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Jinma clutch does not disengage

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Biokirk
Join Date: Feb 2008
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2008-05-21          153846

I went to start my farm pro today and it wouldn't crank. I discovered the clutch won't disengage. It starts in neutral ok. If I put it in a low gear the tractor starts and begins moving. Its like the cltch isn't working. Any ideas?

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Murf
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2008-05-21          153848

That's caused by the clutch seizing to the pressure plate and is caused by rust.

Most tractors have a gizmo of some form, usually a little hook, that allows you to depress the clutch pedal and lock it in the down position to prevent exactly that situation.

Now you have to free it up.

In some cases merely putting the tractor in gear (with the engine off), depressing the clutch and giving it a couple of good tugs with another tractor or a truck will break it free.

Likewise, chaining it to something leaving a little slack and VERY CAREFULLY putting it in gear with the clutch depressed will shock load it enough to pop it loose.

If not, get out the wrenches.

Best of luck. ....

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Biokirk
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2008-05-29          154052

Thanks for the response. I never heard of that happening. Jarring it didn't work. Since I posted the original message I discovered that my clutch pedal had 3" of free play. I adjusated it to 1 " before trying your suggestion. My guess is something is broken. Any more ideas? ....

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greg_g
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2008-05-29          154056

Before you do anything, check the QD (quick disconnect) fitting on the hydraulic pump pigtail. It's on the right side of the engine, about a foot aft of the pump. If that QD decides to open by itself (they're notorious for that) the deadheading pump can put a serious hurt on the starter motor.

If that's not the issue, we can revisit the clutch adjustment

//greg// ....

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auerbach
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2008-05-29          154057

I've heard that you might try whacking the outside of the clutch housing with a sledge. Or, if there's a front loader, driving it (slowly) into an immovable object. Or drive it long and hard on a hot day to heat everything up. ....

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greg_g
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2008-05-29          154059

Quote:
Originally Posted by auerbach | view 154057
I've heard that you might try whacking the outside of the clutch housing with a sledge.
Positively absolutely definitely not recommended !! The Chinese housings are cast

//greg// ....

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Biokirk
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2008-05-29          154060

I tried hooking it to a tree and backing it away with the clutch pushed in. No luck with that. Keep in mind the tractor worked fine the last time I used it. I measured the clutch free play at 3 inches after this first occurred and adjusted it to 1 inch. I do have a FEL, is there any way to see the clutch were I could tell if clutch and pressure plate are stuck together? ....

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kwschumm
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2008-05-29          154061

Most vehicles with clutches have a weep holes at the bottom of the bell housing or access panels somewhere that can be removed. The weep holes are often pretty small. If you crawl under the tractor and shine a light into the bell housing while someone presses the clutch pedal you might be able to see if the disk moves or not. ....

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greg_g
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2008-05-29          154063

There are two rectangular access ports, one on each side of the bellhousing. They're the ones with the vents cut into them. Each is held in place by four 12mm bolts. Open either/both sides and shine a flashlight forward. There might be a chance you can see what's happening at the flywheel

Be advised though, that the gaskets behind those two plates will almost certainly have to be replaced.

//greg// ....

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kwschumm
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2008-05-29          154067

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 154063
There are two rectangular access ports, one on each side of the bellhousing. They're the ones with the vents cut into them. Each is held in place by four 12mm bolts. Open either/both sides and shine a flashlight forward. There might be a chance you can see what's happening at the flywheelBe advised though, that the gaskets behind those two plates will almost certainly have to be replaced.//greg//


Doesn't seem that those gaskets would be critical, maybe to keep water from dripping inside the bell housing. It would probably suffice to just put some sealant there instead. What am I missing? ....

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Biokirk
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2008-05-29          154069

I couldn't find rectangular access ports. Maybe they are behind the FEL brackets. I did find a small rectangular cover held on by 2 screws. After removing it I can see the teeth on the flywheel. Everything appears covered in rust. I'm guessing the tractor has to be split to gain access to the clutch. Any more suggestions? ....

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greg_g
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2008-05-29          154070

Yup, loaders make it difficult. They bolt right over both inspection ports. The little window you found was so that you can find the flywheel timing mark. The two vented inspection port covers get removed on loader equipped tractors. Whoever mounted the loader frame probably didn't bother replacing the gaskets, which may account for the insides rusting up.

There's a chance all the discs are fused, but usually it's the PTO clutch that sticks to the flywheel. So pushing against an immovable object won't help. What I did to free mine up once (PTO clutch) was mount a rotary cutter. You need a stout battery to start the engine with the PTO engaged. But once the blades were spinning, I lowered the RC onto a rotten stump. Lots of vibration and noise, but only took 5 seconds or so before the clutch broke free.

//greg// ....

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Biokirk
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2008-05-30          154081

Thanks Greg, my luck isn't that good. Tried it with no success. ....

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kthompson
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2008-05-30          154084

Does there happened to be any solvent that could be sprayed to loosen the rust that would not then make the clutch slip? kt ....

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Chief
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2008-05-31          154101

When you chain the tractor to the tree and pulled the slack tight, did you have the clutch ALL the way pressed down? Just a safety thing, use ONLY the draw bar to chain the tractor to the tree. ....

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Biokirk
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2008-05-31          154104

Yes, the clutch was all the way in. It sat there spinning all four tires. I also hooked my bush hog on and cut about 1/2 an acre. I held the clutch in as long as I could with no slippage evident. I dropped it low enough to kill the tractor at least twice from near full throttle. Yes its really stuck or something is broke. ....

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Chief
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2008-05-31          154105

It does not sound like there is a dust cover on the bottom of the clutch housing is there? If there is, the other option is to remove it and have someone hold the clutch pedal all the way down and use a plexglass scaper or putty knife or similar tool and a hammer to attempt to pry apart the clutch disk from the fly wheel as gently as you can. You may have to bar the engine over a few times to rotate the clutch and flywheel doing this.

Sometimes just running the tractor for several hours bush hogging or some other task eventually works the clutch disk loose but there is no guarantee and this can be a bit dangerous and risky if you are not careful.

I hate to say it but if all else fails, you may have to split the tractor to get to the clutch.

In the future, if the tractor is going to be setting unused for a long period of time, it is a good practice to use a block of wood or some other device to block the clutch pedal down enough to hold the clutch pressure plate off the clutch disk. The older Kubota owners manuals recommend this. As this is a very common problem with many tractors. ....

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greg_g
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2008-05-31          154106

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief | view 154105
It does not sound like there is a dust cover on the bottom of the clutch housing is there?
No. this is almost the identical tractor that Rural King sold when you used to live outside Clarksville.

The only way to access externally is through the inspection ports - which has already been done. After that, it's a matter of splitting the tractor and physically removing the clutchpack for a little TLC on the work bench

//greg// ....

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Biokirk
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2008-05-31          154114

You guys are just full of good news. I think I'll remove the FEL bracket on the left side to get a better look at whats going on. Now if it would just stop raining. ....

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chipuren
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2008-06-01          154133

It could be the roll pin(s) that hold the clutch fork that pushes on the throw out bearing to the shaft could be sheared. this would account for the 3 inches of play. If that is the case, pushing on the pedal may not be fully disengaging the clutches... The bad news is you still have to split the tractor to fix it. The Farm Pro era Jinmas used two conentric roll pins to try to strengthen this spot and that has generally been successfull. earlier models (agricat vintage) had only one small roll pin. If you find yours has only one, you might consider drilling the hole larger and inserting 2 concentric (one inside the other) pins. ....

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Biokirk
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2008-06-02          154153

I remove the FEL bracket and looked at it. The fingers appear to have the right amount of clearance and they do move. Course this was after I had adjusted the clutch linkage. When my garage is free I guess I'll have to split the thing. ....

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kthompson
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2008-06-04          154222

If the clutch is this stuck, will he be able to break the tractor apart, and then pry it loose and the clutch still be useable? To me, it seems with the cost of breaking the tractor apart (either his own time or hired) and then with the question of will I still have to replace the clutch, worth the risk of trying a non petroleum rust spray. Or is there no such product that would loosen the rust and not damage the clutch to where it would always slip? Some of the products to loosen rust sure don't seem to leave any residue. kt ....

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kthompson
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2008-07-24          155599

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biokirk | view 154153
I remove the FEL bracket and looked at it. The fingers appear to have the right amount of clearance and they do move. Course this was after I had adjusted the clutch linkage. When my garage is free I guess I'll have to split the thing.



Update? ....

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Biokirk
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2008-07-24          155607

The update is that I haven't got to the clutch yet. The starter went out. It took about three weeks to get it rebuilt. While it was sitting the injector pump got stuck. Took me over a week to find and fix that problem. Hopefully I will get to it this weekend. Thanks for inquiring.
....

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kthompson
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2008-07-24          155611

Sorry.. ....

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greg_g
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2008-07-26          155629

Just so it's clear guys, this is a two stage clutch - half for the PTO, half for the main driveline. The main driveline friction plate is in the middle of the clutchpack, and is normally fully disengaged by the time the clutch pedal is half way down. It's the PTO friction disc that contacts the flywheel face. The second half of the clutch pedal travel - from half pedal to full stop - pulls the PTO friction disc away from the flywheel.

Dry clutches should not be sprayed with anything. It's hard enough just keeping oil/dirt/moisture out of the bellhousing. Solvents in particular should never be used, as they will be absorbed by the surface of the friction disc(s). And almost anything they absorb will quickly burn, which in turn causes the friction surface to glaze over. The only way I know to get more life out of a glazed disc is to reface it mechanically. That involves abrasives that restore the rough surface of the friction material. I had one with minor glaze, that I was able to reface on a bench grider-mounted wire wheel. But most of the time they should be taken to a professional.

BIOKIRK - don't assume that your new clutchpack will be ready to install right outa the box. You should get the clutchpack adjustment/alignment specs from the selling dealer, and verify/adjust as required on the bench BEFORE installing it in your tractor. Replace the throwout bearing AND pilot bearing while you're at it. It's also a good time to install a double roll pin in the release fork

//greg// ....

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Biokirk
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2008-07-26          155630

Thanks greg,

I will check all the things you listed. The way my luck runs everything will need replaced. I have always made it practice to check clearances.

Kirk ....

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Biokirk
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2008-08-05          155834

Update on my clutch. I split the tractor and discovered the drive clutch was stuck to the pressure plate. I cleaned up the pressure plates and ordered new clutches. According to my manual I have the twin roll pins on the release fork. Its difficult to see but everyone mentions one roll pin. Mine has two, one on each side. ....

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greg_g
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2008-08-05          155839

Those of us that mentioned "two pins" were addressing the pin-inside-of-a-pin approach. That's where you find a roll pin with an outside diameter that is equal to the inside diameter of the original pin. Push the skinny one inside the original sized one, then put them both in the hole. Much stronger that way.

//greg// ....

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Biokirk
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2008-08-06          155852

Greg, I realize what the two pins mean. Let me clarify that there are two sets of pins in my pivot. Any suggestions for aligning the clutches when I put them in?

Kirk ....

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greg_g
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2008-08-06          155858

Depends. I can give you detailed instructions if you have the 9" six-finger clutchpack. I've not yet bench-adjusted the 9" three fingered version. And if you've got an 8" clutch, I can only offer generic advice.

//greg// ....

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Biokirk
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2008-08-06          155861

Mine is a 3 finger setup, looks like its 8 inch
....

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greg_g
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2008-08-06          155877

Must be an older tractor, cuz I'm pretty sure they went to 9 inchers maybe 8 years ago. The 8 inchers date back to when it was the basic 18hp tractor. Once they increased the horsepower, it was apparently too hard on the little clutchpack.

As long as you've got the tractor split, you might want to consider upgrading your clutchpack to the newer stronger 9 inch. Sounds like your OE clutch is rebuildable. You could keep it on the shelf as an emergency spare.

I may have mentioned this, but don't forget throwout and pilot bearings while you're at it. And word of caution, the ones I've worked with were nearly dry and very loose. They DEFINITELY needed a good packing BEFORE installation.

//greg// ....

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Biokirk
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2008-08-06          155883

I must have measured it wrong, my tractor is a 2004.The throwout and pilot bearings look really good. I intend on packing as much grease in them as I can. Are there any clutch aligning tools that will work with this tractor? I thought about just sliding the assembly onto the shafts in the tractor before attaching it to the flywheel to maybe get it close.

Kirk ....

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greg_g
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2008-08-06          155891

Doing as you describe may help, but only for the main clutch friction plate. The PTO friction plate will be flopping around loose until you're almost done bolting the clutchpack to the flywheel.

Only clutch alignment tools for these tractors I've read about - were homemade. I've done two of these, and didn't need one. I used the tractors PTO stub and crankshaft as my alignment tools.

The PTO drive shaft should go right through the larger diameter main clutch friction disc. When you feel it hit the pilot bearing, engage the PTO lever. Then turn the PTO stub (at the back of the tractor) - and continue pushing the two halves together - until the splines mate. I don't remember how long the bell housing bolts are, you might already have them threaded in by now. If so, tightening them carefully will pull the halves together

Then the main drive shaft will hit the main drive friction disc. Put a socket wrench on the drive shaft pulley and turn the crankshaft slightly while again pulling the two halves together with the bell housing bolts. When the splines mate, all that's left is tightening everything down and putting everything back together and adjusting the clutch linkage.

But that's putting the cart in front of the horse. You need to make sure the clutch pack is adjusted to the proper depth, and that the finger heights are symmetrical BEFORE you install the clutch pack. Pretty sure the stack height is adjusted to 96.8mm - that's clutch fingers to PTO pressure plate - and that all 3 clutch fingers should be within 0.1mm of each other with respect to their distance from the PTO friction disc. But to be safe, you should verify my numbers with a dealer who's done this before.

//greg// ....

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Biokirk
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2008-08-07          155904

Greg,

The numbers you list are the same as in my manual. Hope everything goes back together as easy as it came apart.

Kirk ....

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Biokirk
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2008-08-15          156128

Well its finally fixed. Assembly was tough. Nothing wanted to line up. I finally left it all loose until the tractor was together and tightened everything thru the access hole . Tommy at affordable tractor sales gave me a different way to adjust everything. Worked great. Its now obvious the clutch was way out of adjustment when new. Thanks for everyones input.

kirk ....

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kwschumm
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2008-08-16          156132

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biokirk | view 156128
Well its finally fixed. Assembly was tough. Nothing wanted to line up. I finally left it all loose until the tractor was together and tightened everything thru the access hole . Tommy at affordable tractor sales gave me a different way to adjust everything. Worked great. Its now obvious the clutch was way out of adjustment when new. Thanks for everyones input.kirk


Congratulations, hope it holds up well for you. How many hours do you figure it took to complete? ....

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Biokirk
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2008-08-16          156147

Thanks, It took me a lot longer than I'd like to admit. Probably about 10 hours. The time doesn't bother me too much considering what it would have cost to pay someone to do it. Having done it, I'm sure I could nw do it in a lot les time. ....

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kwschumm
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2008-08-17          156148

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biokirk | view 156147
Thanks,It took me a lot longer than I'd like to admit. Probably about 10 hours. The time doesn't bother me too much considering what it would have cost to pay someone to do it. Having done it, I'm sure I could nw do it in a lot les time.


It looks like a very big job, 10 hours doesn't seem so bad. I sort of expected 2-3 days. Good work! ....

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