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 12-04-2008, 17:32 Post: 158370
earthwrks

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 What is your take on the Big-3 hearings

Most of you know I'm within a stone's throw of the Big-3's (that's the DOMESTIC Big-3) headquarters. And in one capacity or other I have worked at/for/with them indirectly including Nissan, Toyota, Saab, Volvo and Rolls-Royce.

Here, nearly one auto job supports in one way or another five other jobs here in Michigan. Nationally it is 1:10.

Opinions?






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 12-04-2008, 23:11 Post: 158379
auerbach



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 What is your take on the Big-3 hearings

Give them money to keep paying employees to keep building 100 models of cars that consumers either can't or won't buy? But if the three amalgamated, centralized and rationalized, and the unions backed off, that should work.






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 12-04-2008, 23:24 Post: 158380
greg_g



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 What is your take on the Big-3 hearings

I don't see an auto industry problem, I see a Michigan problem. Why should the citizens of 49 states - several of which coincidentally host auto manufacturers that don't have their hand out - why should the citizens of 49 states be forced to pick up the slack for one that hosts 3 corporations that have run themselves into the ground?

In my mind, these 3 don't deserve "bailout money". If they truly need help; fire those responsible for the current mess, correct or reverse those conditions which put them in this position - then ask for a loan. It worked for Chrysler in 1980 and Boeing in 2003. Except in this case, anticipate that they'll grab a loan - then declare bankruptcy. Ensure that the terms of any taxpayer funded loan preclude that.

//greg//






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 12-04-2008, 23:53 Post: 158382
kwschumm



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 What is your take on the Big-3 hearings

The Big 3 need to learn how to compete. If they can't compete then they should go belly up. Government already funds too many make work jobs.






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 12-05-2008, 00:51 Post: 158383
candoarms



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 What is your take on the Big-3 hearings

Earthwrks,

I don't believe the U.S. auto makers are at fault for what happened in this case.

The "Big 3" are caught between a government that demands higher gas mileage, lower emissions, excessive safety equipment, etc.....and the consumer, who wants new automobiles without having to pay for excessive amounts of air bags, excessive emissions controls, nor put up with those little tiny engines that don't make any horsepower.

The U.S. government has forced our auto-makers to build vehicles that the American public doesn't want. It really is that simple.

Now the government is going to ask me to bail out the auto-makers, because they can't sell the vehicles the government has forced them to make.

This country is getting closer and closer to the old U.S.S.R. with every passing day.

The answer -- in this, and nearly every other case -- is to give Congress a swift kick in the hindquarters. I wish more Americans would vote to kick those clowns out of office.....as I do.

Joel






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 12-05-2008, 11:18 Post: 158389
AnnBrush



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 What is your take on the Big-3 hearings

"nor put up with those little tiny engines that don't make any horsepower"

You are in the minority here - the more I can squeeze out of my gallon of gas in my little corolla the better - the rest of the US buying public seems to agree.

"The U.S. government has forced our auto-makers to build vehicles that the American public doesn't want. It really is that simple"

Not so - the foreign auto makers are making cars (in the US) under the same rules as the US ones are - they seem to be able to make cars the US customer wants.

This calamity is self inflicted and has little to do with the govt. US auto manufacturers had to make cars with big profit margins (SUV's and Light duty trucks) to stay in business as their total costs per delivered car are higher. This is due in large part to the fact that their legacy and current total employee costs (not just cost per hour) are about twice what the foreign (but made in the US) manufacturers are. When their sputtering business plan ran up against high gas prices and a faltering economy no one wanted to buy a SUV or truck. People started buying smaller economy vehicles. These smaller vehicles provide nowhere near the profit as does a SUV and so the manufacturer (already in a precarious financial position) tanks because they cant make the high margins they need to support their cost structure.

They need to file for bankruptcy - one will probably go insolvent) - and reorganize. Union jobs will have total pay packages about half of what they are now and the co's will be able to focus on selling cars people will actually buy.






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 12-05-2008, 12:39 Post: 158391
earthwrks

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 What is your take on the Big-3 hearings

Okay. A few questions:

How many of you have stock in the auto industry?

Anyone have family retired or working for the B3 or a supplier? And if so, does that influence how you see the situation?






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 12-05-2008, 13:30 Post: 158395
greg_g



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 What is your take on the Big-3 hearings

Not a stock owner, I sorta like to think I've been smarter than that.

As far as family retired or working for the B3 or a supplier influencing my opinion - no. But why should that influence our responses to your original post? The vast majority of American taxpayers have no vested interest in financial problems that pretty obviously originate in Michigan. And those who DON'T pay taxes, would only care if the issue affected their own handouts.

FWIW - whether or not she's affected by your 2nd question - I think Ann's response was right on the money.

//greg//






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 12-05-2008, 13:40 Post: 158397
yooperpete



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 What is your take on the Big-3 hearings

I'm a supplier to the auto industry and fear if they file chapter 11 that I will be holding the bag on more than $150,000.00 of product that was recently shipped in the last 60 days. If they file, they keep the merchandise and I get nothing. Bankrupcy courts also go back about 6 months and force you to give back payments in that time period to redistribute, first to those that have secured loans/sales.

If they file, that means my privately owned business will most likely fail? Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

I always wave the U.S. flag here. American cars are lots better than many suggest. When they said on "Good Morning America" that the execs may not make it to D.C. driving there cars that was a slap in the face.

I agree that there is waste, high wages and rediculous legacy costs that the big 3 must condend with. Something needs to be done!






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 12-05-2008, 14:29 Post: 158398
earthwrks

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 What is your take on the Big-3 hearings

Yooper: Sounds like you may need to go belly up just to protect your ASSets. A fabricator friend was screwed by the same client I had (who didn't screw me) for $4000 under that 6-month go-back. I spoke to other guys who have been taken for $150,000 by other guys. This same jerk had boasted to me while I was working for him that he gone bankrupt twice before soley because his accountant said it was time to keep some profits. I got out before he could get me. And a year has passed so I'm in the clear.

I have to wonder what happens if you simply don't have the money if they go back 6 months? BTW, a majority of those funds don't even go to creditors---they go to the so-called Trustees who take that money as fees. They were really upset with me that I either owed more than the equipment was worth, or was not desirable to resell like a gas engine dump truck, or a had a UCC filing gainst it (no UCC filing ---they take it and sell it for pennies on a dollar)

Greg, I emerged from Chapter 7 last March so I know the cascade effect is real. Right now it's Michigan, soon it will be nationwide. 90% of my customers work(ed) or are related to the auto industry. Simply put, if someone doesn't have a job, they have no money to eat let alone get work done.

In the bigger scheme of things, when it comes to the economy it's like playing musical chairs.






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