Go BottomBackhoe purchase decision
 | Brent
Join Date: Posts: 1 
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2001-11-22 33334
I am about to purchase a Kelley B750 3pt backhoe. Does anyone out there have any experience with this particular backhoe or any other Kelley backhoe? I believe Kelley makes this backhoe for Koyker (B15) and it also gets marketed as a Branson. It has been sitting on the dealer's lot for several months. According to the dealer is was parked with the stabalizers up but now one is down. Does this mean that there could be an issue with the hydraulics? Should I be concerned? Thanks in advance for your input.
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2001-11-23 33356
I have a Kelley 650. I think of it as a decent moderate priced machine. My use is project oriented, and such a hoe is good for me since I use it sporadically. I haven't has any problems in the 3-years I've had it. The stabilizers stay up, and I'd think it was a problem if they didn't. My hoe doesn't have a full 180-degree swing that some more expensive hoes have, but I haven't found that too limiting. My hoe is a 3ph-mount type, which I find convenient, but 3ph types may be harder on the tractor frame than a sub-frame mount. I believe the Kelley 3ph mount is a pretty good design, and I realize that I have to use it with due consideration.
I recognize that tractor hoes (3ph of sub-frame) aren't like dedicated hoes and shouldn't be used as if they are. The soil is very sandy here with few rocks. Even so, I take my time rather than get into 'power mode' and trying to beating up things with the hoe. My tractor has a hydraulic relief pressure of 1836 lbs., which also saves some wear and tear on the tractor. I think the Kelley specs are 2000-2200 lbs. ideal and 1500 lbs. minimum pressure.
I think that the tractor size should be considered carefully, especially if it's a 3ph mount. My tractor is a reasonably rugged Ford 1710 that around 2500 lbs. with loader etc., 24 hp and 8.1 gpm hydraulic flow (guess you know that you have to have a loader with a backhoe). I don't think I'd want to put a 7.5' hoe on my 1710 3ph. The extra foot is more leverage and more chance of damaging the tractor.
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| Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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2001-11-24 33385
If it was parked with the stabilizers up, it is bound to leak down faster when loaded. But the truth is that some leakdown is common in all but the most fortunate hydraulic systems. It is the "rate" that will tell you whether it is a problem. It has to bes either the cylinder or the spool valve, and cylinders are easier to deal with. Have you been able to isolate which it is? I am looking at a similar Kelley backhoe myself and am curious what tractor you are going to mount it on. ....
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| Brent
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2001-11-24 33390
Roger,
The backhoe is a new unit and I haven't seen it yet. It is on a distributors lot a couple of hours away from me. When I called to arrange a time to see the backhoe, the wharehouse manager told me that it had been mounted on a tractor this spring and when the tractor sold they unhooked the backhoe and parked it with the stabilizers up. He said that since then one stabilizer had "fallen down". I'm not sure how quickly it happened or if it was helped down by someone pushing the lever. I feel I have been quoted a very good price on this backhoe, but am concerned that if there is a problem, I may be on my own in dealing with the manufacturer. I guess this is the chance you take when you choose to go for the lowest price and not use a local dealer. Afterall, there may be nothing wrong with the unit at all. I plan to mount the backhoe on a JD4300. I am a little concerned about not having a subframe, but I am just going to be using it for light duty home-owner use (aka toy). I am not planning to did out any tree stumps or do anything too abusive. I called Kelley and they do not yet offer a subframe for the B750 for a JD4300. If I use it a few times and am concerned, I will probably either attempt to make my own subframe or consider purchasing either a Woods or Bush Hog subframe for my tactor and adapting it to fit the Kelley hoe. I have never used a backhoe on a compact tractor - only the old Case style TLB's. My nieghbor has a JD655 with a small 3pt. backhoe and he has accomplished a lot with a very small unit. He dug a small trench for me and since that day I have had backhoe fever. I mainly want to use the hoe for digging several drainage trenches, digging a footer for an outbuilding, digging trenches for water and power lines, and to have on-call for all the projects I'm sure to dream up once I have it. ....
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| Don M
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 120 myLocation
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2001-11-24 33393
If you know or can find out what hoe your neighbor has on the 655, I'd be interested to find out. I am thinking of building a cadplans one for my 755, in my spare time. Hahahaha, spare time, that's a good one. Anyway....
-Don M ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2001-11-25 33395
Brent: I've got a couple of comments about the 3ph mount. Mine uses a plate that bolts through drawbar and uses two U-bolts as well. It is important that the plate mounts within 1-inch of the drawbar support bracket. In my case, I was lucky that I could use the forward hole for the drawbar top-plate. Otherwise drilling a 1" hold in the drawbar would be required (a pain).
The plate provides mounts for two top-links that run to the hoe either side of the top-link mount. These top-links stabilize the hoe but also lock down the 3ph. They are also essential to keep the 3ph from accidentally going into lift when an operator is in the hoe seat. Properly installed, it is possible for the 3ph to go into lift while locked down. The relief valve can be heard, which something to listen for. It happened to me once but fortunately I caught it after a short time. As I said, I think the Kelley 3ph mount is a good design, but I also think it must be kept in proper adjustment to minimize stress on the 3ph and frame. I find that the mountings and top-link adjustments do change during operation--especially when the hoe is new. I check the mounts about every hour of operation, but now I've also have a 'feel' for when they're not right. I like the hoe fine, but I do find myself tinkering with it a bit.
My hoe sits idle during the winter. I don't think the stabilizers move even an inch over the winter. Possible explanations for the down stabilizer other than a faulty cylinder or spooling valve are; the hoe isn't fully charged with oil or the return line quick connector leaks and somebody pulled the stabilizer lever. Each could be checked out easily. If it's a new hoe, it should be under warranty, and the dealer should be able to check it out and repair as required before sale.
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| Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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2001-11-25 33400
I think the most abusive thing I've ever done with my backhoe was levering large rocks out of the ground....although I imagine that tree roots could also stress it. Damage to the hoe has included ripping a bucket and warping/flexing the boom far enough that some of the pivot pins sheared. All easily repaired with a welder and using the backhoe's own hydraulics plus some heavy chain to cause it to bend itself back into shape.
I agree with Tom that the most probable cause is that someone pulled the lever. And also with the general comments about the 3pt hitch setup. It does require constant tinkering, and a much better connection would be some sort of subframe that would stay mounted and out of the way. The fear of the lift arms actuating accidentally is very real. It happened to me once. They must be locked firmly. Still, my next backhoe will be a three point type for the convenience. ....
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| WIlliam
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 31 South Caralina
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2001-11-25 33401
Having a 4300, Deere offers two backhoe options (47/48) that are some what sub-frame mounted. Both of which can be removed in less than five minutes to allow use of the 3pt. It may cost a little more but as the saying goes you get what you pay for. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2001-11-26 33427
Yes, I think the sub-frame and 3ph mounts are trade-offs. The newer sub-frames mounts are much more convenient I hear, but probably still not as convenient as a 3ph. My 3ph requires some tinkering during use and is undoubtedly capable applying more stress to the tractor. Older sub-frame mounts took to time to mount the hoe, required that the lift arms were removed, interfered with the use of other implements and took a long time to remove. Some real negatives there. Trouble is that I imagine the new fancy sub-frame mounts are only available for new/pricey hoes that go on newer tractors. I don't have a new tractor, and I couldn't justify a pricey hoe for my sporadic project uses anyway. I still think the 3ph mount was the best choice for me. I also think I should get the model of my Kelley right--it's a B600. Every now and then I call it a 650, because of the 750 I guess and the fact that the max depth of my 600 is 6.5'. Of course, you can't actually dig anything at 6.5.' It has a 2' bottom at 6', which is the way hoes often are rated.
I hope Bill is reading this thread. Some of the comments are relevant to his questions. Hydraulic stabilizers are good to have; I adjust mine frequently. A 3ph lock down is essential (especially with a ROPS as Art mentioned and with draft control as Roger mentioned). I think it was Steve Carver who reported a death over two years ago; it probably was one of his customer's sons. The person was crushed between the hoe console and the ROPS when the lift raised.
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| Brent
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2001-11-28 33500
Don M,
I believe that my nieghbor's backhoe which he uses on a JD655 is an ARPS hoe. I don't know the model number, but it is about the size of a Kelley B600. His backhoe is several years old - at least 10 or 15 years. Hope that helps.
Brent ....
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| Don M
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 120 myLocation
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2001-11-28 33501
Brent, thanks for the description.
-Don M ....
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| Brent
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2001-11-28 33507
I purchased the Kelly B750 backhoe today. I can't wait to use it, but first I need to decide how to plumb the hydraulics to my JD4300. The backhoe manual leaves a lot to be desired in explaining the options. The manual says "If an open center tractor hydraulic system is utilized, attach, the backhoe valves pressure hose to the tractor pressure hydraulic oulet, and the backhoe valve return to the tractors hydraulic oil pump." Does this mean that I should install a third SCV with rear outlets and run the hoe off of them by securing the control lever in the open position? I believe the hoe is set up for an open center hydraulic system. My JD manual states that I have an open center system. I was planning to purchase the Power Beyond kit for my tractor, but it the way the manual is written it appears I have to change the plumbing of the Gresen six section valve to use Power Beyond. As you can tell, I don't have experience with hydraulics and am a little confused. There is also a special section in the backhoe manual on JD tractors which states "Purchase a Port Filter Cover (John Deere Part Number AT301970) from your dealer. Install it on your tractor. Attach the backhoe's pressure hose to the tractor quick coupler. Attach the backhoe's return hose to the port filter cover that you installed. Move the control lever on the tractor so that it starts a flow to the backhoe valve and secure it in the full open position." Is this for older JD tractors? It goes on to state that this is done to get a direct connection to the JD master pump in order to insure that there is oil in its sump at low rpm. I plan on calling the manufacturer tomorrow for more details, but any comments would be welcome. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2001-11-29 33512
Well, I did find the Kelley manuals a little obscure, but probably no more so than some of my explanations. The connection for my B600 to my loader SCV was described in the PB kit thread. The connection is fairly easy and safe if a 3rd control valve already exists. However, running the open centre flow through a control valve may sacrifice a bit of power and may erode valve parts prematurely.
A quick scan of my B600 manual seems to indicate that a open-centre power beyond hook up goes from the PB port on a PB SCV to the hoe inlet. The hoe outlet seems to go into a T-fitting in the SCV's low-pressure return line. Such a hook up would protect the hoe valve from potentially high-pressures in the PB line. However, the 3ph would not operate while the hoe is mounted. That may not be such a bad idea, because you don't really want the 3ph to lift while it is locked down. The only problem I can think of is that 3ph hoes have low ground clearances and they extend far past the rear of the hitch. It's fairly common to drag the bucket when going up a hill, and especially when loading or unloading from a trailer. During those times, it's very handy to be able to remove the two top-links used for stabilizers and raise the hoe with the 3ph. It looks like the Kelley hook up would require a shunt hose around the hoe to be connected in order to use the 3ph while the hoe is mounted. However, despite anything said, the best approach is to work with your dealer and Kelley tech support. Yep, the first few projects with a hoe are ‘trips,’ but I’d describe my reaction to later projects as just plain satisfying. Mick should have had a tractor, but then maybe the world would be minus a few songs. Hope you enjoy the hoe. ....
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