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Ford 800 - 3pt lift issue - need advise

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HuskyGTH200
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 23 Tug Hill NY
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2009-10-02          166108

Looking for some advise on an issue with Ford 800. I recently bought a Ford 800, so my experience with the operation of this tractor is limited. The issue that I am having is with the lifting of an implement on the 3pt. When having a 5' foot bush hog connected to the 3 pt arms, the lift height is maybe 3" to 4" max. When I detach the bush hog, the lift arms lift, what appears to be 18" to 24" high. I even checked the lift height, by having it lift my body weight by me standing on a lift arm. It seems to lift me full range, no problem. Even checked to see if the float lever made a difference in operation in any position. No difference. I am suspect of a pump issue, maybe going bad or is there an adjustment somewhere on the 800 that would increase the lift height? Any advise, opinions would greatly be appreciated.......
Thanks
Scottt


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Ford 800 - 3pt lift issue - need advise

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-10-02          166109

Do you hear the pressure relief valve hissing when it reaches it's limit of travel with the bush hog attached? ....

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Ford 800 - 3pt lift issue - need advise

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2009-10-02          166110

By having the arms fully lift without the bush hog would indicate that the pump does function and that it has enough flid to lift the arms. What it doesn't indicate is whether the pump is worn enough that it will only lift the weight of the arms.
Does the tractor have hydraulic outlets to hook an auxillary cylinder for lifting an impliment with? If so borrow a pressure guage form a dealer or make one yourslf with coupler and a guage that will read up to 2000 psi. You can get the coupler and a guage from most any farm store.
I don't know how much pressure your pump should generate, but an owners manual or a service manual will tell you. I wouldn't expect it to read right up to new specs. but 10% or so lower than new should lift the mower. ....

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Ford 800 - 3pt lift issue - need advise

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HuskyGTH200
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 23 Tug Hill NY
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2009-10-02          166111

With the tractor running at the same time of checking the lift I did not notice (hear) the hissing from the pressure relief valve..............I am assuming I should hear it hissing?......displacing air....right?

And also, there are no external hydraulic connection for a pressure check...... ....

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Ford 800 - 3pt lift issue - need advise

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2009-10-02          166112

Does this tractor have automatic draft control?

The easy way to tell is if it does it will a) have a movable (pivoting) upper 3pth mounting boss, and b) it will have 2 levers that control the 3pth raise/lower function.

If the auto draft is engaged the weight of the bush hog on the upper link will tell the hitch to stop lifting. Without the upper point connected (such as when you stand on the arms) there is no action in the control (the upper mounting boss) to tell it to stop.

Best of luck. ....

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Ford 800 - 3pt lift issue - need advise

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HuskyGTH200
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 23 Tug Hill NY
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2009-10-02          166113

Murf,
Well I beleive it does have the draft control lever.....which I may have called the float lever, earlier. I doesn't seem to matter which position the lever is in the lift is the same.....My understanding the lever should be vertical........horizontal is more of a float, depth adjustment for plowing.... ....

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Ford 800 - 3pt lift issue - need advise

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2009-10-02          166114

There is a h-u-g-e difference between standing on the lower arms and a 5 ft brushhog--my 5' weighs 475 lb.--it's called leverage.

If you weigh 200 lb. and apply that weight to the lower arms that's "X" amount of leverage---but if you stand 5' back on a lever connected to that lower arm it increases your weight 5 times or 1000 lb.

My feeling is the pump is weak, and or th lift piston seal is worn or nearly gone. I know on Fordson 9Ns there were issues with holes in the pistons where the ball pushes on it. My old 2N had a similar issue--turned out the pump was cracked in half and the piston seal was still the leather type which I changed to an O-ring. ....

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Ford 800 - 3pt lift issue - need advise

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HuskyGTH200
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 23 Tug Hill NY
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2009-10-02          166115

Earthworks i agree.......I will take your 200lbs reference as a compliment. I am 250lbs......anyway......When it lifted me, I was checking to see what it would lift, hopefully not to indicate a completely shot pump. Would it need a new pump or can it be rebuilt...? how can i know for sure if its a pump or lift piston seal?
Thanks ....

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Ford 800 - 3pt lift issue - need advise

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2009-10-02          166117

Husky;
Only way to know for sure without taking the pump off would be to find a way to tap in to a pressure line coming from the pump with a pressure guage.
Does having the tractor warm, transmission and all make a difference over having everything overnight cold?
I'm not a Ford person, but surely on the internet you can find rebuilt or aftermarket pumps for less than Ford. ....

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Ford 800 - 3pt lift issue - need advise

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HuskyGTH200
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 23 Tug Hill NY
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2009-10-02          166118

I would say that there is no difference in hot or cold operation, pretty consistent......won't lift more than a few inches.... I will check things out more this evening....keep ya posted...
thanks to all
Scott ....

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Ford 800 - 3pt lift issue - need advise

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2009-10-02          166119

Husky, got it now, yes your machine has draft control then.

There should be either a lever under the seat with two positions, vertical or horizontal. In the vertical position it is in "Position Control" and the usual lever to the right has full control. In the horizontal position it is in "Draft Control" and the implements load on the upper 3rd point will determine lift height. Unless you are doing 'ground engaging' work, plowing, etc., you want that lever in the vertical position.

If you have the newer style it's a second lever right beside the 3pth control lever, like a twin lever setup. This setup works differently altogether, it uses the second lever almost like a limit control.

My first guess is that either the Draft Control lever or valve isn't moving properly and you're stuck in between the 2 positions. Does the lever seem to move freely and easily?

BTW, I believe there's a hex plug on the side of the transmission on those tractors that is a pressure tap off the pump outlet. If you want remote power all you need to do is remove that screw and thread in a fitting and install a valve. You can also put a pressure gauge straight into the opening as well.

Best of luck. ....

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Ford 800 - 3pt lift issue - need advise

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2009-10-02          166122

I'm not familiar with your machine, but I just started taking mine apart without any testing. On mine the same casting that held the lift arm assembly was also thetrans./axle cover (which is under the seat) had to be removed to get to the pump. And it while it was off, since the piston is inside that same casting, I serviced it while it was out (pretty sure I had to install a new piston that was made for an O-ring.

My pump was a crude "wobble-piston type". It was 65 years old and not rebuildable. I found a used one for $250 from the dealer in their old parts bin (they wanted to extort $450 out of me but I wasn't having that!).

Look on the web for parts. Google something like "Ford 800 hydraulic pump rebuild kit piston $" ....

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Ford 800 - 3pt lift issue - need advise

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2009-10-03          166132

Your tractor is little bigger than the 9N/2N/8N. And it was made after them in the 1950's from what I can tell.

Just one place I checked online shows:

Hydraulic Pump Repair Kit - FORD NAA 600 700 800 900 2000 4000

Piston Type Pump; OEM # CCPN600B;

Application: FORD NAA 600 700 800 900 2000 4000

$49.99

And the part I described is similar to my old 2N is called a "lift cover". Seal kit for $10.



....

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