IH 560 engine trouble  Need help : Farmall IHC  -- Antique Tractors Discussion Forum and Review IH 560 engine trouble Need help : Farmall IHC -- Antique Tractors Discussion Forum

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 07-09-2007, 22:52 Post: 143558
iamhistory



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 IH 560 engine trouble Need help

Hey All.........

I have an IH 560 (approx. a 1959 or 1960) that has lost a severe amount of power in the engine.

I bought the tractor 4 years ago and it has a Wagner backhoe and a Wagner loader on it (VERY HEAVY MACHINE!!). Initially it ran a little rough but would start and get from point A to point B without trouble, dig w/ the hoe and push large stumps and brush piles without any problem with the loader. I started losing engine power while pushing a brush pile in our field and had a few backfires causing the oil in the air cleaner to come up out and onto the hood of the tractor. Any strain on the motor whatsoever just made the rpm's die right down to a stall if I didn't engage the clutch and stop.

Since then it starts rough and has NO power. I can barely get it to carry its own weight in 1st gear just to move it from one place to another.

A guy told me the air flow wasn't right and that the old carb probably needed to be cleaned out and put back together with some new gaskets, etc. Also, it probably isn't helping that the exhaust pipe is quite rusty and has a few holes in it right on the manifold. I am trying to replace it but can't find any parts very easily around here without buying everything new.

The same fella that told me to clean the carb and check the air also told me to dump some automatic transmission fluid into the cylinders (because they freeze up sometimes after the tractor sits and I have to loosen up the flywheel by hand to get it to start) and let it run for about an hour. He said that'll free up everything the fluid touches and bring out impurities/clean things up so that starting it in the future will not be so difficult and give me some compression/power back. He said if I got the carb straightened out that would take care of my power problem and then with a bit of care/replacement parts in a few other areas and the transmission fluid idea......the motor should be running much better.

Any input on this? I have dumped some oil into the cylinders as I work the flywheel and once I get it loosened up I try and let the pistons pump most of the oil back out and then it just smokes a bit once I put everything back together and start it up. The tractor will idle ok but when put into gear it just wants to die right away.

I would like to put some work into this machine and get it fixed up a bit but if it is going to be too expensive I will just put it up for sale.

Thanks guys.
iamhistory






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 07-10-2007, 00:55 Post: 143560
candoarms



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 IH 560 engine trouble Need help

Iamhistory,

It sounds to me as though you could have a possible intake valve problem, as well as worn rings on the pistons.

Oil coming up through the air cleaner is a sign of worn piston rings, allowing the oil to come up on top of the piston. if the intake valve isn't seating properly, this oil will then come out through the carb, on the compression stroke.

I would do a compression check on each cylinder. Pull a spark plug and screw in a compression gauge. Turn the engine over with a wrench. (disconnect the battery terminals!) When you reach top dead center (TDC) on the compression stroke, you should have high pressure, and it should hold for a few seconds. If you have a very low pressure reading, and it drops right away, it's a sure sign of a valve or ring problem.

You could also hook up an air hose from your air compressor. You'll have to figure out a way to attach it to your compression gauge fitting. Allow air to flow into into each spark plug opening directly from your air compressor. The engine may turn over slightly, so keep your fingers and hands clear of any moving parts.

If you have a ring problem, you should hear air escaping from the engine's crank case vent. If it's a valve problem, you will likely hear the air escaping through the carb, or the exhaust.

Your friend is correct. You can pour a little transmission fluid in each cylinder to keep the rings free. Diesel fuel works just as well. Just be sure to change your engine oil prior to the next use.

If you need parts, please give Pete's Tractor Salvage a chance to help you. Pete's Tractor salvage is world famous for his inventory. He's located just 75 miles from me, but he has customers in nearly every nation.

Pete's Tractor Salvage, Anamoose, North Dakota. See web link posted below.

I hope this helps.

Joel






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 07-10-2007, 01:14 Post: 143561
candoarms



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 IH 560 engine trouble Need help

Iamhistory,

One more thing to keep in mind...........

If you do run transmission fluid into the cylinders, it will certainly clean up your engine for you.....and it will do a danged good job of it.

However, all of the sludge that has built up in your engine over the years will instantly clog your engine's oil filter. If you run your engine for even five minutes afterward, you could possibly starve your engine of needed oil, which will quickly destroy it.

Be sure to check your engine's oil filter after adding any engine cleaner, or transmission fluid. A visual inspection is sufficient. If you see gobs of mud and sludge in the filter, you will have to replace the oil filter, and probably several new filters in succession.

Cheapy oil filters (or even used filters) are fine for this work. When your filters finally appear clean, change the engine oil again and replace the cheapy with a quality filter.



Joel






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 07-10-2007, 07:59 Post: 143564
Art White



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 IH 560 engine trouble Need help

The 560 would be like a tank set up with the loader and backhoe. I find it a bit unusual that you have to work at freeing up the engine. I would wonder that you might have had a stuck valve or as most engines when the electric system hasn't been maintained well might backfire thru the carb. I would do a compression test as the tools are cheap and it would help to sort out your problems with it. There are several tractor bone yards in PA with wengers being one of the largest put we still don't know if you need one!






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 07-10-2007, 11:36 Post: 143571
candoarms



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 IH 560 engine trouble Need help

Iamhistory,

I'm not sure how the camshaft is driven on the IH 560, but you could simply have a problem with the valve timing.

A worn cam sprocket(s), or stretched chain, would explain the severe loss of power.

But oil coming up through the carb is a bit more concerning to me. Hopefully this is due to nothing more than worn piston rings. A compression check will identify the faulty cylinder, or cylinders.

I truly hope you don't have a hole burned in a piston, or a valve that has punched through a piston -- but even these problems can be fixed.

Joel






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 07-10-2007, 14:24 Post: 143578
iamhistory



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 IH 560 engine trouble Need help

Thanks for the input fellas. I will do the compression test. If the test is ok then what? If the test is not ok....do I then have to take the motor apart and put new rings in all the cylinders?

I would have thought that if the rings were getting worn there would have been a noticeable progression into the "no power" category and not just happen one day. I can recall the noticeable loss of power back to one specific day and things haven't been running right since then.

Thanks again.






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 07-10-2007, 14:28 Post: 143579
iamhistory



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 IH 560 engine trouble Need help

Something else to add to this is that the guy that was making the suggestions about the power loss, etc. to me also said that it could be that an adjustment on the distributor is needed as things could be out of time a little (as was mentioned in a post).

How do I know if the timing needs adjusted and then if I've made the proper adjustments?






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 07-10-2007, 14:48 Post: 143580
iamhistory



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 IH 560 engine trouble Need help

I was going to ask in a different thread but since you guys are far more experienced than I am when it comes to tractors, I have a question about the model of my 560.

I can't tell for sure the year or actual model of it. I know that there were some made that were painted yellow for road crews (I think) and mine is yellow. It has the yellow and white paint scheme but it looks like it is not factory paint and someone may have painted over some red here and there. I can't really tell 100%.

I also had a dealer come out and give me a quote on a trade (I've bought a Kubota this year) and he said it was different and didn't know the model either. I believe he called the rear tires/fenders "low profile".

It does not have a 3 point hitch or pto. It has the 4 wheel design for the front wheels and not the tricycle style. I've looked for some serial numbers and such but being a '59 or '60 I can't really see anything well enough to tell. The guy I bought it from had it from his dad and he didn't know much about it except that they had it a long time. He even told me it had glow plugs and it's a gas motor. I thought that sounded a little strange.

So how can I find out for sure exactly what I have so I can start educating myself more about it?

Thanks again guys. Much appreciated.






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 07-10-2007, 15:22 Post: 143582
candoarms



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 IH 560 engine trouble Need help

Iamhistory,

A compression check won't tell you much. It WILL ONLY help you identify the problem cylinder, or cylinders.

If you are losing air through all four cylinders, I would say you have a valve issue. If you are losing air through only one cylinder, you may have a ring or piston issue.

You'll be able to narrow down your problem, once you figure out where the air is escaping from.

If the pressurized air is escaping from the crank case, you know it's a piston or ring issue.

If the air escapes from the carb, you know it's an intake issue.

If the air is escaping through the exhaust, it will then be an exhaust valve issue.

Even if you determine that you are losing air on your compression check, it does not mean that you have any serious problems. It could simply mean that your valves are not closing when they are supposed to. Your problems are more severe if you are losing air through the crankcase.

A simple timing check on your engine is not difficult to do. You will need to loosen the screw or bolt that holds your distributor in place (you may have to remove the distributor cap to do this.) and then you'll be able to rotate your distributor while the engine is running. (You have to replace the cap to do this)

Once you find the place where the engine is running pretty well, you can then tighten the screw or bolt just slightly.....enough to hold it place, but not tight.

Shut the tractor off.

Now, with the first cylinder at top dead center on the compression cycle, (you may have to remove the valve cover in order to see that both valves are closed) You can check your timing. You'll probably be OK with about 4 degrees of advance. There may be a timing mark on the front of the engine somewhere.

If so, this will make things much easier for you, as you can simply use a timing light to check this while the engine is running.

Do a simple compression check, and then me know where your air is escaping from. Once I know this information, I will be able to help you pinpoint the problem, and then go on with further diagnostics.

Good luck with the project. I'm hoping to hear good news.

Joel






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 07-10-2007, 15:33 Post: 143583
Art White



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 IH 560 engine trouble Need help


The 560 engine just like many others in the farm industry is a gear drive cam.
If the compression is low on a cylinder then you need to put some oil in the cylinder and ceck again to see if it gains, if it does then you have a problem with the rings.

I'd check the points as if they have worn the piece that opens them to much then it would advance the spark. If that wasn't worn to much and thru another electrical problem where the spark exchanges that would retard the timing.






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