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Ethanol another tax

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-12-19          149436

I bought a new truck in January and, until recently, it has been getting about 21 mpg. In the last two months the mileage dropped to about 18. We always buy Chevron gas so I emailed them to ask if they reformulated their gasoline and, if so, when. Sure enough, starting this year in our area they add 10% ethanol November through February. That seems to explain why my mileage dropped. So in addition to $3/gallon gas we're now hit with another 10-15% hike due to "feel good" legislation. It's not like we have a big air quality problem here. Instead of chipping slash maybe I should start burning it to offset the good I'm doing by burning ethanol in my tank.

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-12-19          149437

Ken, it's a real barn burner to have to spend money to get what you bargained for in the first place, but.....

I've noticed a lot of people up here recently buying those reprogrammers for their trucks to be able to tweak the computer in order to maintain performance even though their burning ethanol blends.

If it helps any, in most areas the premium fuel is still not an ethanol blend, it's usually a straight gas still. If you experiment a bit you might be surprised, my Rover is actually cheaper (in $ per mile) to drive on premium than on regular since it goes further on the good stuff, sufficiently further per tank to more than negate the extra cost of the fuel.

BTW, ethanol is becoming a HUGE problem in certain parts of the aviation industry too, a lot of the Ultra-light aircraft and the new Light Sport category aircraft are powered by large 2 or 4 stroke Rotax engines that burn regular gas not the 100LL AvGas that we do. Apparently the ethanol does nasty things to those engines.

Since it's tough to pull over and get out on a cloud when there's a mechanical problem, it's causing a lot of people a lot of grief.

Makes me glad I have a 'real' airplane!!

Best of luck. ....

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Ethanol another tax

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bialecki
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 60 Southern Connecticut
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2007-12-19          149438

Back in November I drove my 2008 Ford F-250 from home in CT to my wife's parents place in Roanoke, VA. Funny with the first tank of gas bought in CT I was averaging ~13 miles/ gallon. When I filled up in VA I was averaging 15 miles/ gallon,(per the trucks computer), I too thought it was related to the fuel formulation. I have noticed a drop in MPG in CT when they started going with the "oxygenated & ethanol" formula.

When I filled up in VA I did not see a sticker on the pump indicating "up to 10% ethanol" as it is on all the pumps here in CT. ....

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dkheckmanl
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 134 Middleton, ID
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2007-12-19          149440

Have had the same experience with ethanol in my vehicles. Hurts even more because I do a lot of my traveling selling flagpoles from January to April.

BTW K.W.S. what kind of truck did you end up getting? ....

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Ethanol another tax

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-12-19          149441

It's a Toyota Tacoma. It's been very reliable and has great performance but the build quality and ruggedness are lacking. They were probably much better when they were designed and built in Japan, but I have no real regrets. Still, when the 2009 VW TDI Jetta comes out may buy one of those as a daily driver and get an old beater truck to replace the Tacoma. Did you see the Popular Mechanics article on the VW? They claim 75mpg. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2007-12-19          149450

Ken, I can understand how your mileage would drop. Ethanol has approximately 2/3 the energy value of the typical gasoline only forumula. The more ethanol blended into gasoline, the more mileage will suffer. ....


Link:   The basic story on ethanol mileage and cost

 
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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2007-12-19          149451

I almost forgot to ask about the TDI Jetta. From what you read, does the VW TDI engine still have that dadgum timing belt that must be replace every 80,000 miles and last I hear the exhaust gas recirculation feature to reduce NOX emitions was making a huge mess in the intake manifolds. I almost bought one but was put off by the expensive maintenance requirements. I'll have to read up on the 2009 and see what if anything is new. ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2007-12-20          149469

Here in NY, E-10 has created issues in both the auto and marine industry. I won't get into the marine end of it except to say that now I drain my fuel tanks at the end of the season due to the possibility of phase separation.

The wife has a 2006 Outback and noticed a fuel economy drop of a mile or two. Normally she knocks off 29-30 MPG even with the corn fuel.

....

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kleinchris
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 269 Westminster, Texas
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2007-12-20          149471

Murf- refering to your point about getting more milage out of the good stuff, another way of looking at it would be this: If ethenol gets a driver 10% fewer miles per gallon, than instead of costing $3.00/gallon to go 25 miles, it now costs $3.30. (Which is probably a few cents more than the premium.)
This seems like it would make a pretty good story in Time or Newsweek- these magizines that are so good at informing the public of important things they need to know. They could run another story about the downsides of the new energy saving lightbulbs... but you guys know how I feel about that. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-12-20          149475

It has not hit stations here that I am aware of but those I have seen it at have been about 30 or so cents per gallon less. Has that changed or was it never lower in other areas?

On the premium mileage to lower rated gas, my wife's care does not get any better mileage with premium. Shocked me. So as I think Murf said, TEST it. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-12-20          149497

I'll fill up with Premium tonight to see how it does. I tried premium in the summer and didn't see any mileage benefit at all but maybe with the oxygenated fuel now it will make a difference.

Randy, good to see you back! I misspoke (mis-typed) on the VW. Popular Mechanics compared a European VW Polo TDI (not a Jetta) to a Prius. The VW had better performance, got 74.3 mpg vs. low 50s for the Prius, and actually had fewer emissions. The only thing I don't like about the technology is they are using the same method as Mercedes in their Bluetec diesel to reduce NOx. They inject Adblue into the exhaust stream which converts Nox to Nitrogen and water. So the Adblue tank has to be filled up occasionally. Not sure how much that would cost. Honda has a Catalytic style converter that works without Adblue. All in all things are really looking up for diesel technology, which makes a whole lot more sense to me than complex hybrids with toxic batteries.

I can't answer your question about timing belt or plugged EGR. A guy I work with has an older TDI, he cleans out his EGR every year or so and doesn't think it's a big deal. I used to drive VWs and changed a few timing belts on them. A pain, but not a showstopper for me. Still, I wish timing belts would go the way of the dodo too. ....

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