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JAPANESE or CHINESE

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Travis_R
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9 Colyell, Louisiana, USA
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2004-08-12          93375

What would you do? I am in need of opinions and FACTS.

I could purchase a YM2000 2wd Yanmar for $3900 USED from a dealer out of state (Mississippi) which is 80 miles one way from my house here in Livingston, LA.

OR

I could purchase a Farm Pro 2420 for $3500.00 NEW from a Farm Pro dealer, which is also an Authorized Farm Pro Sevice Dealer, that is about 8 miles one way from my house.

I have posted this same discussion at another tractor discussion website in the Yanmar forum. The results I got were go with the Yanmar. Maybe because it was in the Yanmar forum. I don't know. I did get real good advice though, just like I hope to get here.

Which tractor do ya'll think that will last longer, Chinese or Japanese?

PLEASE KEEP THE ANSWERS VERY SHORT, OR MAKE 2 OR MORE POSTS TO GIVE ME YOUR ANSWERS. IF IT IS TOO LONG, IT WON'T LET ME READ THEM BECAUSE I WILL HAVE TO PAY $20 TO "UPGRADE" SO I CAN READ ALL OF THE POSTS.

Thanks,
Travis


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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2004-08-12          93379

Very solid machine, but I got rid of my YM240 (US version of the YM2000) after three years; parts were too expensive. Would you believe $60 for a simple three wire ignition switch? I've owned two Chinese tractors since. Dealer problems on the first one, not the tractor's fault. Second one is a winner.

Having said that, I'll speculate that Japanese tractors will generally last longer than the current grade of Chinese that are being imported. But Chinese parts are one helluva lot cheaper - and don't usually take any longer to obtain. Matter of fact, I think you'll find more parts available more quickly for say - a FarmPro 2425 (Jinma 254) - than you would for the YM2000.

//greg// ....

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bill
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2004-08-12          93381

What are you using it for? Have you checked the classifieds and all other dealers in area? Their are a lot of good used tractors around. How do the dealers compare? Warrenties, Parts? ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2004-08-13          93409

In another thread some one asked a corollary type question.

Would you buy a used Corolla or Accord over a new Yugo? ....

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Travis_R
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9 Colyell, Louisiana, USA
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2004-08-13          93412

I will be using the tractor for mainly brush hogging (grass)about 4-5 acres. Will definitely be purchasing a brush hog and box blade for light grading with the tractor. Possibly later on add a set of discs and a finishing mower.

Now don't get me wrong, the tractor will be a "working" tractor. But, it is more of a hobby tractor. I won't just have it for nothin'. It WILL be used.

The dealer, Liberty Tractor in Mississippi, seems like they want to work with me on it. 1Year Powertrain warranty (parts/labor) Parts support, mechanics, but also, 80 miles away. YM2000, Brush hog, box blade all for $4500-$4800 PLUS TAX. JUST the tractor for $3900 Plus Tax.

The Farm Pro Dealer, Action Equipment in Livingston LA, are very friendly also. The dealer told me that I won't be disappointed with my purchase from them. They are very friendly also. Being a Authorized Service Dealer and only 7 miles from my house is a BIG plus too. They have been there for 3 years and I don't know if they will be there in the future. Thats why its such a hard decision. Farm Pro 2420, brush hog, box blade all for $4100-$4300 PLUS TAX. JUST the tractor for $3500 Plus Tax. Come to think of it, I have NEVER been to their dealership since they have been there. Thats a shame. We have only had phone conversations.

Now with all this said, what would you do? ....

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AnnBrush
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2004-08-13          93413

There seems to be indecision over which dealer to go through and it seems to me that there is no real winner over the make of tractor or the dealer. That said, it seems obvious to me to go with the make from the closer dealer (8 vs 80 miles). If, in your mind, you counter my post by saying: "Yes, but I would rather have the Jap machine then you have a preferance for a machine/dealer and should buy that machine, since the Chinese machine is obviously not the one you want. ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2004-08-13          93421

There's an important horsepower difference between the FarmTrac 2420 (20 hp) and the YM2000 (25 hp) that I don't think you're taking into consideration. That's why I compared the FarmPro2425/Jinma 254 (25 hp) with the YM2000. Given the chance to compare the two side by side, the lightweight 25 hp Yanmar will outperform the comparatively heavy FarmPro 20 hp simply on a horsepower to weight basis.

If you're considering Chinese, first first thing to do is ignore the unnecessary Yugo crack. Then set your sites a little higher than a 2420 if you want a fair comparison with the YM2000

//greg// ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2004-08-13          93422

If a chinese tractor is anything like my chinese chipper it will be simple, rugged, functional, and require a fair number of maintenance hours to keep it going. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-08-13          93423

Travis R, unless you are willing and able to perform more than periodic maintenance and product design modification; I STRONGLY suggest that you reconsider your decision to buy a Chinese tractor. Not trying to bad mouth them but it IS a fact of life that they require more than a little preventative and breakage maintenance than the more established brand machines. They are NOT for a novice or UNmechanically inclined owner. They are also VERY basic gearshift trans. tractors. That having been said; for the owner who is a competent mechanic and does not mind some periodic repairs and up keep. These tractors are just their thing. They are nearly half the price of the more established brands and can do many tasks. Their resale value is nearly non-existent so be sure you plan to keep the machine before you buy. The Yanmar "grey market" tractors are good machines but difficult to guage if the particular model you have in mind is mechanically sound. Many are cleaned up and repainted used imports and have MANY hours of hard use on them. If you prefer the Yanmar tractors and want a SOLID machine that comes with a warranty at a VERY good price; take a look at the John Deere 790 new or used. There are lots of older Kubota L Series tractors out there that are VERY fine machines. A Kubota L245DT is one that comes to mind or one of the newer versions. The Chinese tractors are not for everyone but for some they are bargain machines that fulfill a niche at a very good price. I suggest you demo ALL of the brands you are considering and research a bit on reliability as well as dealer logistical support and then go with the brand and dealer that met your needs and expectations best. ....

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greg_g
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2004-08-13          93425

With all due respect Chief, you've just walked completely away from the point of Travis's question. When comparing the advantages/disadvantages between owning/operating/maintaining a NEW Chinese versus and OLD Japanese - they BOTH require continuing maintenance. Trust me. I've been there, done that, have the T-shirt.

If you keep this thread to a Chinese versus Japanese discussion, it's less likely to get out of hand.

//greg// ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2004-08-13          93428

greg_g, no disrespect taken but I have not walked completely away from ANYTHING. I read and fully understood Travis's questions. I also took a look at his profile information and taylored my reply to him accordingly. In my opinion, either one of the machines Travis mentioned would more than likely be a VERY bad choice for him to start out with. Although (and this is not typically the case) a good Farm Pro dealer that is willing to do any repairs under warranty and/or provide the customer training and coaching to maintain these machines could certainly make the difference. $3900 for a used and out of state 2wd Yanmar is too expensive for a machine that Travis I am sure will not be happy with. 4WD with these small, short wheel base tractors is a MUST. If Travis has $3900 to spend; I strongly stand by my suggested choices. Even a MF135 diesel would be a much better choice albeit large. I got my Kubota L245 with about 350 hours, an L1200 FEL, and an L590 RFM for $4,000. It was a simple, solid, and nearly bullet proof machine that will serve a novice/first time CUT buyer WELL and care a good resale value if it is ever needed. An L2450 or similar machine will be the same. I got $4,000 for trade in value for the L245 when I purchased my 4410. The 8N Travis does have experince with is in my opinion by far better machine than the Farm Pro 2420. With the same level of care and maintenance, will the Farm Pro 2420 still be in the same shape as an 8N in 40 years? Or even 5 or 10 for that matter? On the other hand; if Travis is a sharp mechanic and has the ability to maintain the Farm Pro; it might not be a bad choice. Bottom line is.........I am trying to give Travis the information he was asking for but including the facts of life about the machines he inquired about. From here on, he needs to do a lot of research and careful checking around, as well as demo testing/operating MANY machines before he buys so as to make an informed choice. The Farm Pro may be right up his alley but he should make that choice being well informed. ....

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greg_g
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2004-08-13          93434

Kibitz all you want Chief, you're still editorializing. Until you've walked a mile in our shoes, all you can offer is an opinion.

I do as much of my own mechanical work as possible, within the limits of my toolchest. The YM240 was a wonderful machine, but expensive to maintain. It was also getting to an age where affordable parts were becoming harder to track down. The Jinma 254 (similar to a FarmPro 2425) was a very good machine, killed only by very poor dealer support. That said, I got rid of it - for considerably MORE than I paid - and replaced it with another Chinese tractor, a KAMA 454.

Since the KM454 has little to do with Travis's question, let's get back to it.

Travis - the YM2000 and FarmPro 2420 are not equal tractors. If you want a fair comparison relative to horsepower, you have to go YM2000 versus FarmTrac 2425 - or YM1700 versus FarmPro 2420. Keep in mind also, the FarmPros have 4WD capability. Those two Yanmars do not.

//greg// ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2004-08-13          93435

Greg g, seems to me that you just made and reinforced my point for me. Thank you! By the way.......it would be very interesting to know who the "our" are in "our shoes" that you refer too. Just for the record I talk to the guys at the local Rural King on a recurring basis about these tractors as they are lined up continuously from customers who constantly bring them back for repairs.......so much so that they are overwhlemed. A decisive reason I don't own one.

Let me extend my apologies for "Kibitzing" (for those who are not aware of the meaning.....it is "one who looks on and often offers unwanted advice or comment) I think you will fill rgauthier's shoes just fine; come to think of it. ;o) I'll let you do the editorializing from here on.

Lighten up and don't be so thin skinned......its Friday! ;o) ....

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greg_g
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2004-08-13          93437

"Our shoes" Chief, refers to the fact that this is a Chinese tractor forum. I AM a Chinese tractor owner - past and present - and have hands on Yanmar experience as well. By your own admission you've never owned a Chinese tractor, and your profile doesn't suggest you're a prior Yanmar owner either.

By mentioning the local Rural King repair backlog, you've come intuitively close (amazingly so) to the reason I got rid of the JM254. Keep in mind the location listed in MY profile. The nameless dealer to which I referred, CREATED more problems than he was given to fix.

There has to be a voice of reason in a forum that deals with matters relative to Chinese tractors. I don't believe that it can competently originate from one who hasn't yet "walked a mile in those shoes"

Richard can obviously get a bit belligerent at times. But at least he's in his element. That is, his belligerence has generally been directed towards interlopers in a forum dedicated to matters relative to Chinese tractors.

Back out gracefully Chief, and rejoin your Big Three friends please.

//greg// ....

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AnnBrush
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 463 Troy OH
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2004-08-13          93443

Hummm - since this is a tractor web forum, with all sorts of advice being sought (and everyone looking on), I decided to work out the probability of Kibitzing being possible:


Its 2.543E-45 - IOW, VERY VERY small. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-08-13          93446

Greg g, as I stated above............"I'll let you do the editorializing from here on." LOL! I hope your feet aren't as large as mine (I wear a 15EE) you are doing an expert job of demonstrating foot in mouth. ;o) I see you and Richard are aquaintances. He seems to have taught you well. I am sure the rest of the Tractor Point members and readers will be relieved and assured to know that. ;o) By the way..........gracefullness is a very subjective term which is held in the eye of the beholder. Be that as is may and that having been said........with respect to your attitude and tunnel vision ; there is not much I do gracefully. Looks like we are practically neighbors but I'll have to follow up later. Have a great weekend! I have some firewood to attend to. ....

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greg_g
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2004-08-13          93448

Wonderful.

Now Travis, I hope we can get back on point here. I'll be happy to contribute some of the pros & cons of owning a 24 hp 2wd Yanmar versus a 25 hp 4wd Jinma - if it will help you decide what's right for your situation.

//greg// ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2004-08-13          93450

Wait a second, only past or present chinese tractor owners are allowed to post here? Are prospective buyers allowed to post here? What if they've owned only Big-3 machines before? Would they be allowed to post then? How about folks whose computer illiterate relatives own a chinese tractor. Would they be allowed to post observations? Or are only first party anecdotes allowed? What if you work for a Big-3 dealer and want to buy a tractor but can't afford a Big-3 machine. Would you be allowed to post then? Please clarify the rules of the forum because I'm quite confused. ....

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Travis_R
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9 Colyell, Louisiana, USA
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2004-08-13          93452

Thank ya'll so much for the replies.

I have some more information that I need to tell you.

Back in the summer of '02, I used a YM2000 the whole summer bush hogging and grading. I do have a good bit of experience with that tractor. That is why I am considering that one.

My neighbor has a Farm Pro 2420, but I have not ever drove a Farm Pro 2420. I am considering the Farm Pro because he hasn't had any problems with his, and I know what all he has done with it. He used it to clear land behind his house. It only has 35 hours on it. He said that he is very happy with it.

His neighbor just bought a new Farm Pro 2425 4wd. Now I have used a 2425, but not his. It was one of my buddies. I liked the tractor very much but had a few problems that needed to be taken care of pretty quickly. I won't get into that though.

I don't need a 4wd tractor or a front end loader. Thats why I considered the Farm Pro 2420 and the Yanmar YM2000.

I am having a VERY hard time deciding which one to buy.

I will decide out of these 2 tractors and no more. I just hope I make the right decision. I WON'T BE PURCHASING TIL' THE END OF THE YEAR. That is why I am doing a lot of research now, like I have been for months.

So far from what I gather, the 2420 is not equal as the YM2000 as far as horsepower? Even though they may not be equal, I know the Farm Pro would do what I have to do with it. Like I said, it is STILL a VERY tough choice.

Travis ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-08-13          93453

Travis, at the risk of kibitzing more ;o) , you sound like you are comfortable and experienced with the YM2000. From how you describe your impression of this machine; you were very satisfied with it. Yanmar makes a great tractor and near bullet proof engines. The Deere 4010, 4110, and 4115 are built exclusely by Yanmar for Deere and the rest of the 4000 Ten Series tractors have Yanmar engines. In my opinion; given the choice between the Yanmar or the Farm Pro, I would go with the Yanmar as I have a good bit of experience with them and have learned first hand that these machines will last a long time and perform well as long as they are used within their envelope of intended use. If you plan to do much rotary cutting or operations on slopes; strongly consider 4WD. You can get by without it but it really does provide an added measure of safety and performance on slopes and unstable ground. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-08-13          93454

Travis, I'm not sure if the Yanmar has a seatbelt and ROPS but if it doesn't and you buy it you'll want to install them. Take it from a guy who rolled his tractor when the ground collapsed under the left rear tire. ....

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DRankin
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2004-08-13          93455

JAPANESE or CHINESE is the topic.

I would be real surprised if anyone who has posted here does not have a JAPANESE or CHINESE tractor. I have had three myself, two Yanmars and a Kubota. ....

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oneace
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2004-08-13          93460

Here is some advise for Gregg. There are a few people on this site that if they post they know what they are talking about regardless of the topic. Chief is on of those people. If you take the time and pull the wool from your eyes you will see that. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-08-13          93461

I notice that oneace didn't actually dispute anything that Chief said, he just attacked him personally. If that is somehow supposed to contribute something I don't see it. ....

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Archdean
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2004-08-13          93465

Hey Kids!!

BUY ORANGE and play nice!!!!!

Dean ....

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bill
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2004-08-13          93468

Ok, sounds like you are locked in on one of the 2. What is the warrenty of the farm pro? Is the dealer gonna be there for you? Is he established and not gonna dissappear in the next couple years when you need parts and service? I personally would prefer yanmar but have never driven a farmpro. I still recommend checking around, maybe you could find a good grey market kubota. ....

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oneace
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2004-08-13          93473

How did I attack him? The point I am trying to make is that you do not have to own a said piece of equipment to have good ideas or input, life experience is a good substitute. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-08-13          93475

Oneace, when I read it I thought you were being sarcastic. If I misunderstood your intentions I most certainly apologize. ....

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oneace
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2004-08-13          93477

I was being sincear. NO harm done. ....

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greg_g
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2004-08-13          93483

Travis

Before the wagons started circling here, you asked "So far from what I gather, the 2420 is not equal as the YM2000 as far as horsepower?" I put together a few numbers and observations for your consideration. Because grey market Yanmar specs aren't consistent, please note that the weights are approximate and hp is rounded off.
Yanmar 2wd no ROPS/no seatbelt (not required on pre-1985 tractors)
YM1700 weighs about 1600#, has 20 engine hp and 17 PTO hp
YM2000 weighs about 1950#, has 24 engine hp and 20 PTO hp
FarmPro (Jinma) 4wd ROPS/seatbelt
FP2420 weighs 2425#, has 20 engine hp and 17 PTO hp
FP2425 weighs 2623#, has 25 engine hp and 21 PTO hp

After owning a 24 hp 2wd Yanmar, I felt confident a 25 hp 4wd Jinma would be adequate for my hillside pasture maintenance. I soon proved that assumption to be invalid. The Jinma has a much lower hp/weight ratio, thus needs more hp to motivate itself than does the Yanmar. The Yanmar mowed uphill without hesitation, the Jinma had to be dropped into low range to go up the same slope; very aggravating, and slowed mowing down considerably.

My personal rule(s) of thumb;
1. 4wd is always better than 2wd
2. too much hp is always better than not enough
3. when buying Chinese, add 20% more hp than you think you'll need (more for hillside work)
4. when buying Yanmar, buy US models before grey market (my old YM240 is the US version of the grey market YM2000)

Hope that helps

//greg// ....

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Travis_R
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2004-08-14          93533

Greg,

The YM2000 DOES NOT have a seatbelt and ROPS. I do wish it had those features. For what I am buying the tractor for, I actually don't need a seatbelt and ROPS, although it would be nice. I will be using it on flat land mainly. But, I have considered the fact if someone wants me to do a job for them while performing the work on hills.

In all of this discussion, I am just worried that i'll make the wrong choice.

I know that you have to be "wrenchy" on both the machines. For what I have gathered so far, the Farm Pro will require MORE wrenching. I don't know anything about a diesel engine. So, ya'll really need to please keep that in mind when giving me advice.

I forgot, DOES THE FARM PRO 2420 HAVE A DUAL STAGE CLUTCH? I know the Yanmar YM2000 doesn't.

What is the most hours you know of on a Farm Pro 2420 tractor without ANY MAJOR problems? I know my neighbor only has 35 hours on his and he hasn't had any problems.

Greg, what brand and model tractors do you own?

Thanks,
Travis ....

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greg_g
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2004-08-14          93539

I mentioned "no ROPS/no seatbelt" on pre-1985 Yanmars, with the understanding that it applied to the YM2000 and YM1700 described on the two lines that followed. A seatbelt won't set you back much, but a YM2000 ROPS will run >$500 not including freight/tax/labor

Wrenching on any NEW tractor is a fact of life. It can take as much as a year to get all the nuts and bolts torqued down adequately. Until then, you'll suffer from simple TFOT (things falling off tractor). But engine work should be minimal. As long as you perform minimal routine maintenance, and feed it clean air/water/fuel/oil, a diesel is pretty much bulletproof. That said, NOT following the above practices pretty much guarantee shortening the lifespan of any diesel. That's why I shy away from grey markets. Besides no maintenance history, they've almost certainly been operated with lower quality fuel and oil than is typically used in North America. On the YM2000, there should be no TFOT. The wrenching on a grey market tractor tends more towards removing/replacing broken/painted over/failed parts, and rebuilding worn out engines/transmissions/differentials/hydraulics. Not fun, not cheap.

My YM240 had a 2 stage clutch. Since the YM2000 is it's grey market counterpart, I assumed they had identical clutch packs. Maybe not, but you might want to double check that. Because if it actually DOES have a two stage clutch that's simply not working - you've got a good reason to look for another tractor.

Oh, and I forgot to mention earlier that the Yanmar hour meter has only three digits. Never assume that you're buying a grey market tractor with less than 1000 hours.

Yes. the FarmPro has a two stage clutch. It also has power steering, the Yanmar does not.

The FarmPro itself hasn't been around long enough to set any MTBF records. But if you consider that it's just a rebadged Jinma, then I've heard some folks braggin' on 600+ hours without any major mechanical glitches.
br>
Tractor experience is listed in my profile. I also owned two John Deere several years ago, but it's been long enough that I didn't bother listing them.

//greg// ....

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jamesrm1
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2004-08-15          93557

Clear something up for me, isn't Yanmar a Brazilian company? ....

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Chief
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2004-08-15          93559

Yanmar is Japanese. ....

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denwood
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2004-08-20          93930

count my vote for the Yanmar. I got my mother a 33Hp American yanmar used, 7 years ago to maintain her 40 acre farm and it has NEVER been repaired for any reason. My Takeuchi rubber track excavator has a 26HP Yanmar with 2700 hours and NEVER a repair of any sort. Both start in 30 degree weather with no glow plugs. I don't believe there is a better diesel engine built than Yanmar. Time is short is this day and when my small window of opportunity to do a task opens, I can't wonder if my machine will complete the task. I don't have time to be broken. ....

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greg_g
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2004-08-20          93933

That input is important Denwood, thanks. Particularly for specifying "American" Yanmar - as opposed to grey market Yanmar. I found the 24hp two cylinder Yanmar engine (the "Yamma-hammer") to be almost bullet proof. And the ThermoStart worked better than any tractor glow plugs I've ever used. The high range gear teeth on the other hand were getting rounded off after 25 years of use. I had to use a spring to keep the range selector in High. The TPH had begun the leakdown typical of old age, and the steering box was getting pretty sloppy. Transmission oil had begun to leak into one of the brake drum housings. All's since been repaired, but like I said above - it wasn't cheap.

That said, the old YM240 ran/started/operated faithfully - I just overlook some of the blemishes of age. I don't think the same can be said for some of the gray market stuff.

//greg// ....

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AnnBrush
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2004-08-20          93964

When people talk tractors the "big 3" always enter the equation. I have long dabbled with folk in the sailing fraternity. When people there "talk boats" and are looking to get a new or second-hand sailboat fitted with a new engine (all diesels - these ±25' marine craft), Yanmar is always near the top of the list. Two things 1) Super reliable, you don't want to be caught in the doldrums (the real doldrums) without power and 2) Parts avail worldwide. So my recommendation would be to get a Yanmar, my second recommendation would be to get a sailboat in which case you would probably be getting another Yanmar.
Cheers AnnBrush ....

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oneace
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2004-08-20          93978

I will agree with the statements that yanmar engines are very good and reliable engines. Just about every major equipment weather ag or industrial uses a yanmar in one piece or another. The biggest being Deere, New Holland uses them in their new compact excavators, which are made by kobelko. I have also seen them in many other smaller companies products. ....

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Travis_R
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2004-08-21          94053

Hey ya'll,

At times, I lean more towards the Farm Pro 2420 over the Yanmar YM2000. Matter of fact, last night I was gonna go with the 2420. But as of today, I passed a place not too far from my house and saw a damn good looking YM2000 sitting out by the road with a finishing mower attatched to it. The tractor DID NOT have fresh paint on it, but it looked to be in Very good mechanical condition. The paint was not in bad shape at all either. The whole set up looked very nice.

When I saw this tractor, my eyes lit up! I didn't go ask how much they wanted for it. I just went on home. I pulled in the driveway and looked at it from the car. Then we left.

It looked like they were selling tractors because I saw 2 or three Yanmars and a Massey Ferguson in the back. People were outside, but we never went back there.

Greg,

You have never really come out and told me which tractor you would buy, even though you have helped me a lot. The Farm Pro 2420, or the Yanmar YM2000? JUST out of these two tractors, what would you do?

Chief,

You have helped a lot also. I THINK you told me to go with the Yanmar. Correct me if I am wrong.

To everybody,

Should I consider buying from this individual with the YM2000? I don't know how long they have been selling the tractors at their residence. I never knew that they even sold tractors there.

Thanks again,

Travis

....

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Chief
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2004-08-21          94057

Travis,

It certainly couldn't hurt to go and talk to the guy and check him and his business out. You might even check around to see or even ask him how many tractors he has sold locally and ask him for some references. If he has happy & satisfied customers; he will only be too glad to give you some references. Nothing ventured, nothing gained? ....

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greg_g
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2004-08-21          94064

Dead simple Travis. Given that the YM2000 is grey market, I'd go with the FarmPro.

Now if you were looking at US version Yanmar the decision wouldn't be quite so easy. I'd have to see it with my own eyes to make a decision.

//greg// ....

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gerald b.
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2004-09-01          95307

on chinese, ask if warranty is on engine AND drivetrain and
howlong. Around memphis, its engine only, 6mos. only and some labor is included,even though factory warranty i one(1) year. in slayden mississippi, its engine warranty only, 6 mos., and NNN OOOO labor AT ALL PERIOD....... ....

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greg_g
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2004-09-02          95344

If one is mechanically inclined, there are two conditions when not getting labor under warranty is a GOOD thing.
1. when "no warranty labor" is DEDUCTED from the selling price
2. when the selling dealer employs no competent mechanic(s).

I endured a very bad experience where so-called warranty labor CREATED more problems than it fixed. I went to another dealer for another tractor, and SPECIFIED that I wanted a parts-only warranty. Saved me a grand off the top, and I've not yet encountered a problem that I couldn't fix myself.

I do not however, recommend this approach to anybody that doesn't like to get his or her hands dirty.

//greg// ....

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chipuren
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2004-09-02          95377

As I understand it the Jinma factory provides a warranty covering replacement of defective parts for 12 months from the time the tractor leaves the factory. Many sellers use 6 months to avoid having different warranty lengths remaining on each tractor depending on when it arrived, how long before it was assembled and how long did it sit at the distributor and/or dealers lot. Farm Pro has 6 months parts and labor subject to a $100 deductible on non powertrain issues, and not including wear parts, bulbs belts etc. At our dealership, we have never had to collect the deductible.

Our KAMA brand offers 12 months parts and labor if sold local to our warehouse in Arkansas, otherwise it is for parts only.

Extended warrantys are available that will allow parts and labor after 6 months for up to 5 years on most new tractors.

I have seen many gray market tractors without warranty or with only 30 days. In fact it was on some gray market tractors that I saw engine only warranty, but I have not heard of any engine only warrantys on chinese tractors, but since each importer makes his own policy, I don't doubt its true. ....

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chipuren
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2004-09-02          95405

Travis,
We just got in some of the new 2004/2005 models in. they ahve improved alot. better electrical, (fuse box, voltage regulator, switches) someone posted the horn would honk if the oil pressure dropped. I have not tried it but there is an additional relay under the hood, so it may be true. I plan to start one and remove the wire from the sending unit and see if it honks... My point is that the Farm Pro/Jinma continues to improve. I don't know if it my imagination or the improved shift knob, or if it really shifts easier than last years. I know the paint on the chassis is much nicer, fiberglas fenders, you can fold the ROPS without removing the worklight now. I am impressed. They actually look new!
If you ahve not seen a recently built Farm Pro, it is worth a look.

....

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apark1
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2004-09-03          95464

Read my reply to "Don't by from Corriher" In short, don't buy the Yanmar or the China thing. If you compare the Farm Pro to a real tractor, New Holland, JD, Kubota, you will se what everyone is talking about..

Sorry, but take it from someone who has benn there! ....

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chipuren
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2004-09-03          95472

Read the post you mention, doesnt talk about your Farm Pro ownership experience...its true that some people have unrealistic expectations and sometimes expect much more than they pay for. Some people buy used and expect new quality and I am sure some people buy Chinese tractors and expect major brand quality and support. If the customers expectations are realistic, they can have a very satisfactory owership experience.

The fact is not everyone can afford or wants to tie up so much money in what you call a "real" tractor. This is a thread comparing the purchase of a new Farm Pro tractor to a more expensive used gray market import, I don't think a new New Holland is in the scope of the original poster's consideration (granted, the NH is Japanese). I simply suggest he look at the new Farm Pro models because based on what I have seen, they have come a long way in the last few months.

I am the very first to admit that the Chinese tractors are not for everyone, that is why we have Kioti and Farmtracs, but there is a place for these inexpensive little tractors and I believe one of them is as an alternative to used gray market tractors.

Some people have champaigne taste and a beer budget, then they buy beer and don't like the taste, others like beer!



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Harryg
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2004-09-03          95539

I have to concur with Chip. I also have chapagne tastes but a beer wallet. I searched all over my state for something I could afford and no one had anything in my range. Kubota was my dream but alas no way I could justify the price. I researched the "China" brands. Tried a couple of Jinmas out from people that purchased them. seems to me people that purchase China tractors are a lot like me and helped me a lot with all the negatives as well as the good points. nonetheless I bought a 224 Jinma crate unit from Coastal and could not be happier. My expectations have been surpassed. Yes, I am a mechanic by trade and don't mind a tweek now and then but for the money I feel I am way ahead. Just my opine and my mind is made up. ....

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mscott6799
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2004-09-04          95554

I've owned 3 new tractors 65hp and under in the last 15 years. The Chinese tractor is as much a "real tractor" as any i've owned. I now own a 35hp Jinma with over 200 hours that i'd like to see a real tractor with the same hp rating outpull. ....

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DAVID SWANSON
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2004-09-07          95809

I had a RHINO tractor for about 4 years it is all so made in China it had some problems like oil leaks it was built very good tho. I traded it back to the dealer that I bought it off of and bought a HURLIMANN it has been a great tractor it did cost a bit more than the other. I would buy the Japanese tractor they are more proven to last and parts would be a bit easyer to get . ....

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greg_g
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2004-09-07          95851

One slight flaw in that logic David. Travis indicated his choice was limited to two tractors: a 30 year old grey market Japanese for $3900 - or a brand new Chinese for $3500.

//greg// ....

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johnfundy
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2005-01-11          104042

I've been away from the forum for some time, but was intrigued by this question as I went through the same exact decision process about a year ago. I would buy Japanese. Period. For example, the older Kubota B series tractors, late 80's early 90's, can be purchased used in good condition with mmm or rmm for about $5000. That gives you 4WD, a solid diesel engine, and a tractor with an excellent support network. Frankly, the decision is easy!

John Fundy
B6200 owner ....

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chipuren
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2005-01-12          104057

I think the intended comparison was Grey market Japanese vs. new Chinese. From what I have read Kubota has gone to great lengths NOT to support used tractors imported from Japan, to the point of suing to block their import with the Kubota trademark (hence they are often called Zen Noah). So the comparision is new Chinese or 20 year old used. In my area clean 20 year old US market (not gray) tractors are a little hard to find. If you go Chinese, you will have to settle for a little larger, heavier tractor as they don't offer anything in the sub compact class. ....

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