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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Diesel Fuel Lubrication Engine Additives Forum

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 04-03-2007, 11:05 Post: 140976
jknoche5



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 why warnings for starter fluid in diesel

The JD 4700 book say do not use starter fluid. But the 4700 has no glow plugs (right?) and so isn't the risk of premature ignition a moot point? Used sparingly is starter fluid a real problem or just a John Deere's means of covering its derrier?






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 04-03-2007, 13:50 Post: 140980
Art White



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 why warnings for starter fluid in diesel

Starting fluid tends to dry out an engine which is why they don't like it's use.






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 04-03-2007, 16:29 Post: 140985
greg_g



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 why warnings for starter fluid in diesel

If you have to use starting fluid, then something else is wrong with your engine. But - I do not oppose conservative use of starting fluid as a troubleshooting approach. The problem with most folks who end up with engine troubles, is that they use to much.

Being extremely volatile, starting fluid will explode under compression much much sooner than will diesel fuel delivered by timed injector. As such, too much starting fluid at once can cause detonation well outside acceptable engine timing parameters. When you get two or more cylinders detonating at the same time, you end up with a locked up engine at best - and a broken engine at worst.

So to cover all the bases, the manufacturers simply say - DON'T USE IT. After the dealer/factory warranty has expired, I'm sure they could care less.

//greg//






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 05-26-2007, 13:43 Post: 142484
cowpie1



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 why warnings for starter fluid in diesel

Ditto!! You got it right all the way around!

The manufacturers have to assume that everyone is a moron. With legal issues a continuous problem for any business, they have to cover the bases.






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 05-26-2007, 20:41 Post: 142494
earthwrks

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 why warnings for starter fluid in diesel

cowpie, having written owners and service manuals for several auto manufacturers, it's not so much that the manufacturers think their customers are morons. The legal system frowns on producers who don't adequately advise consumers of the potential dangers, and therefore punishes them. It's the product liability lawyers who drive the system. When I was a writer I was known for being cautious. Part of my position was to review a car in prototype stage for possible safety issues that had to change before production. Once I was working on an electric Infiniti convertible validating my operating procedures with a big-shot from Infiniti. My procedure clearly stated, "do not put your fingers in convertible pull down actuator wells in the windshield header". So what does the big-shot do? He puts a finger in there, hits the button and loses part of his finger. We changed the pull down system pronto, but even that was just as dangerous. My point is even though the designers, the engineers, the guys that made the prototype, and upper management that approved the system loved the first version, it was not saleable to the public who have no clue (and rightfully so) on how to use it. It assuemd that if someone puts something on the market it is fit for the purpose intended.






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 06-05-2007, 21:37 Post: 142749
chipuren



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 why warnings for starter fluid in diesel

Ether explodes much more readily and violently than diesel. (which is why it starts easier). Just got done replacing a head gasket on a tractor that was "started" on either (starting fluid) when the injector pump had failed. Doubled the cost of the repair of the bad injector pump.






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 06-06-2007, 10:58 Post: 142757
Chief



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 why warnings for starter fluid in diesel

In addition to the reasons listed and the primary reason for the warning is that the 4700 and other similar models using this particular Yanmar series engine employ a cold start aid in which a heater grid is activated by pushing the ignition key in prior to start if cold weather condition require it. This heater grid is somewhat similar to the Cummins heater grid cold start aid but the Yanmar engine cold start aid is a manual system and does not employ an intake manifold temp sensor and auto relay to cycle the heater grid. Using ether with an active glow plug or heater grid is VERY likely to end with disasterous results.






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 06-06-2007, 22:03 Post: 142764
earthwrks

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 why warnings for starter fluid in diesel

Chief that Yanmar system...is that the one that literally lites a small pot of fuel afire in the intake tube?






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 06-07-2007, 08:46 Post: 142773
Chief



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 why warnings for starter fluid in diesel

No, it is a heater grid in or before the intake manifold that heats the air drawn through it. I believe that old models as well as other manufacturers have used a cold start aid that vaporizes diesel fuel in the intake manifold via an electric heater strip.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Diesel Fuel Lubrication Engine Additives Forum

Thread 140976 Filter by Poster:
Art White 1 | Chief 2 | chipuren 1 | cowpie1 1 | earthwrks 2 | greg_g 1 | jknoche5 1 |

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