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Just got my new JD 4410 - Problem already Help

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TimInNH
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 19 Canaan, NH
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2002-11-27          45461

I'm definitely not off to a good start... Even before it was delivered (as I said in a previous post), I was called and told that the fan blade cut the coolant hose and they had to order another hose, so it would be delivered a day later.
So, I got home yesterday afternoon for the delivery and the delivery guy mentioned that, if at some point when I start the tractor and it doesn't move forward or backward, I need to shut the tractor off and then wait a couple seconds for the computer to reset and the start it again, it will be fine.
Well, no sooner than they were leaving, I started it up and it wouldn't go anywhere. So, per his instructions I shut it down and then started it back up and it worked fine. But, after shutting it down and then starting it again only 15 minutes later, it happened again!
Knowing that this definitely isn't right, I called the dealership this morning and was told to watch the Onboard Electronic Diagnostic System light and see if it blinks out a code, indicating the problem, which is what I'll do when I get home today.

So, my question is, are there any other owners out there that has experienced this same problem? If so, what was the fix?

Thank you...

- Tim


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C WEST
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2002-11-27          45463

I HAVE A 4210 WITH 126 HOURS ON IT AND I HAVE NEVER RUN INTO A PROBLEM LIKE THAT. ....

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DRankin
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2002-11-27          45465

Tim, I am sorry to bring up a sensitive topic at a time like this.... getting a brand new tractor is like christmas was as a kid.... but maybe this is a good time to reconsider the purchase of a computerized (??!!?)tractor.

I would tell the dealer to come and get it. There must be a law in your state that protects comsumers in a case like this. There is usually a 48 hour or 72 hour reconsideration clause on major purchases.

A normal expectation would be that a brand new machine will at least start and move under it's own power, and guess what? The heads up by the delivery driver can only mean that the tractor did the same thing for them and they could not or did not fix it and palmed it off on you instead.

Delivery of a busted brand new tractor would be a deal breaker in my book. And I just do not understand the need to computerize something so damn basic as a tractor. It is just adding some else to go wrong, as you already know. Sorry. MH ....

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cutter
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2002-11-27          45471

I am not sure that the "backout clause" applies to tractors, it does not to motor vehicles. I know how you feel, my TC was delivered to my home in 3/2000 and would not even start. I refused to take the machine when I first saw it at the dealership, it was delivered to them in terrible condition and they "fixed it". I wish I had walked away from that deal and if I were you, I would try and get out of the one you are in. Ended up costing me another 3k to get rid of it along with the headachs when I switched to another brand, and they ALL have their lemons. I am not sure how many models J/D is computerizing but perhaps you can get one without that feature as Mark suggested. Good luck!! ....

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IRTEXN
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2002-11-27          45474

Tim,
I'm sorry to hear your long anticipated day was ruined. I agree with Mark, tell the dealer to come get it or bring you another one. After all we're talking 10's of thousands here. They knew something was wrong before they brought it out to you. Good luck. ....

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Billy
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2002-11-27          45476

Tim, take a deep breath and relax, everything will be alright. I have a friend that had the same problem as you are having. The dealer had to replace the controller to the ehydro transmission. If you'll watch the Onboard Electronic Diagnostic System light when this happens, it will flash one long and 3 short (or 1 short and 3 long, I can't remember). When you turn the ignition switch off and back on, it resets the computer controller. After they changed this controller it hasn't missed a lick and that's been several hours ago.

It sounds like they have a bad batch of these controllers. As soon as they have enough problems with them, they'll get their thumb out of their butt and go to a different controller.

The dealership should never had delivered that tractor to you, knowing something wasn't right. I wouldn't blame you if you called and told them to come get it and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. But again, maybe it was the delivery guy who was the only one that knew the problem? Either way, it shouldn't have happened.

Billy

....

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Stan
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2002-11-27          45477

TIM
- sorry to hear about your tractor - hope Billy's post gives you some hope.

Laws vary of the right to cancel - in WI autos are specifically covered, and the law requires the purchase contract to say so.

Sounds like you've been really anxious to get your new toy, err I mean tool, hope your dealer or regional rep can solve it with you.

Stan ....

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Billy
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2002-11-27          45478

By the way Tim, you don't have to wait 15 minutes for it to work again. All my friend had to do was turn the key off then right back on. I know this doesn't help much but at least you can use the tractor.

Billy

PS
If you have a problem with your dealer not knowing how to fix it or not believeing you. E-mail me and I'll give you a toll free # and the mechanics name that fixed my friend's. ....

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dsg
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2002-11-27          45479

Tim, Call that dealer and tell him to shove it. I'm a JD fan myself but I think the new 10 series are going to be an Electronic Nightmare. I'm sure Deere will get it right AT SOME POINT, but I don't think the consumer should be the ginny-pig. When I bought my 4700 my dealer told me that if in 30-days for whatever reason I didn't like it bring it back for a full refund or another tractor, Now thats standing behind a sale.

David ....

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Chief
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2002-11-27          45486

Tim,

Check with your John Deere Rep. There is a PIP out for this problem in the 10 series tractors. Very simple fix, replacing a faulty designed switch. Your salesman should be flogged for allowing the tractor to be delivered to you like that. Make the dealer come and get it and tell them not to bring it back until it is RIGHT and provide you a loaner tractor of same class while your 4410 is in the shop. I just purchased a 4410 as well, the sales rep. I purchased it through checked to make sure the PIP was applied to the tractor and no other PIP's were outstanding. The dealer will get it right and you will love the tractor. How did the fan cut the radiatior hose????? ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2002-11-27          45487

Maybe I am just a little suspicious after all those years walking that beat, but I'd bet there is no evidence that there was a coolant leak on this tractor.
Odds are that it was a convienent story because the dealer couldn't get the damn thing to move and had to tell Tim something.
A word comes to mind... dofuss... don't think much of this dealer at this point, and I already spoke my mind on the subject of computerizing tractors, bowling balls, claw hammers and dishtowels. ....

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DRankin
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2002-11-27          45488

BTW, Billy, sometimes you are a better peacemaker than I am. And I think you know what that means. Enjoy your Thanksgiving brother. ....

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larry
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2002-11-28          45497

If they won't come & get it
Take it back to them & put a big lemon on the seat
To bad your happy day was ruined
They should be keeping these tractors SIMPLE
Try to have a happy thanksgiving anyway ....

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MRETHICS
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2002-11-29          45514

I've been tooo busy lately to interact with you folks on this board.....That's a good thing.......

After reading all the responses...I believe Billy Passmore's diagnosos to be correct. A new controler will fix the problem.

As a Dealer, we would have never delivered that tractor. No matter what MAN builds, man is an imperfect creature and there will always be defects. They should be limited of course, but sombody will always get one.

Electronics are here to stay, without them, even this forum would not excist.

There are many people who believe the less electronics involved, the better off we are. All these opinions stem from one issue....reliability...

I will admit, I am one of those people. But I also have wittnessed the improvements electronics have made in my life.

In the early Seventies, my father purchased a new John Deere corn planter. Included in his purchase, was a new fangled Dickey-john electronic box that would beep if your planter failed to drop seeds. I was apprehensive to say the least...........

One afternoon, while planting our corn, the monitor alerted me to the fact one row had ceased dropping kernals. After finding the problem(a drive chain had jumped the sprocket) I resumed planting. However the Dickey-john still reported failure.

After digging up planted seeds in that particular row, and deciding there was a malfuntion in the monitoring device, we spent an hour getting it fixed.

I was fumeing, Time is limited that time of year, and time spent fixing an electronic device, I felt was not needed really frosted me. My Dad was no better, he was already kicking himself for being talked into it by the salesman.

But then it hit me. Under normal circumstances, before the monitoring device, had a row failed to drop, I would have made several passes before getting of the seat, and schecking performance. Once I would have found the problem, It would take some time to find the pass that the planter had failed, then, shutting off all but the rrow that had failed, I would have had to re -plant the last few acres. All that would have taken time. Propbably more time than it did to fix the monitoring device.

As the planting season wore on, it became evident that our acres planted per day had increased. The new planter, and the old were the same size. We were useing the same gear, so speed was the same.

It was clear, the difference was two fold. planter failure was diagnosed imediatly.

The device also earned our trust, thus eliminateing the requirement of stopping every few acres to check performance.

As a salesman, planter monitors are still an option, but every planter we sell, has one.

Electronics are here to stay. The 10 series of compacts have new electronics, thier reliability will only improve. And as reliability improves, the benifits will improve at a faster rate.

Sorry to hear you had problems, don't be discouraged.......things will be ok....cooler heads will prevail.

MRETHICS





....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2002-11-29          45515

I am not sure that we need a lot of electronics on a tractor, but emmissions may soon demand it. Hopefully JD is right and will be ahead rather than behind the learning curve.
Electronic ignitions was mass produced and used on the late 60's outboards. I remember many a customers eyes spin as you told him you had to replace the unit to the toon of $500.
From a historic point of view, the first mass produced cars with electronic fuel injection were the Super Beatle (71-73)and the Volvos (72-73). I assume maybe Porche also had it in that era but I never worked on a Porche so?
The system was made by Bosch and was not very unreliable. When it failed it cost nearly the price of the Beatle to replace. After this early attempt Volvo reverted to the Bosch Mechanical system that was highly reliable. Volkswagon abandoned the Beatle and had not fuel injection for a number of years.
Today almost all the cars have electronic ignition and fuel injection. We turn the key and think nothing of it. The average car lasts much longer than the early 70's.
As I said I hope that JD is ahead of the curve and will profit from their leadership. ....

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John R.
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2002-11-29          45518

Allow me to add more support to Billy's diagnosis. The problem you describe has the exact same symptoms that I experienced on a tractor at work. The dealer mechanic replaced the controller on the advice from John Deere and the problem went away. Push your dealer to contact John Deere. These tractors should perform flawlessly. Once they do, you can't beat them. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2002-11-29          45519

Mr. E, I appreciate your story and it makes perfect sense. I don’t think the seed counter is in the same class as what Deere is doing to tractors. The seed gizmo actually has a real world uses and purpose.

Peters, I don't think all the electronics on the 10 series has anything at all to do with engine emissions.

I see the stuff Deere is doing as a sales gimmick, as a way of distinguishing themselves from the competition.

Deere has some serious challenges to face in this chunk of the market and most of those challenges center on issues of quality and price. They have chosen to counter with gadgets rather than going head to head on quality issues. Instead of building a better tractor they hung a bunch of tinsel on it and hired some babes in bikini’s to caress it on camera.

Pretty soon they will have to resort to what Dodge does to sell trucks these days: throw in a free cruise to Mexico, and ice chest full of beer, a free bed liner and a facelift for your wife or your mother (your choice, of course) for only one dollar more. Meanwhile, down the street, Toyota can’t keep trucks on the lot for more than 24 hours because the people who line up to buy them are desperate for quality and they are tired of clowns, balloons, dancing girls and dealers eating bugs.

So here is my prediction. I don’t expect computerized green tractors will totally fail in the market place, because of the company history and the fact that some folks are attracted to the glitter. After all, Dodge is still selling trucks to somebody out there.

But I do think the 10 series will be rather under whelming, sort of like new Coke a few years back. In a couple or three years Deere will be forced to do a market study to discern consumer perceptions. Then the light will come on and they will introduce a brand new old style retro tractor from the “simpler days way back when, not exactly your grandpa’s tractor but simple, rugged and reliable… things the John Deere name have always embodied.”

Maybe they can take a Kioti apart and figure out how they do it.

Except I’m not so sure how many people know what ‘embodied’ means anymore.

Then this nonsense will slowly fade from the market place and the 10 series will go the way of Edsels, pet rocks, new Coke, blue Pepsi, fondue pots and window screens for submarines.
....

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Peters
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2002-11-29          45520

Ok Mark;
I said I hope, not I think. I would like JD to concentrate on quality and features that are usable not gimics.
I am impressed with the standards that Kioti offers on the DK series such as impliment light, mid PTO, rear hydraulics etc all of which are high price extras on other tractors, having beer coolers, cup holders and electric gizmos on my tractor are not necessary unless I am putting days in the seat like a farmer does.
Peters
....

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Bob S
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2002-11-29          45522

I have had my 4310 for about 6 weeks now. I remember that the first day or so I had the same starting problem and then it just went away. In my case, I think the fault was mine. For example, I may have been pressing both pedals at the same time etc. In any case the problem will be resolved and Iam sure you will be pleased with your purchase. Good luck. ....

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cutter
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2002-11-29          45524

I guess I missed the connection between Dodge, John Deere and Toyota Mark, but if you want to compare my Dodge to the Deere and the Kioti to Toyota I'm game, I've owned all but the Kioti. I would more connect the TV ads for lawyers/politicians to the gimmicks that ALL brand automakers use to sell their wares. But enough on the "car wars" subject, no-one will ever "win" that argument any more than they will with tractor brands.

I owned one of those Johnson outboards Peters, the power pack needed replacement on mine at about four year of age. I was not a happy fisherman!

The issue at hand is wheather or not the electronics are needed to meet certain operational criteria dictated by government mandate/emision standards or are they simply glitter. If you recall, in the 70's the auto makers were forced to use the public as a testing ground for new electronic engine controllers to meet impending emission standards. This was not the way to introduce the population to it, but unfortunately I am not so sure the auto industry would have done it on their own, without the mandated deadlines. I recall the average mileage on my full sized 1970 Chrysler with 383 engine as being 18. My 1974 3/4 ton Power Wagon with 318 (that was exempt from the emissions standards) was 18 as well. Once the auto makers were into full swing with the electronics, gas mileage dropped considerably across the board. I owned a 1/2 ton Chevy for a few months between new vehicles, with a standard shift 6cyl. motor I got 11 mpg. Large cars and trucks lost several mpg on average. The only one ready for the phony "gas crisis" at the time was the Japanese auto maker, everything they sold was a four banger.

What you say is true Peters, the electronics are so refined now we take a good running vehicle for granted and when it quits you call the flatbed because filing the points won't help. If J/D is testing this garbage on the cutomer and there is no need for it being there, it may come back to bite them, but my guess is that they will suffer some setbacks due to their exploit of the end user as the testing ground and when the bugs are out it will become an industry standard for top of the line equipment. I don't want the glitter on a tractor and if Kioti is the only one left making "nuts and bolts" equipment should the time come that I trade, that is what I will buy. What you say Mark about a bare bones machine for Deere down the road follows along with what N/H just did, and they are (were?) the most option laden machine on the market I believe. ....

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Billy
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2002-11-29          45525

Are the electronics on the new JD's glitter or do they serve a purpose? In my opinion they serve a purpose.

The ehydro controller was created because enough people complained about the force needed to operate the forward/reverse pedals on the 4000 series hydros.

The electronic cruise control speaks for itself.

The MotionMatch switch gives the user a choice of how fast or slow he wants to take off or slow down.

The push button MFWD switch has been out for ages, on trucks (I don't know why though).

The LoadMatch switch is to help keep the engine from stalling during heavy load use.

Billy

....

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Billy
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2002-11-29          45526

Will Kubota start incorporating electronics into their new tractors? They did, with the new Grand L series. The instrument panel is all electronic gauges, except for the tach. Probably nothing behind it but a big circuit board. I'm sure JD will have that next.

Billy
....

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DRankin
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2002-11-29          45528

Sorry about the Dodge crack, Cutter.

In my family we have had real trouble keeping transmissions in, and paint on, Dodge trucks. And there have been multitude of other problems related to fuel pumps and injectors and fuel flow from partially filled tanks.

In Reno we have a Dodge dealer who literally runs ads as I described: "free" tool boxes, bed liners, gambling junkets, ocean cruises, computers, etc. It's the only way they can compete, apparently.

It is the last place I would look for a vehicle, and the dead last on my list of desirable trucks.

I also acknowledge Peters theory that if you stay away from their automatic transmissions that you can avoid a lot of problems.

Thankfully, I get by nicely with the 7200 pound towing capacity of Toyota’s largest truck. If I had a multiple horse trailer or needed a bigger tow package I don’t know what I’d do.
....

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cutter
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2002-11-29          45529

No offense taken, I learned a long time ago not to wear my feelings on my shirtsleeve. That battle/debate between the trucks/cars will never be over and until one of them mails me my paycheck, I express an educated opinion based on experience and let it go at that. Not only have I owned pretty much every brand on the road, but my company has a very large fleet of all sort of vehicles, so my experience in that is fairly broad. I could tell you endless tales of multiple transmission failures, lousy engines and any other major component you may want to include, they ALL have their bad times. I tended bar as one of my two full-time jobs when my family were young and I were penniless. Used to sit back and watch the fights break out when the truck/car/whatever "debates" turned nasty after a few too many liquid depressors. Could never figure out why it was always the same people, they never learned and are still waiting for that first paycheck from Ford!

I hope everyone had a great day with family yesterday, I did. Both my boys were back in town and we were short only one nephew (submarine still out to sea) to complete the entire family roster. God Bless America! And Canada Too! ....

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TomG
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2002-11-30          45535

Click on the link for my pic of gadgetry from a historic perspective. It's a fine gadget. As I understand, the belts that go off the picture extend quite a ways. The length is intended to keep the tractor from igniting dust clouds. Well, I know it's not the same subject discussed here but I thought the pic might be interesting.

From a historic perspective, I imagine that the original owners of such equipment probably complained when equipment broke down. It probably was also easy to forget that the difficulty in maintaining equipment was considerable less than the raising of a half-dozen kids or so that it took to keep a farm working. My folks pre-dated this sort of equipment on the farm. In comparisons with gadgets, kids have their own reliability problems or so the stories go.

Almost all technologies start out cranky and must be operated by technicians, but they mature and become self-sufficient and the need for technicians disappears. Early office PC users were usually surrounded by a cloud of systems support specialists--talk about aggravation. 'Chauffeur' originally was a technical elite specialist since few owners could deal with early cars. The word actually means 'stoker.' The position reinvented itself into a status affectation when auto technology started tending itself. We're still in the infancy of chip technology as applied to consumer products.
....


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cutter
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2002-11-30          45538

That looks like something I have seen in an abandon field around here, but then there is a good deal of abandon farm machinery in my area and since it is not my forte, much of it looks the same to me.

You are of course correct Tom. Technology gets better but when it breaks it is "harder" or more complicated to fix, but if the relibility goes way up the cost averages out or declines and you can count on making it the airport on time besides. My pet peeve is the fact that many machines/products are designed with a specefic lifetime in mind for whatever reason and the old one is designed to be so expensive to repair you have to replace it instead. I am far and away no tree hugger but that seems to me to be a real waste of resources. Some of my friends call me cheap because I constantly fix things to see how long I can keep them around. Back in the day of that old thresher you can bet nothing was thrown away, including the clothes that were passed from oldest to youngest child! ....

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DRankin
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2002-11-30          45545

Tom, when I was a kid they were still using machines like that. I can remember those belts flapping, always seemed a bit dangerous. I also recall crawling inside one of these things and playing in there while it sat idle in the off season. ....

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Peters
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2002-11-30          45550

Cutter;
Todays many of todays designs are not built for repair, like the old computer they are disposable.
I bought and installed a new dishwasher the other day. All the electric motors and pumps were single units not ment to be repaired. Any one repairing the washer will pull the defective component off and toss it and then replace with a new one. Probably each of these components cost near 1/2 the cost of the dishwasher.
This design philosophy is the one created by the Japanese engineers and society. In the 70's my dad called them disposable cars. Dispite vast improvements in longevity, few Japanese cars will make it to be antiques, the cost of the used parts will probably mean that they will be scrapped. Unfortunately the same can be said for a lot of late model domestic and european cars these days.
Well the design philisophy will probably change again when the new electric and hybrid cars take to the road. When the motors out live the normal life of the car, people will begin to consider repair.
It is interesting to see that life cycles of an electric rail car and a diesel electric train or truck.
I am not sure what the driving factors are towards increasing SUV sales. Basicly the new SUV's are similar to the large full size station wagons that we rejected a few years ago for the minivans. I guess there is some comfort in 4x though I suspect some of it is the perception that they can work on it themselves, despite the added complex nature of 4x. ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2002-11-30          45551

Back to the main problem with the JD4410. If the plug and play problem is rectified by the new controller. What percentage of the tractor cost is the new controller. If it is a few dollars and the problem is like changing a light, I guess we can live with it. If the controller is hundreds of dollars, then my opinion and probability of buying a JD4#10 is diminished significantly. ....

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cutter
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2002-11-30          45552

You know Peters, I have done a good deal of thinking about that SUV thing and this is what I believe to be the driving force, so to speak;

Take my big rear drive, high torque, V-8 passenger car or station wagon that would haul the kids, tow my boat, take the family and all the gear camping along with the canoe on the roof rack (I know because we did it) and do away with it to meet CAFE requirements and shut the Nader bunch up.

Replace it with a tin box sporting a feeble 4cyl or feckless V-6 transaxle drop in unit that fits every car in the manufacturers line. "I am not happy with this thing, I will buy a Jeep Cherokee, Ford Bronco, Chevy Blazer that resembles my old station wagon!"

The war to make a utility 4x4 that has all of the luxury of a by-gone era passenger car begins and everyone in the world that makes automobiles jumps on board because they sell like hot cakes. The people want them, the market dictates what sells and what does not.

The green people are not happy with this turn of events so they rename them SUVs to allow them to be lumped into a group and demonized for being gas guzzling, terrorist hauling urban assault vehicles that give the driver a better chance to live than the vegeterian in the Yugo, NOT A FAIR FIGHT.

There was an article in yesterday's D&C written by a NY City babe that referred to them as though they were alive and she feels we should kill them all. Unbelievable!

I can't believe they will be around for much longer before the government requires them to be a certain size (much smaller) or you will pay a huge tax to own one. Of course, that is just the opinion of a country hicccck that already has too many opinions.

By the way, doesn't the electric to run those green cars come from smelly power plants and dirty nukes, or can they run on garbage like the professor's Delorean in "Back to the Future"?
....

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DRankin
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2002-11-30          45553

I went back and carefully reread Billy’s post with the explanations on all the electronic features…….. And I asked myself a question. How many of these devices would be necessary if the tractor had a clutch and a ‘gas’ pedal?

The entire engineering thrust seems to be focused on the ability to use a hydrostatic transmission in a smoother and more efficient manner. Apparently as it is currently built, it is too hard to push down, starts and stops too abruptly, and stalls the engine when a sudden heavy load is encountered. So all of this additional stuff is required so that mere mortals can actually operate the HST?

Now we have all of this stuff….. AND…… an HST, just to replace a clutch pedal?

Is this an accurate assessment?
....

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DK35vince
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2002-11-30          45555

That is how I take it Mark.
Making the hydro just that much more expensive !! ....

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Bob S
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2002-11-30          45557

A guess as to what a new controller might cost to munfacture might be in the $75- $150 range. Although I have not yet looked into what the 10 series has installed, my job is desiging controllers for other applications that sould be of similar complexity. That means a dealer cost of about $250 and a cost of over $300 for you and I. But that $300 would be the cost to replace the controller without the credit of returning the bad one. If the controller just needs a software (firmware) update, then the replacement cost with a returned unit should be less than $75 for us. Guess we will see how JD handeles this in time. Hope this helps. ....

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Peters
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2002-11-30          45567

Mark;
I am even more confused than you as my JD 955 does not have excessive pressure to control the HST. Has a mechanical link to operate the cruise. I have pushed the tractor once or twice to stall it but need the tractor in low and push directly into an inmovable object.
Cutter;
I am afraid, I understand too much or have too much experience to be blown by the wind or be fixed in a position 30 years old. I believe that we need to control air pollution. I also believe that most in the US have no concept of what clean air is. The only place that I have found what I took for granted on the Westcoast as a kid or TomG's neck of the woods was the beach in California if the wind was blowing in the right direction.
Why is this a concern? The fact is that anything that we breath has a direct conduit into the blood stream and our bodies. I can eat or drink a lot of toxins and our digestive system should manage them. Our lungs have no real mechanism to control contaminates but mucus and slow metabolization.
Does it make it safer to have everyone driving large trucks. Should we all switch to Mack trucks to reduce the risk? I think this is down to the axom what is good for one is not necessarily good for all. Rolling 3-4 tons of vehicle down the road to protect one person is not what we can call good use of resources.
Do I think everyone needs 4x? No. What we need to do is to properly teach people how to drive. I had one 4x and used it to go skiing in Whistler, Mt Washington, Mt Baker etc. But I decided that after a few years that the I never really needed it as the BMW's, Datson 510 etc. of the harded ski bums regularly passed by me.
Am I happy with the current crop of cars? Well I have only owned on front wheel drive car, although I travel a lot and have driven most of the lastest model cars as rentals.
I am prone to by a Lincoln LS just to support what I believe is the right way to design NA cars.
Finally the idea of cleaner electric cars is to utilize the energy that is produced today at off peak hours to charge batteries. As you may know you can not spool up and down a power plant like the accelerator on you car, therefore the power produced today and not sold at off peak hours is dumped into the ground. Don't you think it would be better to utilize this than dump it?
I am one of the lucky few in this country that has been allowed to drive a new generation electric vehicle. The Pininfarina with NiMH batteries would travel 0-60 in 5 secs. It has a top speed of 100 mph and a 250 mile range. It has little noise as it travels down the road to the point that the air fan and tire noise seems loud. A car like this mass produced would cost less than a regular gas vehicle. What is the down side? Commuting I normally do not run more than 120 miles a day.
....


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Billy
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2002-11-30          45568

OK guys, give me a break here. I said the electronics have a purpose. I didn't say electronics are better. I had a Ford Bronco II one time, with all the electronic crap. It was a total nightmare.

Since I own one of these electronic JDs, I'm hoping for the best. So far so good. The worst thing that could happen is something would go out. If it does, I feel JD will stand behind their product. I've heard of JD replacing hydro transmissions, even after the warranty was out. They did this because they knew it was a design flaw.

Billy ....

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cutter
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2002-12-01          45580

This is just conversation Billy, we sort of get off the subject sometimes.

Peters, I don't disagree with you regarding air polution and the point I am trying to make regarding the automobiles is that they now start and run great besides meeting CAFE standards. I don't believe what has been offered in the past met consumer needs, that is why the demand for a larger vehicle (have you ever seen a minivan stuck in a launch ramp). I don't believe everyone should drive a Mack truck that is quite a stretch, don't think I said that, but everyone should have a CHOICE in what they drive and not be legislated into a cracker box. The "SUV" my wife drives achieves an average of 20MPG, can tow a trailer, haul the grand kids, has rear wheel drive and a stump pulling engine. I will have to look this up for sure, but I believe amount of poultion from auto emissions since the 60's has declined over 90%, again that number is from memory and could be off.

I am sure there must be cases of power plants "dumping" power in some areas but I doubt that is the norm any longer, just look at the brown-outs in the west after California forced the utilities to sell off their power plants during deregulation. I doubt anyone was "dumping" power rather than selling it.

One option that has been available to customers for years is called a "time of use" meter. This meter allows the concerned consumer to transfer load during the "off-peak" demand times of evening and weekends and gives them a considerable discount for doing it. I have my hot water tank running strictly on off-peak and we run our dryer and pool filter only when we are utilyzing it. I can tell you that for all of the customer's homes I have visited, and they are in the many thousands, I doubt five percent of the consumer base bothers to participate. The remark I usually hear is "it is too much of an inconvenience."

I commend you for wanting to own an electric car, you are doing what you feel is the right thing, true to your convictions. There are other ways to participate as well, unfortunately most people don't want the inconvenience.

As far as "teaching everyone to drive", that in itself is a hopeless cause. It is like teaching a work ethic, if you have no interest in doing it or think you don't need it you aren't going to allow someone to convince you otherwise. I don't have a problem driving a small transaxle car with a 4cly.(did it for years) or a hybrid if it meets my needs, once the bad drivers are all off the road. I have had too many close calls involving the "other driver" and finally decided I did not want my wife or myself at risk any more than absolutely necessary. I don't heal as quickly as I used to and she is a beautiful woman whom I cherish, I refuse to put her at risk.

....

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DRankin
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2002-12-01          45591

Billy, we are not ragging on you. And not really on your tractor either. Just exploring the whys and wherefores. You are an important and experienced voice here and I look forward to hearing what is on your mind. I read everything you offer us.

Peters, when they legislate Suburbans and Explorers out of existence, do you really believe they will leave our full-size pick-ups behind?

This whole thing is really about class envy and not the environment.
If THEY live in some small apartment that can only accommodate a small dog then what gives you the right to have a big dog? Talk about a waste of valuable dog food resources! And those BIG piles of dog crap are just excessive, especially when you consider anything over 2 ounces is probably nearing critical mass for methane production which everyone knows is a greenhouse gas.

Don't even tell THEM you use your dog for hunting, because you can just damn well go the the grocery store like THEY do. And protect the family while you are away? Ha! Just call the police, don't you know anything about life in a modern society?

If THEY have 2.3 kids, drive a Tercel, and hire out their window washing.... WELL, then THEY see no reason what so ever for you to have 4 kids and haul/install your own siding, sheet rock or plywood.

And Tractors?? What do you think you are? Some kind of Farmer? Everyone knows that farming is done by big corporations with thousands of acres. THEY seem to manage with a garden spoon and one of those fold up rakes……. What’s your problem?

Study the demographics of the last two or three elections and tell me I am wrong,
Please tell me I am wrong.

Anyway we are way off topic. I want to hear from Tim about what is happening with his new tractor. Are you still with us Tim?
....

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cutter
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2002-12-01          45593

Certainly some excellent observations on how a certain segment of society views things Mark. And the nice part is, no one here has offended anybody. That is what makes this board so great. Really intelligent people that live in the real world that can discuss, debate, analyze and move on. ....

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TimInNH
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2002-12-01          45598

Hi All -

I'd like to thank everyone for their reply to my question about my 4410. Wow, this turned into quite the thread!

Billy - Thanks for setting my mind to ease with your information about your tractor having the same problem and it being a fairly easy fix. I only wish my dealership (LF Trottier & Sons in South Royalton, Vt) knew enough to check into this problem, before they delivered the tractor. Hopefully, they will get this all done in a timely fashion, but since they have been closed since Thanksgiving, I'll have to call first thing on Monday morning to check into this.

€hieƒ™ - Thanks, I'll definitely tell them about the PIP out for this problem with the 10 series tractors and see if this will help speed things up.
As far as the radiator hose was concerned, they said that the original hose wasn't correctly positioned and the corner of the fan blades cut it (I can see this on the corners of the blades where it hit the hose)

Yes Mark, I'm still here and just reading all the assorted posts... :-)

I will definitely write a new message to post the results, once they get everything working right.
In addition to this problem, I've also noticed a few other things that I'll be asking about. For one, the ballast box that was put on, is basically 'stuck' on the hitch. I did manage to get one box 'pin' out of the hitch, but I had to use a claw hammer for prying and a block of wood to whack on the hitch. 15 minutes later, I got it off. BUT, I can't hardly even budge the other side. So, I'm going to also leave this for them to fix...
And, one other thing that I noticed, and maybe I should ask it in another post, or just wait to see what the dealership says, but I found that the 'float' position that I can easily find with the stick will only be there when the engine is 'off', but, when it is running and I try to lower the snowblower to the float position, it just doesn't exist. The best that I can do is to just ease it down until I 'think' that the weight of the snowblower is on the ground. But, if I ease it any more than that, it will take the front tires off the ground.
Maybe I'm not getting how this is supposed to work, but I thought that notch that I can fell on with the stick (when the engine isn't running) is supposed to be for the snowblower to rest on the ground. But, this just does not seem to be happening when I try it with the engine running.

Thanks again everyone and I'll post my results when I find out what's happening.

- Tim ....

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Chief
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2002-12-01          45599

I pretty much agree with Mark. First thing is.........this discussion has gotten WAY off topic!

Second thing is... since when did the John Deere discussion board become a left wing liberal/socialist/Marksist extremist sounding board?????? This may apply to some.....not all.....if the shoe fits......where it.

In the last 30 or so years, I have witnessed the steady and sure errosion of my God given Constitutional liberties by thinking just like what I am reading about right here on this discussion board. I speak from experience of living in several countries around the world that I have been assigned during my now 21 years of service in the Army.

Not trying to attack anyone personally......just stop and think about what you are saying. I LOVE having a choice. That is what America is all about. If I choose to drive my Dodge Cummins HO 2500 4 x 4; I do it. If I choose to drive my Nissan Pulsar 2 seater 1600cc, I do it as well. It is MY choice, not big brother's!

Thirdly.....if you want a simple tractor.....buy a JD 790 or 990. I love my 4410, it runs great and hasn't given me a minute's worth of trouble. I just purchased 15 JD 4710's for the 101st Airborne Division and they love them too. They use them for towing helicopters as heavy as 50,000 pounds without any trouble. The ehydro is what allows them to do this safely and with greatly reduced risk of damage to the aircraft.

In the future, PLEASE. How about let's leave this kinda stuff on the OTHER topic discussion board? Thanks for allowing me to get this off my chest. A Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all! :) ....

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DRankin
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2002-12-01          45601

Chief, I think it is all connected and all valid. We certainly dispelled the notion that we are dealing with emission control gadgets didn't we?
But now that you have introduced a new wrinkle to the thread: I have been wanting to ask you if you added any equipment to enable a 3500# tractor to safely tow a 50,000# eggbeater?

That would about the same as me pulling a 20,000# load with my BX.

Did you rig them to tow from the front, the back or both? What type of tires? How about counter weights or ballast boxes to improve traction? Do the hydros overheat on hot days? Do you rely on just the tractor brakes to stop the whole load? Or is there a limit placed on the towing ground speed?
....

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larry
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2002-12-01          45602

Sounds like you have more than 1 problem with your Deere ....

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cutter
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2002-12-01          45603

My fault Chief, I stepped right and should have stayed on the subject rather than the why of it all. ....

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Peters
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2002-12-01          45605

Well Chief I suspect that you are name calling on me, but obviously have little understanding of the problems and no inclination to try and find solutions. Frankly I saw no comment I made as political. If you do little reading on the board you will also find I drive a Cummins powered Dodge 3500. I also have had Volvo's for the last 25 years, for protection mostly, but they all go about 30 mpg and I never thought I gave up a thing as a blew most NA cars. The one Toyota I had folded up like a beer can in an accident and I thought twice of allowing my wife to ride in another.
Chief, you claim to have lived in other countries around the world. Have you? Or did you live in little americas on some base. Gone everywhere and nowhere. How many life-long friends have you from these countries in which you were a guest? I hate to burst you bubble but I have met a number of ex military noncomes with the same flare for words and ignorance. I did a lot of work for with Aberdeen.
Cutter;
Yes significant amounts of power are dumped at off peak hours. You either need peak load systems that you can spool up to meet the load or you have to dump the load. The only sytems that are capable of meeting these loads are the hydro electric (10% of cap) and the gas turbines (>5%). The nuclear and coals generators (steam generation) can not adjust fast enough. Depending on where you live the electrical demand can fluctuate as much as 50%.
Again what is right for a percentage of the population will not necessarily be right for all. Obviously the amount of power dumped will not meet all the transport needs.
What I was trying to relate is that the electric vehicles are not necessarily mean we need to give up anything, but could gain performance and driving comfort. The case in point below is Zytecs Lotus Elise demo car. Price it like a Mazda Maita amd increase the range slightly. Wow.
It may not do all the chores but I wouldn't mind commuting to work in one or running to the corner store.
Maybe an electric compact tractor is not that nuts. If you know the technology, it would be quiet, reliable and have a low CG. I would not mind mowing the field and listening to the birds rather than the diesel. As the tractor is fairly efficient and already a vast improvement over a small gas engine, it really has nothing to do with the environment.
In the field of plastics the manufactures are moving from hydraulic molding machines to all electric systems not necessarily for energy savings.
I think there needs to be economic incentives to move to better technology. Can we continue to subsidise gas and not weigh the true costs, be it lung problems, dependance on other nations or placing young men in uniform at risk. ....


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Chief
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2002-12-01          45608

Peters,

In 21 years I lived in military housing twice and it was manditory due to being on an unaccompanied tour . Lived off post in Germany for 8 years, met my wife there, even got my German hunting license/certification. 1 year in Korea, 2 years in Honduras, 1 year in Saudi Arabia (spent most of my time on first up medevac duty out in the desert or maintenance test flights)

Don't get me wrong, I am not against progress.....just want it to come from a free economy and not be clubed up side the head with it from "Big Brother". Take for example something as common sense as seat belts (a huge step for auto safety). I never drive without wearing one, however, I strenuously object to and find it outrageous that the government passes laws requiring us to wear them when a simple provision from the auto insurance companies voiding or limiting your medical and liability coverage if you drive without a seatbelt would solve the problem. Same thing goes for cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, etc. if you abuse them, your health insurance could void or limit your coverage. Would really make you think twice about alot of things.

Anyway, perhaps I was a bit overly piqued on the subject. I pointed out ideas that are not main stream using adjectives which some may not have liked. If anyone took that as name calling, my apologies, I had no intent to offend or disrespect anyone here. This is a great forum with alot of experience and information available.

Mark,

We rigged the 4710's with pintle hitches front and rear. R4 industrial tires front and rear. Approx. 200 lbs. of wheel weights on each rear tire. The ehydro's do not over heat as the transmission controllers modulate the hydrostatic motors so the engine maintains RPM; under a heavy load the tractor will perform at the limits of the transmission and bypass the remaining trans. oil to the cooler. At least that was how it was explained to me. The tractor brakes are the primary brakes but the ehydro automaticly brakes the tractor by applying reverse torque to the transmission to assist with slowing to a stop. The motion match swith gives 2 engagement/decelleration rates. Usually the brakes are not used or required. There are blade walkers on each blade for clearance safety, a soldier rides in the cockpit to apply brakes if needed (ie: if the tow bar were to break....never seen it happen yet) and one soldier to provide headset como or hand signals to the driver of the tractor and the soldier riding brakes in the cockpit. Towing speed is STRICTLY limited to a max. of 5 mph or brisk walking speed for the wing watchers, which ever is less. It looks like we may need to get some front weights for the tractors towing (pushing) Ch-47's because the front end tends to lift off the ground if you try to push too hard or fast.

As far as the technology change discussion goes, I can tell you that it was a HUGE jump for me going from UH-1's to UH-60 Blackhawks. The instruments went from guages to Marconi LED strips. The lighter weight materials of the rotor system made autorotation very difficult to adjust to. The engine controllers went from mechanical to digital. Alot of things changed but after all the cussing, studying to the new stuff, and training to become proficient on the new helicopter; I would not want to fly in any other helicopter now. I have had a few experiences that made me a "man of steel" (got the rust stains in my drawers to prove it), but any man made machine can break down and have failures. My training got me through the mishaps. Likewise, a little study and training on these new tractors will build confidence in the equipment. I went with these tractors for the Army because I felt it was one of the few pieces of equipment the soldiers probably could not tear up. So far the battalion commanders, company commanders, and the soldiers love them. I had to fight like hell to get them because Dept. of Contracting kept trying to force us to get New Holland TC45D's. That is another story. I worked for Mid Atlantic Equipment in Fairfax, VA a few years as a mechanic prior to enlisting in the Army. They sold John Deere yellow line equipment. I saw alot of different brands of equipment come and go. The only competition John Deere had was and still is Catapillar. I'll keep you guys posted on how these 4710's hold up. They may be taking a little trip to the desert in the future. This should really put them to the test:)

This will be my last reply for a week or two. I have to go to Walter Reed Army Medical Center to take care of some medical issues. Again I apologize if anyone took offense to my last post. You all take care and have a Merry Christmas!

....

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DRankin
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2002-12-01          45609

I, for one, do not think Eric is a LWL/S/ME. Or even close, and I reckon I know one when I see one.
In my book he is OK, even if he does drive Dodge truck. By the way Peters, which of the above mentioned incentives did you avail yourself of? Too bad they don't offer some sort of poisonous snake warning device you could attach to you kids belt. Now that would be some useful technology. ....

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TomG
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2002-12-02          45621

Tim: I'm not certain about the ballast box problem. It does sound similar to some of my early difficulties. If a 3ph is set down and the side level doesn't match the ground, one of the lower-link pins can bind. I have a crank side-leveler and usually I can release a pin by changing the level. The first summer I had the tractor, I used to change 3ph implements accompanied by prybars, hammers and drift punches. It's a rarity for me now to have to lever an implement around to make the lower pins when mounting an implement and the pins are always finger loose to take them out. If this is the problem, there are a few tricks where the learning just comes naturally after doing it a few times.

I guess the blower is front mounted and uses the loader hydraulics. When I first got my used Ford, I couldn't figure out the float either. Somebody had the hoses for the roll back on the valve with float, so the roll back floated but the lift didn't.

If there's not a definite detent position on the lift control that the joystick stays in then that might be what's going on with your blower as well. The solution would be just swapping the lift and bucket hoses. Otherwise, there may be a linkage problem and the valve isn't actually being placed into float.

Another hose sort of thing is that my float detend is past the end of the lower control range on my loader. I push the valve handle (I don't have a joystick), the loader lowers and then it goes into float and flops on the ground. However, it would work opposite if I reversed the cylinder hoses on the lift valve. A cylinder under load will release its pressure and will move when its valve is operated even when the engine is off. Usually you see it when loaders or 3ph's are left up when the tractor is off. Working the valve will lower them just fine. If there's down-pressure on the blower it will release if the valve is moved through lift even when the engine is off and that might seem like it's floating.

I guess this is a long post, but I'm a piker in this thread. I don't think I'll feel guilt about using too many words here ever again. Yikes guys!
....

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DRankin
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2002-12-02          45623

This one did sort of light up the switchboard.

I note it had an element that generally does generate a lot of passion and opinion..... the subject of dealer honesty/ethics/fair treatment.

I am certainly NOT pointing the finger at our dealer/contributors on this board. But you guys really should take notice of how deeply this current runs.

Couple that with new fangled gadgets of questionable use with out of the box reliability issues and I guess that makes for a zinger every time.

Tim, besides Toms sage advise (which I second), sometimes new tractors need a lot of oil on the ball joints at the end of the lower 3 pt. arms. If they do not swivel freely it can contribute to the problems you describe. ....

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Peters
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2002-12-02          45628

To add to Mark. Sometimes the gentleman using the paint spray will coat the pins on the implement or the balls on the tractor making them difficult to connect as the clearances are designed with out paint. ....

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MRETHICS
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2002-12-02          45632

Re: Gadgets of questionable use.

Let me start off on the right foot. There is never a day, i fail to learn something on this board.

Now, let me explain some of the uses for new "gadgetry"

Spraying. Speedmatch, and Automotive Cruise control....What it means to the consumor:

Spraying is a simple process. Rates are measured in gal/acre of liquid. To accomplish this, speed, flow, nozzle size, and boom width are the variables in the equation.

With automotive cruise control. Ground speed can be set at a constant. With the ole' lock the pedle CC, ground speeds are more eratic when there are hills involved. Chemicals are getting more concentrated as time goes by. Some have application rates in oz's/acre. Take 6 oz, and spread that over 43560 sq ft. and that's pretty thin. Add to this the fact that some chemicals cost as much as $10/oz. and you can see.....constant speed is crittical. Costs for over applications can sour, also cost of under applying, requireing a seqential treatment can also get strangely expensive.

If you spray, you will need this. Golf courses need it, orchards need it. Small farmers need it.

Loadmatch:

Contractors love this option. It makes hourly employees easier to train, and more efficient. Time is money, if you keep your engine within it's torque range, you are oporating at the peak of efficiencey. With this option, cycle times greatly improve.


Motion Match:

Contractors also love this option. It enables them to set the shift modulation of the trans. You can set it soft, so there is less chance to tear up the sod when filling a trench or hole. This makes less time for yard repair. They can also set it in the fast mode, when fottong is more stable and less critical. Again time is money, less training time, less time fixeng problems. More time being efficient.

The electronic op system is the platform for all of these gadgets. Without it they would just not be possible.

MR ETHICS


....

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Peters
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2002-12-02          45637

Mrethics;
If the electronic controller dies out of warranty how great of pain will I be in? To me this is the main problem. I think its replacement will be trivial, but if they are going new they may go in the future.
Peters ....

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Billy
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2002-12-02          45642

Peters, if I looked up the right part, the controller is $357.00

Billy ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2002-12-03          45661

Like load-match over on another thread, I'm also curious how motion match works. I guess my version of motion-match is dumping excavations on lengths of vapour barrier. That way I can push the whole pile, vapour barrier and all into the trench. Grass under the pile isn't damaged and less pushing is needed so the tires don't tear up the turf.

It sort of works even if pulling the barrier out of the trench and figuring what to do with the used stuff can be a problem. A gadgetry assist here might be welcome and maybe I'll even be dragged into modern times.
....

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MRETHICS
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 190 Star City, Indiana
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2002-12-03          45680

I know. The price of the controler is scary. That is the problem when one looks at things as an expense. With an expense, one tends to overlook value.

If you put 400 hrs/yr on your tractor, and the feature made you 5% more efficient, things look a little differently.

I tried running some numbers here, that a customer of mine gave me. It was his foundation for purchaseing another 4410 with all the bells and whistles as the one I sold him in May. Then the box poped up and said my post was an advirtisement. Go figure......

Anyways, this guy is all about R.O.I. (return on investment).

The features on his 4410 made his crew faster, and he translated it into dollars for me to see. He has had a controler replaced, and this was included in his numbers as lost revenue. While it was under warrenty, he put a value on his lost time.

It was a good enough investment to update his other tractor

The ROI on all the fancy gadgets, over his old tractor, without them was well over 48%.

By the way, how are all your 401K's doing this year??

I realize to a sundowner, this means little. But as I have said before, these CUT's have the most diverse set of users of any product I can think of.

MR ETHICS




....

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Billy
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2002-12-03          45686

Mr E,

Since JD is having so many problems with the controller on the eydros. Are they redesigning the controller or just replacing it with the one they are using now, and hoping for the best?

Looks to me like an electronic controller, if designed right, should out last a starter or alternator. Since it has no moving parts, it should last as long as the tractor.

Billy

PS
I hope my 4610 does better than my 401k ;) ....

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Peters
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2002-12-03          45696

As I stated I hope that JD is ahead of the tech curve rather than just adding bells and whistles. Glad to see from this post and others that it is really a useful system. I am with Billy though there should be no reason that the controller should not last as long as a modern brain box in a car. These normally last the life of the car today. What did JD do get three whiz kids to hobble one together in their garage? ....

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Billy
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2002-12-03          45698

I have one last thing to say about this controller and JD. I went to some other compact tractor boards and found out this is NOT an isolated problem.

I read where John done extensive testing on these new electronic systems. Over 40,000 hours of testing, in all kinds of harsh working conditions.

Don't tell me John didn't have a control failure during these tests, when they are failing during the first few hours of work. If a company wants to get ahead in the business, they don't send out malfunctioning equipment. This is the worst possible advertising they could possibly get and I'm not so sure they can ever overcome this bad publicity.

Way to go John! I want to nominate you for 'Idiot of the Year'. I just hope you're man (company) enough to stand behind your blunders. You should have at least sent letters to everyone who bought one of your E-machines, telling them about the problem and how you will stand behind it.

Billy ....

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John R.
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2002-12-03          45700

I hesitate to add more to an already long thread, but I was given some information by the guy that replaced the controller on my employers tractor that might be of some interest here. He said that according to Deere, the controller didn't "go bad." He said the controller was fine, but there was a software issue that caused a false error code. The error clears when the tractor is turned off and restarted. The weird thing, he said, was that it never seems to show up on most tractors, but shows up a lot on others. By the way, he said the controller is located just left of the steering column and requires removing the left green plastic panel to get to it. About a 15-20 minute job he said. ....

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Ben in KY
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2002-12-03          45703

This sure is a long thread... not sure if this was covered or not but here goes.
The automotive industry had a lot of trouble with their electronics in their early years. One thing they learned was to put the computer stuff in the cab of the vehicle. There was less vibration and heat/cold in there. well, most tractors do not have heated/cooled cabs on them and many sit out in the weather a lot. There is also no suspension = more vibration. This is not a good environment for electronics and I think we can expect to have more difficulty with them.

Of course one boon to the tractor manufacturers putting excessive ? electronic equipment on tractors is more service work and part sales for their dealers after the warranty period. They will be much more difficult for the owner/operator to troubleshoot and repair. This is a good finiancial move for the tractor industry, but maybe not so good for the tractor consumer.

The more complicated - the less the reliability.

For a tractor I believe in K.I.S.S.

Ben in KY
....

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cutter
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2002-12-05          45764

Here is one way electronics are helpful!

http://svt.se/hogafflahage/hogafflaHage_site/Kor/hestekor.swf ....

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DRankin
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2002-12-05          45768

Cutter, you are a strange man. Strange. ....

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jeff r
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2002-12-05          45773

ALL I can Say is this. JD will not TOP Kubota with all this electronic garbage that won't work on delivery to the buyer. You think this stuff is frustrating on the small stuff? Talk to my brother who troubleshoots the electronics on 250,000+ dollar Excavators, Bulldozers, etc. This is small potatoes guys. To see what is wrong on the BIG stuff he has to plug in a custom software laptop computer to see what screwed up......to the tune of 250 bucks an hour for diagnostics time so consider yourself LUCKY. ....

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cutter
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2002-12-06          45789

Oh, perhaps this did not work the first time. Try this Mark. ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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slowrev
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2002-12-06          45796

Cutter, Not sure what to make of the page ? Cute, but Mark could be right. Computers are handy for a great many things, but should not be applied to all things. On a wild guess, are you a horse person ?

....

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Billy
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2002-12-06          45804

After doing some thinking about the new electronics on the new 10 series ehydros, I got to thinking about extended warranties. So I called the dealer and asked if one was available for my 4610. He looked it up and said yes, there is one but you don't need it. He said "Billy, if something happens, we will take care of it". He said John Deere will stand behind any design flaws.

Anyway, I thought I might add that bit of info to this discussion.

Billy ....

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Stan
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2002-12-06          45805

Cutter -
OK, so electronics are good for some things...lol. Of course, it did take a while for me to click on the horses. Now if only the critters at home were this easy to train. ....

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TimInNH
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2002-12-06          45807

Billy -
For your sake and mine, I hope your dealer is right when he says that John Deere will stand behind our 10 series tractors, if any design flaws should come about (other than what we've already gone through with the controllers)

I just got my tractor back yesterday, and although I only drove it around the yard some, it appears to be okay.
I'm also going to like the 2 extra lights that I had them install on the ROPS, since I found that the snowblower obscures a lot of the light from the headlights... :-)

- Tim ....

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dsg
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2002-12-06          45808

Good show Cutter, Good Show :)) We all need too remember to lighten up a little.


David ....

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cutter
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2002-12-06          45810

Thank you David, that is why I did it. Soemtimes people (me/us) get too carried away with what we perceive as reality and don't stop to realize where we are at. What plane so to speak Billy Jack. I love horses Slowrev, just don't have time to own them. ....

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IRTEXN
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 51 Texas
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2002-12-06          45814

Tim,
Glad to hear you got your tractor back. I hope it works out well for you. I know I sure am happy with my, abiet smaller JD ....

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kadorken
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Posts: 67 Canada
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2002-12-14          46108

I would be interested to know if the PIP mentioned earlier is listed on the John Deere Web site. If someone has a serial number for that series of tractor, you just enter it on the web site and it searches for PIPS

I tried my serial number (for a 4310), but nothing was listed. ....


Link:   John Deere Product Improvement Program

 
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Kyle_in_Tex
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 24 Austin, Tx.
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2002-12-16          46188

Tim, keep us posted with your problem. Glad you got your tractor back and hope its fixed.
Kyle ....

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TimInNH
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2002-12-20          46346

Thanks Kyle. I do have the tractor back, after they replaced the controller, and so far, so good... I've used it a few times to snowblow the driveway and it's been fantastic... Now, I can't wait 'til summer so I can use the front-end loader!

- Tim ....

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stumper0
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2003-10-17          66399

it's Kubota time!!!!!!!!!!! ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2003-10-17          66426

WOW!!!! What a thread! Interesting how the tractors, problems, & people have changed in a year. I re-read the entire post and it was interesting to say the very least. A lot of new faces, new friends, and changed opinions & attitudes about the equipment & issues (at least speaking for myself). ;-)

Would be interesting to see how TimInNH is doing with his 4410 as well as how MRETHICS is doing. It has been my pleasure to get to know all of you and have learned a tremendous amount of knowledge about MANY things as well as benefited greatly from the help I received. CHEERS!!!! & Thank you!!!! ....

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TimInNH
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2003-10-21          66722

Hey Chief -

Thanks for asking. Well, other than the original Control Module that needed to be replaced, and the leaking (cut) radiator hose, this spring I also noticed that I had an oil seal leak at the left/rear wheel, and once again the tractor had to go back to the dealership for this to be repaired.
Oh, and I also had a defective Tilt Steering mechanism, that also needed to be replaced.
So, I have definitely had my share of bad luck with this tractor. Although I REALLY like the tractor, I am definitely a little scared of what the future holds with this tractor since I only have 55 hrs on it. It looks like I really got a lemon when I bought this one....

How has your 4410 been for you???

- Tim ....

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Chief
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2003-10-21          66726

I have had the battery seep electrolyte a few times after a long hot run so I inspect & wash it down good after each use. The steering wheel cap kept falling off but I finally got it to stick. I also had to adjust the throttle linkage to get full rpm. (only took a few minutes) Other than that, it has been great. I have about 88 hours on it now. The battery is the most serious problem and I will eventually replace it with a sealed battery. Love the tractor, does a great job! ....

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kadorken
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2003-10-21          66752

Well, my (not quite a 4410) 4310 has been working great since the electrical harness overhaul. The intermittent drive shutdown and a broken fuse panel have been my only incidents in the 140 hours I have put on the tractor since purchasing almost 1 year ago. The tractor had 130 hours when purchased (dealer rental), so it now has 270 total hours and has been indispensible around the 'farm'. Should have bought it years ago....
....

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