Trailers
  Chevy Pickup Trucks
  Dodge Pickup Trucks
  Ford Pickup Trucks
  Toyota Pickup Trucks
  Chevy Pickup Trucks
  Dodge Pickup Trucks
  Ford Pickup Trucks
  Toyota Pickup Trucks
Home Building
  Alternate Electric Energy
  Barns Pole Barns
  Buying Ranch Farm Acreage
  Carpentry
  Contractors
  Electric
  Excavation
  Moldings Finish Trim
  Other Home Building
  Pellet Stoves
  Plumbing
  Wood Stoves
Tools
  Electirc Power Tools
  Gas Power Tools
  Generators
  Shop Tools
  Techniques Howto
Landscape
  Flowers Shrubs Garden
  Golf Course Maintenance
  Irrigation Systems
  Landscape Design
  Landscape Lighting
  Landscape Maintenance
  Lawn, Turf, and Grass
  Vegetable Gardening
Construction
  Caterpillar
  Komatsu
  Wheel Loaders
Current Events Health Happiness
  Current Events
  Dogs and other Pets
  Electronics And Computers
  Food
  Health
  Just For Fun Off Topic
  Movies Music Games
  Personal Finance Investme
  Sports Outdoors
Tractorpoint Site
  Member Photos
  Site Members
  Website Operations Howto


New As Posted | Active Subjects



Click to Post a New Message!

Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > John Deere Review Forum

Page [ 1 ] | 2 | | Next >>
Reply | Pop Up Window Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo
 11-05-2004, 10:09 Post: 99868
momeyer



Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lebanon.MO
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 16

3
Filter by User
 4610 vs 4720

Gents,

Am considering upgrading my '03 4610 with 62 hours,loader, and pallet forks to a new '05 4720 with like equipment. I know with such low hours it is not even broken in but, am concerned that the 4610 will be unable to lift 4X5 round haylage bales. Am sure that the 4720 will have enough oomph. Dealer has quoted me a price difference of $10,900. Any comments?

Regards,
Hank






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 11-05-2004, 10:42 Post: 99870
yooperpete



View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Northern Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1413
 4610 vs 4720

Guess I would first investigate the ratings of the tractors and find out for sure the weight of the bales. Maybe the 4720 isn't enough either or maybe you are OK. An earlier thread suggested these bales are real heavy. I don't know that is out of my field of experience. For $10,000.00 you could get a nice older BIG JD 2WD farm tractor. More equipment means more versatility.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 11-05-2004, 10:42 Post: 99871
Billy

TP Contributor

View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Southeast Oklahoma
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 975

5
Filter by User
 4610 vs 4720

I'm pretty sure, if you check the loader specs, the 4610 will lift just as much as the 4720. With the proper amount of ballast, the 4610 will lift and carry a 4x5 round bale. Probably the best thing to do would be to carry one bale on the back and one on the front. Just be sure to leave the back one on until after you unload the front bale.

The 4720 has a lot more HP and torque but produces the same amount of hydraulic pressure. The hydraulic pressure is where you get your lifting power.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 11-05-2004, 10:48 Post: 99873
momeyer



Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lebanon.MO
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 16

3
Filter by User
 4610 vs 4720

Good point about the hydraulics. Need to look into that. Have had no problem picking up the dry 5X6 bales with the 4610, one in front and one in back. Haylage is probably 40% heavier, however. Probably should have confessed up front...actually my wife is advocating the trade. She doesn't like the Power Reverser and wants the hydro...I always end up doing the spade and grunt work anyway...go figure.

Hank






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 11-05-2004, 11:52 Post: 99882
denwood



Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Quarryville PA
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 542

2
Filter by User
 4610 vs 4720

The plus side, the hydro and more HP, hydro alone makes it worth switching. Down side no Yanmar engine in new one. Not that deere is bad but probably none are better than a Yanmar. Also a new model in its first year, can have more issues. If one of these tractors can't pick up your bales, it will be the 400x on the new machine. The breakout strength is when the hydraulics stop moving no matter how much weight you hang on the back. The 460 loader breakout is 3863 pounds and the new 400x breakout is 3506 pounds. They improve things by making them weaker, go figure. It is just the opposite of their skid loaders, whose breakout seems huge compared to years past.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 11-05-2004, 12:25 Post: 99895
Billy

TP Contributor

View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Southeast Oklahoma
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 975

5
Filter by User
 4610 vs 4720

Well Hank, since you fessed up Wink yeah right

I'd go with the 4720 but first I'd also check to see if that 4610 would lift the bales you need to lift. Different types of hay weigh different. If so, the 4720 will too.

The $10,900 difference sounds a little steep. I'd try to talk him down 2 grand, at the least.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 11-05-2004, 12:39 Post: 99897
JimP



Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 58

3
Filter by User
 4610 vs 4720

Hey Billy - just reading through this thread and your comment on needing higher hydraulic pressure to lift heavier loads caught my eye. Are you sure about that?

My understanding of tractor hydraulic systems is that most run in the 2000-2250 PSI range for any size tractor. How much weight a loader could lift would be determined more by the diameter of the lift cylinders than the operating pressure of the hydraulic system. Larger diameter cylinders (along with a beefier loader frame) should be able to lift more weight.

With larger diameter cylinders, one should be more concerned with the GPM output of the built-in hydraulic pump, as it takes more fluid to move the piston the same linear distance. The same size GPM pump on a tractor with a loader with larger diameter lift cylinders equates to slower dump and recycle times.

So rather than looking at the difference is pressure between these two or any two tractors, one should be looking at the diameter of the lift cylinders and the GPM output of the hydraulic pump. I think those two factors will determine the lift capacity and speed of your loader, as opposed to hydraulic pressure.

Please correct me if I am wrong...






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 11-05-2004, 12:55 Post: 99898
Billy

TP Contributor

View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Southeast Oklahoma
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 975

5
Filter by User
 4610 vs 4720

Jim, what I was referring to was the 4720 vs the 4610 and the 400X vs the 460 loader. Both tractors run the same hydraulic PSI, 2,500 and both loaders are almost identical. What I was trying to say is no matter how much HP or torque the tractors have, the lifting power will be the same. You can also change the lifting power by adjusting the relief valve but you might get into a bit of a bind if you adjust too much.

If my memory serves me correctly, the 4720 does have a higher GPM hydraulic pump. The higher GPM pump would not help with lifting power but only speed.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 11-05-2004, 13:12 Post: 99899
JimP



Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 58

3
Filter by User
 4610 vs 4720

Hi Billy - Yes I totally agree. I guess it just must have been the way I read your original post with respect to the context of the original question on lift capacity.

"The 4720 has a lot more HP and torque but produces the same amount of hydraulic pressure. The hydraulic pressure is where you get your lifting power."

and from that my mind formed the conclusion that: higher pressure give you more lifting power!

which we both know for the most part is untrue. No harm, no foul -- we are both on the same page. Just didn't a new owner form the same wrong conclusion that I initially reached when I read your statement. Let my response be some education to some the newer users.

So to answer the original question: are the lift cylinders on the 400X loader the same diameter as on the 460? If so, then you are correct -- I wouldn't expect that loader to be be able to lift much more than what he already has with the 460 loader.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 11-05-2004, 13:56 Post: 99900
denwood



Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Quarryville PA
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 542

2
Filter by User
 4610 vs 4720

I'm still not sure eveyone is clear on lifting power. Higher pressure will definitly give more lifting power. Twice the pressure, twice the lift on identical loaders(you will probably break the loader), its just that you won't get a huge increase in pressure with tractors. cylinder size is bigger= more lift on IDENTICAL loaders but when you switch loader designs completely, loader geometry is important. Larger cylinders may not net more lift if the goemetry is different. Actually the 460 is stronger hydraulically than the 400x, unless the Deere literature is wrong, and I know it is at times.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
Reply | Pop Up Window Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


Page [ 1 ] | 2 | | Next >>

Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > John Deere Review Forum

Thread 99868 Filter by Poster:
Billy 5 | Chief 1 | denwood 2 | JimP 3 | momeyer 3 | plots1 1 | yooperpete 1 |

 (advanced search)

Picture of the Day
videorov

Belarus - Found my one part and looiking for some anothers
Found my one part and looiking for some anothers


Unanswered Questions

Belarus 825 - needs a new clut
Drain Cock
Need more hydraulic flow for s
HINOMOTO HB 501
Belarus 420A - Problems bleed

Active Subjects

460 Long hyd leak
460 axle
Key will not start engine
6x4 engine rebuild vsHarbor Fr
Things we say and what do they
The Plus and Minus of Ignoring
Looking to buy a New Pickup Tr
Need more hydraulic flow for s


Hot Topics

Tractor Category 1 2 3 Hitch s
Duerr hp 678 Chipper replaceme
Gator 620i gas in engine oil
KUBOTA Tractor Trouble Free Qu
Gator 6x4 Overheating problem
Duerr hp 678 Chipper Manual
Adjusting 7308 Pressure Relief
Long 460 hydraulic problem


Featured Suppliers

Mountain Creek Labradoodles
      MountainCreekLabradoodles.com





New Forums on Gun Sport Shooting and Hunting -- BarrelPoint.com  New Forums on Horses ManePoint.com
Talk Horses at ManePoint
Hunting + Gun Sports at BarrelPoint



Most Viewed

+ John Deere 2210 Backhoe Review
+ John Deere vs Kubota Compact Tractors
+ John Deere 790 fuel shut-off solenoid failing
+ John Deere low viscosity HY GARD
+ John Deere JD 4100 Wiring diagram
+ JD 790 or Kubota L3000DT
+ Should I buy a John Deere 4105
+ John Deere 4300 turns over but won t start
+ John Deere 455 garden tractor
+ Oil Change for Diesel Tractor

Most Discussion

+ John Deere 4300 scuffing
+ Possible Solution To The 4000
+ Dealer out to lunch
+ Just got my new JD 4410 - Prob
+ Hello Green Goodbye Orange
+ Receiver hitch for iMatch
+ 4300 wheel bolt problems
+ 4000 Ten Series 50 hour break
+ Don t buy JD compact tractors
+ Oil Change for Diesel Tractor

Newest Topics

+ Oil overflow from tube and Smoke
+ John Deere 4100 gear 3 point not workin
+ 2000 John Deer Gator 4 X2
+ Mini Excavator SY20C - Small Body with Big Power
+ John Deer 1070 starting problem
+ John Deere 990
+ Tractors R Us
+ john deere 4100 with 410 loader hydraulic problem
+ John Deere 2032R Buying advice
+ John Deere 2010 loss of hydraulics
















Turbochargers for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Cab Glass for Tractors and Industrial Machines

Alternators for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Radiators for Tractors and Industrial Machines

Driveline Components for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Starter Motors for Tractors and Industrial Machines