Concern about Synthetics and O-Rings : Diesel Fuel Lubrication Engine Additives  -- Tractor Maintenance Discussion Forum and Review Concern about Synthetics and O-Rings : Diesel Fuel Lubrication Engine Additives -- Tractor Maintenance Discussion Forum

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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Diesel Fuel Lubrication Engine Additives Forum

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 01-21-2005, 02:42 Post: 104584
tomrscott



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 Concern about Synthetics and O-Rings

I was reading through the applications information in the Weatherhead catalog (one of the larger makers of hydraulic fittings - see links below) and came across this warning. Just curious if it applies to the synthetic oils we've talked about, or are they unrelated?

"Petroleum or Mineral Oil Based Hydraulic Fluids - ... good general purpose fluids ... All Weatherhead fittings and O-rings can be used with these fluids."

"Straight Synthetic Hydraulic Fluids - is a general term applied to such products as Pydraul, Lindol, Cellulubes 90, 150, 180, 220, etc. ... O-rings must be made of "Butyl" compound or they will "swell" when contacted by synthetic fluids."

This latter note clearly excludes the "Buna-N" O-ring material that is in almost all of Weatherhead's fittings, and I believe is the standard material.

If this note applied to the synthetic engine and transmission oils so popular with many, and often used in our hydraulic systems, there would be a real concern with O-ring hydraulic fittings, quick disconnects, and other applications. I believe most of these use Buna-N O-rings.

Are the synthetic engine oils different from the synthetics they are talking about, or should this be a concern?

Link to Eaton Weatherhead catalogs online:
http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/hose_and_fittings_main.htm#wh202

Link to Steel Fittings section that talks about O-Rings and synthetics:
http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/pdfs/W-HYOV-MC001-E_steel_fittings.pdf






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 01-21-2005, 11:02 Post: 104609
DRankin



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 Concern about Synthetics and O-Rings

30 years ago, maybe more, before the dawning of Mobil 1 and Amsoil, synthetic oils were designed to lubricate jet engines at high (cold) altitudes.

Dumbbells brought the stuff home and poured it into the crankcase of the family car. That stuff ate the 'O' rings and gaskets and that is where the story started.

Any oil, synthetics included, has to have several additives mixed in to do all the things it is supposed to do.... including being kind to seals and gaskets.

I think you can rest assured that when a major oil company (like Mobil or Chevron) designs a synthetic oil and says it is safe to use in your engine or in your tractor hydraulic system, that they have done the homework and put in the correct additives.






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 01-21-2005, 11:11 Post: 104611
Murf

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 Concern about Synthetics and O-Rings

The other point is that this warning is for HYDRAULIC systems.

The componenets vary widely depending on the application, in some situations, such as food processing areas they actually use things like vegetable or straight mineral oil as a hydraulic fluid. This is in order to meet food quality safety standards which do not allow petroleum products in close proximity in case of a leak or spill.

So to answer your question, no, the synthetics are not any different, the seals are.

Best of luck.






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 01-21-2005, 22:40 Post: 104663
tomrscott



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 Concern about Synthetics and O-Rings

Murf,

I think you are missing the point. If you re-read the quote from Weatherhead, or better yet, follow the link and read the entire section from them. The point is NOT that "the seals have improved", Weatherhead is specifically warning that the current industry-standard Buna-N seals are not appropriate for use with some synthetics.

I think the question is, are the current crop of synthetics modified in ways that prevent them from harming Buna-N seals?

I am would guess the answer is yes, but thought it was worth asking anyway.






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 01-22-2005, 09:12 Post: 104679
DRankin



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 Concern about Synthetics and O-Rings

"Straight Synthetic Hydraulic Fluids - is a general term applied to such products as Pydraul, Lindol, Cellulubes 90, 150, 180, 220, etc"

This has to be the key to understanding the warning. You won't find such fluids in the corner auto parts or tractor supply store.






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 01-24-2005, 09:13 Post: 104804
Murf

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 Concern about Synthetics and O-Rings

Mark is right, of course, the point I was trying to make was two-fold, but maybe I wasn't clear enough.

First, the compounds which are likely to harm some seals won't be found in something like 'synthetic' engine or transmission fluid, only in specialized hydraulic fluid.

Secondly, the stuff you would buy retail will be tested and proven on 'automotive grade' seals for warranty / liability reasons.

Best of luck.






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 01-24-2005, 22:01 Post: 104860
DRankin



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"Mark is right, of course...."

I hate being right all the time. Maybe I should try left for a while.

Naaah...






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 01-25-2005, 09:34 Post: 104880
Murf

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"I hate being right all the time."

Mark, are you & your wife not on speaking terms anymore?






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 01-25-2005, 10:40 Post: 104883
DRankin



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"She who must be obeyed" and I are doing fine, at least today.

Speaking of right/left stuff..... did you notice that Hollyweird played it smart and passed on nominating Micheal Moore for Best Anything?






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