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Kerosene or Number 1 fuel oil

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BountyHunter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 33 SE Mich
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2003-09-25          64822

Does anyone know if kerosene is the same as #1 fuel oil, and if so, can youu mix it with #2 to keep it from jelling in the winter time? Thanks

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-09-25          64877

Kerosene has no lubricants added to ensure a long injection pump life and seeing as some injection pumps do use the fuel for lubrication you might be spending a lot more money to fix then ever realized in savings. ....

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BountyHunter
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Posts: 33 SE Mich
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2003-09-26          64882

It's not that I'm concerned with saving a few cents per gallon, but kerosene seems to be more available in my area. You can find it at almost any corner gas station. If I could find #1 fuel I would buy that. I don't want to store a lot of fuel due to condensation etc... maybe only 10 to 20 gal at a time. I am concerned about jelling fuel in the winter...I used to drive a truck for a living and hated to be stuck on the side of the road because of jelled or iced up fuel. ....

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Art White
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Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-09-26          64883

I can understand your concern! For the most part in our area they do mix Kerosene with number 2 for winter operation. We have a product that we sell called Power Serve that has worked very well for us. There are other products that are probably the same or close in your area. With the years we have had problems here in Central NY we have found this to be the best we have worked with. To fill you in on how good it is, we are on St Route 12 which is a major north south arterial for Central NY and tractor trailers area common on this route. Trucks from the south that don't have the mixed fuel will often pull up barely running. With a stiff mix and thirty minutes later of idling they drive off as if it never happened. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-09-26          64888

#1-diesel and stove oil are about the same, and most every oil dealer around here has stove oil. It's also less expensive than kerosene. It smells worse too so it's likely less refined. I think kerosene is mostly an expensive polite version of stove oil.

Anyway, that's what I use during the winter along with an additive that contains both anti-gel and pump lubricant. The cloud point of #1 is around -25F and it gets colder than that around here so I figure that even straight #1 might use some help from anti-gel but I use it more for the conditioner and lubricant.

If I bought fuel from a high volume gas station during the winter I imagine the fuel would already be well mixed with #1 but I mix it myself to make sure that I don't end up with summer blend during the winter. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-09-26          64894

Been trying to reply to this for a few days. You can mix Kerosene with #2 Diesel is proportion of about 20% and achieve a good likelihood of no fuel gelling. I would try this as a LAST resort. Why would you do want to do this when you can add readily available fuel additives such as Howes or Power Service (White Container). #1 Diesel and Kerosene are pretty none gelling fuels but also have lower BTU values as well as much less lubricity than good ol'e #2 Diesel. In fact Howes as a no gell guarantee that says they will pay for the tow service if you ever have gelled fuel. I would take this to mean service to get my tractor towed into a heated garage or area as well. A bottle of Howes 1/2 gal. cost about $10 and treats 250 gallons or 1 oz. per 4 gallons of fuel. Power Service 96 oz. Bottle at Walmart cost $10 and treats 300 gallons or 1 oz. per 3 1/4 gallons of fuel. Power Service states that their additive protects from gelling down to -40 and is equivalent to a 50/50 mix of #1 & #2 Diesel. Unless you operate under very extreme & severe circumstances; I would stick with #2 Diesel and a good additive.

....


Link:   Howes Lubricator

 
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BountyHunter
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Posts: 33 SE Mich
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2003-09-26          64905

Thanks for the info...Thats probably the way I'll go. I live in Michigan and it usually never gets below -10 to -20 at the coldest nights. I used to use power service in my truck and it worked pretty well so I don't know why it wouldn't work in my tractor. --Thanks ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-09-27          64953

I heard a story about somebody that bought the wrong bottle of conditioner/anti-icer and did a bunch of damage to a diesel engine. He got a type for gas rather than diesel engines at a box store and the bottles looked similar. The gas engine type contains methanol, which is a no no almost up there with ether for diesels.

I think most people here know that but I didn't when I first got my tractor. I did buy a can of starter-fluid with intent but fortunately read not to do it here. As it turned out I never would have had occasion to use it anyway since I've never had a starting problem even at -30C. These winter starting diesel engine horror stories are mostly history now--at least as long as the engines are maintained properly.
....

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BountyHunter
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2003-09-27          64979

You mean you cant use a spritz of ether in the winter if it wont fire? ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-09-27          64984

If the glow plugs or grid heater will not get it to fire. Something is wrong. Ether just risks making it worst. If you absolutely have to use a start aid such as this try WD-40 first. If you must use ether (and I STRONGLY advise against it), the best way to use it is to spray some on a rag and place it in the vicinity close to the air cleaner intake (not so close that is gets sucked into the air cleaner) and attempt the start. Ether is about 50 octane and is extremely explosive. Not what a diesel likes. ....

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2003-09-28          65002

NEVER NEVER NEVER use a starting fluid of any type on an engine that has glow plugs. The stuff will burn and or detonate in the intake manifold and blow your air cleaners to smitherreens. Not to mention possible fire if a fuel source is handy.

If you have to use a starting aid DISCONNECT the glow plugs.

WD-40 works, the reason some mechanics like to it because it lubricates, so they say. The move against ether (diesel nose candy) was it dried the cylinder walls. Most now have a lubricant in them.

Some of our older equipment requires ether to start and it is stardard practice. Of course you can get a ether lock up if you use to much... ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-09-28          65012

I don't know if some of the manifold pre-heaters used on direct injection engines may ignite ether like glow plugs or not. I believe there's a system that drips fuel onto a heated element in the manifold used on some Yanmars maybe. Best to just not use the stuff on any modern diesel. A problem is that if ether is resorted and it doesn't work, you can't immediately go back to trying to start it with glow plugs.

Block heater glow plugs and a good battery work for me and it starts as easy at -20C as it does in the summer. I've never had to try WD-40 except on fishing lures but I wouldn't hesitate trying if I had to. I'd probably try propane heaters in the shed for a couple of hours first. I have heard of people warming air going into an engine with hair dryers but I don't know if that does any good.
....

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DRankin
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Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-09-28          65015

Tom, next time you get a cold spell up there take a hair dryer outside and try it. I think you will be underwhelmed. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-09-29          65048

Yes Mark, I know what you mean. I do use a heat gun (paint stripper) for unfreezing locks and latches fairly regularly. They would have more heat and less air than a hair dryer but they still don't get real hot.

The idea seems sort of like an external version of manifold heaters that are use on some direct injection engines. I just don't know a heat gun actually would make much difference although I have heard of people trying it. I just read a comment on the antique board and it seems that manifold heaters were used on some Fords at least back as far as the '70's. I think these were around at the same time as some of the factory ether injection systems so the issue isn't new.

A book I have sounds like the robot on Lost in Space with all the warnings about never using ether when manifold or glow-plug heaters. It's probably a good thing diesel design modernized and they became easier to start so nobody should have to use ether.
....

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MadRefereee
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Posts: 23 New Hampshire
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2003-10-10          65930

Back in the mid 90's I owned a convenience store with gas pumps. Every fall the distributor would call and ask for the tank readings for the diesel so they could make winter blend from the summer stuff. They would then send a truck with kerosene and mix it with the fuel in the diesel storage tanks. The final ratio was about 2-1 (2 gals diesel and 1 gal kero). This was the winter blend. All deliveries after the mix were then winter blend. ....

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2003-10-11          66001

Wasn't gonna but what ta heck... I recall many times in Alaska at -40 and lower if a car or truck did not catch. Dragging a blanket out and putting it over the top of an engine and sticking a hair dryer under it aimed at the manifold area.

Most cars and trucks have battery blankets and block heaters installed but occasionally something extra was needed. Especially if it had gotten unplugged and you needed to go. ....

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