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Chevy V8 Engine Slap

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StephenR
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2005-03-30          109089

As our family grows so does our need for a bigger vehicle. I've been looking at used Chevy Suburbans, year 2000 +. This discussion came up at the local NAPA, and two of the countermen vigourously stated not to buy a truck with the 5.3l and 6.0l engines due to the piston wobbling in the cylinder (piston slap) after 30-40,000 miles. Since this would be the approximate mileage, or more on the truck it is a concern. They said it's common knowledge, but the first I heard it. To the contrary, I thought GM had greatly improved their reliability. Anyone have input?

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Billy
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2005-03-30          109091

Personally I don't know but a friend of mine, that is a mechanic at a Chevy dealership, says the 5.3 is the best engine GM ever built. My wife's truck has the 5.3 with 35,000 miles and no problems yet. ....

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AV8R
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2005-03-30          109093

GM says its normal and nothing to worry about. I've seen(heard) some that make an awful racket when cold then quiet down when warm and run fine.

It is an issue, but, it depends on who you talk to weather its a PROBLEM or not. Opinions vary greatly. Get an independent mechanic to look it over (not the dealer). Getting the dealer to throw in a warranty would be good insurance.

Not all the 5.3 and 6.0's do it, but, many do. ....

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yooperpete
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2005-03-30          109095

That comment about the knock is true. I believe it actually started with a new engine design that began in late '99 and should have been correctly by early '03 for sure. I understand using a synethic oil helps. Not everyone notices it.

If you're transporting just family members, a mini-van will get you lots better mileage and the Chrysler Town and Country came in all wheel drive during that time frame. They however can't haul much in weight or tow capacity.

Consider a Ford Expedition or Excursion. The newer Dodge Durango is cool and really big. The older Durango's had problems with front ball joints but OK once repaired. ....

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kwschumm
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2005-03-30          109099

Some Fords have this problem too. I think the manufacturers have increased clearances to reduce friction and increase mileage. OK, not a chevy or even a V8, but my 4.0L Ford Ranger V6 has had it's engine replaced once for this piston slap problem and the new engine is now doing the same thing. It rattles like a diesel at idle. Now the dealer says "they all do it, it's normal". Maybe, but I don't want one that does it. You can usually hear piston slap at idle so listen carefully. ....

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StephenR
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2005-03-30          109102

Thanks guys. We've just started looking at them and stopped to see one after church one Sunday. The guy knew we were coming and had the truck started and running before hand which had me slightly annoyed, I guess I know why now.

We've been a Toyota family so far, 300,000 miles + between 2 vehicles, and I am still confident in their reliability, just outgrowing the 4-Runner. Although I would probably not worry too much about it, the truck would be my wife's and she will probably push harder for a Sequoia after she sees this post.

YP,
A minivan is also in the picture, but I see the depression in her eyes when she thinks about giving up her pre-marriage 4-Runner for a minivan. As the saying goes, "If Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy". ....

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AV8R
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2005-03-30          109109

"If Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy".

Never was a more true phrase ever stated.

How about that larger Toyota SUV's (Land Cruiser?). Didn't they make one of those with 3 (real) rows? The TrailBlazer EXT has a surprizing amout of room in it's 3rd row. Used should be begining to show up now. Better MPG than the Sub, too. ....

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yooperpete
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2005-03-30          109112

You can also get a 3rd row seat in an Explorer, switchable 4X4 or AWD, leather, moonroof and get a V-6 that gets about 20 mpg highway. My local dealer is offering $7,500.00 off sticker. I bought my daughter one last year but without 3rd row seating for $26,500.00 in June '04, which is the beginning of the closeouts for end of model year.

It has 5 star crash rating for head on crash and I think 4 star for side impact. It has a equal to better crash rating than the Suburban and better than the Trailblazer. I also has more room than the extended trailblazer. Whatever roll over issues they had in the past are gone and it really handles nicely. She has had a smile on her face ever since! ....

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AV8R
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2005-03-30          109116

Yeah, but its still a Ford. LOL :))) ....

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grinder
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2005-03-30          109117

StephenR
My 2001 1/2 ton pick up (GMC) 4.8 does it terribly, and has now developed a knock as well.
Mobil one since new. Has done it since new. You really need to check out a cold engine. Peferably one that has sat over night.
That is when mine is worst. I have been told it is the piston skirts, they are too short? GM just issues a service bulletin and tells you it's normal. Well metal banging in an engine is not normal to me. I am told once the carbon deposits warm up and expand it stops.
We just traded our Honda Accord towards a new Odessey Van.
This is completely redesigned for 2005. Consumer Reports
rates it number 1.
5 star front and side impact, side airbags the full length
of it,as well as two in front. Traction control, 255 hp, etc etc.
This vehical was designed to handle like a large BMW and carry 8 people,
and get 28 mpg highway 20 city.
Before you give up your Toyota(300,000) I would highly recommend a test drive. This ain't your gramma's minivan.
Toyota and Honda are number one for a reason.
At least read consumers reports reviews,I think you will be very disapointed with an American piece of junk.
I can't wait for Toyota to make a full size truck. ....

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StephenR
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2005-03-30          109122

AV8R,
Actually the Sequoia is slightly larger than the Land Cruiser, the LC is all-wheel drive also, more of a gas hog. Since my wife is a stay at home mother, we put on about 10,000 miles a year. Which is why I'm hoping the gas prices start bringing the cost of these beasts down.

YP,
I don't like the fact that Ford keeps lowering the Expedition which I think is for PC reasons. Excursions are cool, I don't think my wife would like it though.

grinder,
According to the dealer, Toyota is supposed to start a full sized line sometime next year, complete with a new designed diesel. ....

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bnrhuffman
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2005-03-30          109126

Expand your search to 99s and older. They have the good ole 5.7 liter. I dont think there are any issues with those except maybe a couple fewer MPG. ....

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StephenR
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2005-03-30          109142

So does the piston slap cause any problems other than an uneasy feeling? I see 100,000 mile + Suburbans on the net and Consumer Reports didn't mention anything about it in this years car report. ....

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beagle
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2005-03-30          109146

I have a buddy who is a calibration engineer at the GM proving grounds. He clains the engine slap was discovered by GM before the engine was released to the market, but was dismissed as a minor annoyance. I suppose that depends on whether paying $35k for a rattle trap is annoying or not.

I have a 04 Silverado with the 5.3. No piston slap, but there is a "clunk" in the transmission or drivetrain when accelerating. It sounds like a hydraulic or control probelm in the transmission, but again, was told that is "normal".

These test engineers need to start having to pay for the vehicles they drive. ....

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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2005-03-30          109152

To me this seems par for the course for GM. I have always had GM and I have very few biases. I kept on forgiving them saying "Oh by now they have improved things" It never happens. My 79 blazer was as reliable as my 83 jimmy, 95 sunfire, 95 suburban. The suburban was the last straw and no more GM. They shoved it in my ass till I tasted it. 95 suburban 6.5 td 3/4 ton loaded to the gills. By 60 thousand miles it was unbearable. 3rd injection pump and GM said if I didn't pay to have the tank removed and the entire fuel system flushed, warranty was over. What could I do. I paid and asked what they found. NOTHING. It was clean. Each morning the first person to drive, no matter how gently you applied the brakes, all wheels locked, after that it was fine. If you left the doors unlocked or locked, the back would freeze unlocked or locked and no use of that door till thaw. A/c would give out when it was really hot and then start again fine. Fuel guage would only move between turning off and on the engine. If you filled up and drove 8 hours, no movement till you shut it off. Rear defrost elements only worked partly. It would not start below 35 unless plugged in. Had new harness and glow plugs, no better. When you were driving along smoothly, all of the sudden it would miss a beat. Happened about once every couple days. About once a week when you pulled out from a red light, it would stumble along and not accelerate for 5 seconds. The steering was wondering all over the road. GM said they designed play into the steering and it was in spec. It had hydro-boost brakes, not vaccuum, so when you braked on a curve, the steering would get all funny like it had too much power. We unloaded that turd and got a Mitsubishi Montero ls. 78000 miles never in shop for anything, still original brakes to 65000. Traded it for a VW tdi. No more GM. ....

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grinder
Join Date: Oct 2003
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2005-03-31          109158

Beagle
The clunk I think your ref. to is called "drive Line Clunk Bulletin" Don't worry they are aware of it I'm told.
These bulletin's keep them from having to step up and fix it as far as I can see? They retuned my driveshaft on the computer?(sounds good) and it came right back. My General
Mess of Crap has been in the shop since it had 900 mi. on it. I leave it parked in the yard paid for and with 60,ooo
mi. and run my 1986 Isuzu pick up I found last year with 31000 mi. on it. run's like a top w/32mpg. I would trade out
of the GMC but it has depreciated so much in 3 yrs. I might as well keep it to haul my stump grinder around summers.
Remember they are "Professional Grade". What a crock of bull! Ask your friend for me if they actually drive these trucks before they sell them? ....

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beagle
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2005-03-31          109170

grinder, the real kick in the pants is that they do drive these things before they sell them. He drove a GMT-800 vehicle for a year before they came to market. He has been driving a H-3 for 3 months now, with his computer hooked up to it. Every day he downloads 3000 lines of calibration information into some database. The problem is the politics at GM. Getting someone to make a decision to change what engineering has developed takes divine intervention. They leave it up to the calibration engineers to make it work. Nobody has the balls to go back and get things changed. ....

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shortmagnum
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2005-03-31          109171

I've had a GM credit card for years. Growing up with GM made me think I'd always buy from them. It gives me 5% credit for a GM vehicle with every purchase I make with it. I don't know why I keep it. I passed up thousands in savings by buying a Ford F150 then finally used the credit on my wife's Bonneville. Nice car but two power windows stopped working and three out of five seat belt buckles stopped working, just after warrantee expiration of course. Pontiac fixed the first two but refused to fix the third. What a recipe for a lawsuit, DUH. A deer totaled that car out a year ago and now she's got a Honda accord. What can I say, it's a Honda, no problems at all.

The value of GM stock has dropped in half over the past year. I wonder why?
Dave ....

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DRankin
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2005-03-31          109177

I had a 92 Chevy issued to me as a take-home patrol car.

It averaged 10,000 miles per transmission. It never pulled a trailer or operated in hot weather. Still, couldn't keep a transmission in that thing. ....

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yooperpete
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2005-03-31          109182

I have a character for a brother-in-law that drives Suburbans exclusively and has about 4 or 5 of them. He pays about $400.00 apiece for them and now is up to about 1979 models. Drives them till the doors fall off, he uses ropes to tie them shut. It usually will take 2 motors to get them to 300,000 miles then he uses parts from the others to keep them going. The paint peels on the roof and hood. He paints barn roofs for a living and paints that area of the suburban "barnroof silver". He is usually happy if he has one windshield wiper working. Doesn't worry about locking the doors since the dog inside gives good protection while he is in the bar. He doesn't worry about power windows since he leaves them down for the entire summer. ....

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kwschumm
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2005-03-31          109183

Sounds familiar. My brother had a Pontiac Trans-Am. Three (or four?) transmissions in 30k miles. In the 60's GM made the best automatic transmissions in the world, even made 'em for Rolls Royce. Now - they're crap. My dad used to work for GM and was loyal to them till the day he died, but even he took the last one he had back for condemnation under the lemon law. ....

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grinder
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2005-03-31          109204

StephenR
I looked at the new Toyota on line,if it's the one we are talking about? I was disappointed to read it will have an 84" bed.? I really need an 8' bed in the carpentry business.
If they would build a real full size truck I think every one
would want one.
Did you check out those Honda's? ....

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cthonestguy
Join Date: Jun 2004
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2005-03-31          109223

I have a 2002 with the 4.8 in it. When it was new, If i started it on a cold day and went up my hill it rapped very very little. I usually warm it up but I am a firefighter here in town and when we gat a call I just fire it up and roll. I hammer the hell out of this truck and it now has 90,000 on it. I plow with it, trailer with it and just plain and simple use the heck out of it. Nothing has been in it since 1,500 miles but Mobil 1 5/30.

I have a good friend at a Chevy dealer. He told me to complain about 3 times of the engine noise. The dealer made me leave it over night and they heard it and rated it a 2 on a scale of 10. My buddy told me to call GM customer Care and complain, I did and they gave me a FREE 100,000 mile warranty on my engine! I have it in print if anyone needs a fax.

The piston noise is actually caused from the pistons being very short with hardly any skirt on them for fuel economy. They are sliotted pistons and they need to heat up and expand. This is the 4.8, 5.3 and 6.0- all 3.

I have the same clunk from new in my tranny but 90K and it hasn't broke yet.

I wouldn't worry about the noise as long as it's not too bad. Be sure that if you buy one you pull the stick to see if it's low on oil. I go around 4k on a change and do not use a single drop at 90,000 miles. Also, if it's a private owner, ask them to see it on a cold morning, feel the manifolds to be sure they didn't warm it up and you will see if it's a 2 out of 10 or a 9 out of 10.

Hope this helps...90k and it runs like new. I went to change the plugs last week and took the 1st one out and it was soo good I put it back in! Great engine IMHO. ....

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grinder
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2005-04-01          109237

I got one of those 100,000 mi. warranty's too, free, to make me go away.
I have heard stories on collecting on it though.
Unless you have gone completely by the book on maintenance
and can document it and every oil change you are own you own.
I brought mine in recently because of the morning knock and they could not hear it ,"sorry." Have bought two new trucks from this largest sierra dealer in the USA! You know what
I said,"Merry Christmas". Contractor speak for another two
famous two word term. I gave them the original. I tell
everyone I can how bad this product is and the dealer. ....

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cthonestguy
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2005-04-01          109246

It's all in the dealer and how hard they work for you. I had several minor problems w/ my silverado and they helped me through all of them. The heated mirrors broke 2 times. onec at about 10K then at 75K. They replaced them free at 75K for me.

The A/C was a little problematic too. They went the extra mile and found a service bulitin from an Escalade with the same problem. On idle for a little while, the condensor will get too hot and shut the compressor off. The bulitin called for the instalation of this big GM electric fan. At first I was a little upset I needed this big fat loud fan everytime my compresser kicked on but my A/C is colder than cold. The benefit of this fan is that I plow so i keep the defroster on when the plow is on and the fan keeps my radiator nice and cool.

I think it all depends on the dealer and if it was a good employee or disgruntled UAW guy angry with the world who built your engine. ....

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AV8R
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2005-04-01          109251

"...disgruntled UAW guy angry with the world who built your engine..."

I would disagree with this. Not that angry digruntaled UAW guys don't do their share of screwing things up, but in this case it is a poorly designed piston with too short of a skirt. GM just won't suck it up, admit to the poor design and fix/change it.

Now I usually like short skirts, but in this case its a bad thing. :)
....

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StephenR
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2005-04-01          109261

grinder,
All I saw on the Toyota web site was the Tundra and the Tacoma. From what I heard, since the Tacoma is nearly as big as the Tundra, the Tundra will be going away. The salesman said starting in 2006, that Toyota is going to get serious with 1-ton dualies on down.
Honestguy,
Sounds like your a man who knows how to adjust. Unfortunatly, I would be buying something where I would be at the mercy of the former owner. ....

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grinder
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2005-04-01          109265

Well good luck! At least you have a buyers market. Dealers around here are offering auction prices on trade in's. The market seems to be flooded. Good luck with your search. ....

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brokenarrow
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2005-04-15          109902

My 4.8 vortec slaps slightly when cold. Synthetic has helped but not cured it. After about 2 min. it goes away. I have 125K on my 1999 chev. The slap in minor not major IMHO. ....

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