Go BottomNeed help choosing tractor - information overload
 | mrlsmith
Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6 Vermont 
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2005-10-03 117322
Hello,
I am trying to decide between a deere and a kubota. I know both brands are fine and I own a small Kubota B7200 HST and am amazed what can be done with a small tractor. I will be keeping that and investing in a new larger tractor for:
mowing/conditioning about 30 acres of horse pasture.
heavy mowing/brush hogging about 60 acres of hay fields.
building horse jumps/digging ditches and water hazards.
quite a bit of loader work/gravel and stone and pulling and lifting heavy logs.
Pulling hay wagons and possibly, some day, haying.
other regular farm type stuff and snow removal.
Primary function is mowing/conditioning/brush hogging. I would like a 7 foot or larger mowing implement and have been told to get anything from a 35 hp tractor to a 50+ hp. I want plenty of power to do the job while going up the sloping parts of my fields.
I have looked at the jd 4520 and 4720 and Kubota 5030, m5000 and l4800.
Does it make sense to look at tractors in this range or am I thinking too big? I am sort of overloaded with information and am having a hard time deciding what to consider as important factors. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Barton in Vermont
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 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee 
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2005-10-04 117338
On the contrary. In my opinion, you may not be considering going large enough. To run a small round baler you can find some that require 30 to 35 pto hps but most typical round baler's requires a minimum of 45 and usually more pto hp. A square baler requires similar but slightly less pto hp. I realize that folks with horses prefer square bales but after you have had to handle and stack a few thousand of them by hand; you will MUCH prefer the round bale and spear to handle them.
If you are going to run a 7' rotary cutter; I would STONGLY suggest going with as heavy duty a unit as your budget can swing. For instance; a Deere 709 rotary cutter weighs in at 1381 lbs. and requires a minimum of 45 pto hp. This rotary cutter come in category 2 and 3N for the 3 pt. hitch hook up.
You stated that you were planning on quite a bit of FEL work. Get as heavy duty a FEL as will fit on your tractor. You may want to consider a grapple bucket for the logs.
You could get by and make do with the top end Deere 4000 Twenty Series or the Kubota Grand L series machines if hydrostatic drive is a must for you. If hydrostatic drive is not a prime consideration then I suggest that you look carefully at the "Ag Tractors".
By "Ag Tractors" I mean the Kubota M series and the Deere 5003 series and up. Do you want a cab? I would think so if you are blowing snow with it. I would again STRONGLY recommend 4WD if you have a FEL installed as rear wheel drive only will tend to slip with a full bucket (this would eliminate the 5003 series line). If a cab is in the cards; the Deere 5000 Twentfive series and perhaps the 6003 series are the models you need to be looking at. With all of the goodies like a cab, 4WD, FEL, 24F/24R PowrReverser with 540/540E PTO on the 5000 Twentyfive series; expect to be in the $50,000 range give or take for a Deere 5425 and perhaps about 10 to 15% less for a Deere 6403. The 6003 series is a mid range basic machine that pretty much is along the lines of the old but very well know and reliable 4020 and follow on series machines. For example, Deere has a special offer for a base 6403 for $26990. Expect to add around $12,000 to $14,000 for a cab and 4WD. It has been awhile since I have priced an Ag FEL but expect to be looking at $5,000 and up. I am sure some of the other member who have recently purchased one can comment on this.
Another reason for "going large" or "suprer sizing" is picking up and handlig round bales. I don't even consider moving even a small round bale with my 4410. Just too much weight. A full size round bale would probably be too much weight for a 4720 and if not near its limitations. You DO NOT want to be taxing your equipment to its limits on a regular basis. Best to buy what will reasonably accomodate your intened applications and leave capacity to expand or branch out later.
Again, could you make do with a say a Deere 4720 or a Kubota 5030? Sure but you would be faced with limits to your applications.
Another brand and model consider for these applications is the Kioti DK65S. This is a 65 hp, 4WD, cab w/heat & A/C tractor that can be purchased with a FEL and rotary cutter for about $37,000 with recent price increases. The Kioti DK65S is equipped with a Perkins 1103C-33T which is a turbo-charged after cooled diesel. Perkins is WELL known for their reliability and durability. I believe that Woods makes the FEL's for Kioti.
Sorry about the long post but just wanted to throw out some ideas and options to consider. ....
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 | Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 955 Central Iowa 
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2005-10-04 117348
One tractor with the JD brand that was neglected was the 5105 and 5205 units from JD. They have optional 4wd, are stocky units with great reputations and have good power. They also are less money than some of the higher end units mentioned. I was seriously considering one of these units as they have a lot of bang-for-the-buck.
You have some very tough choices ahead. But I'd be afraid of being a bit under what you need for what you've listed. The HST is nice, but you are talking about some constant speed type stuff where the gear drive is nicer and very reliable for constant load work. I'm no expert, but the work you've lsited would lead me to a gear drive unit like the 5105 or 5205 or bigger. ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-10-04 117352
I beg to differ as I DID INDEED mention the 5005 series when I wrote "I would again STRONGLY recommend 4WD if you have a FEL installed as rear wheel drive only will tend to slip with a full bucket (this would eliminate the 5003 series line)." Meaning 5005 series and up if 4WD is wanted. To my knowledge a cab is not available for he 5105 or 5205 which would make snow blowing a little of a chilly task but still "doable". If a cab is not a requirement; the 5105 or 5205 would make a good but borderline choice for some tasks with regard to pto hp and weight. I think a 709 rotary cutter would be at or near the limits of a 5205. The 5105 be that absolute minimum recomended pto hp to run a 709 cutter. ....
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| Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 955 Central Iowa
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2005-10-04 117357
Sorry 2ndhand, I didn't see the 5205 specifically listed so I wanted to get it out there.
I agree that is he's serious about mowing 60 acres and such, he'll need to get into bigger stuff than a 5205 as he'll want a big honking mower and those take power. ....
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| mrlsmith
Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6 Vermont
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2005-10-04 117392
Thanks for the great information!
I think that we are pretty used to the hydro tranny so we will probably go that route. Pretty simple to operate. Plus, my understanding is that the cruise will take care of constant speed jobs. I can definately say we will not be doing any round bales but MAY do square sometime. Part of the problem is there is a shortage of folks to come and hay ones fields on a regular basis. I am used to slinging them and we have a small elevator to get them in the barn.
For logs I am quite used to chains and hooks on my bucket and most of the log work will be lifting and placing or holding in place while fastening to a cross country jump. So I think a grapple is not needed for the FEL. They are cool though, pretty gnarly.
Cab would be nice but not a necessity. It's pretty windy here so a blade will work pretty well instead of a blower.
I have never used a flail mower and understand that they can do a pretty good job on grass that is 2 feet and less and where there may be rocks. True? We grow some good rocks here. At least I always seem to find them with the rotary mower.
I am leaning towards the 4720 today with the 400xldr and either the 390 flail or the mx7 rotary cutter. price quoted was 29,775 with the FEL, cruise, loaded tires, chain hooks, bolt on blade for the bucket, delivered and full of fuel. mowers would be extra. Is that a competitive price?
5225 was too fancy for me.
Thanks again,
Barton
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 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2005-10-05 117407
I would not go with a light 7 ft cutter. The larger deck makes them suseptable to bending. They are a lot heavier than the 6 ft. With the width I would not go with a single rear wheel. My 287 BH requires 55 HP. The weight make it trouble even for a larger frame tractor like my MF65. I would recommend you either limit you self to the 6 ft or get a heavy 60 hp tractor. ....
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