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Forums > Active Threads > General Tractor Discussions > Operating and Attachments

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Hettric
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 133 MA
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2009-08-03          164603


Have a JD 755 20 HP and am looking for a box scraper for minimum use in sandy soil and maintaining a regrind drive. How important is it to have it wider than the wheels? I may have a line on a used 4' box scraper, with my turf tires set narrow they are just over 4' wide. 54" would be just right but chances are not good for a used one.
Thanks

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2009-08-03          164604


The only problems I see not being wider than the tires is that you'll not be able to get along walls and fences close enough--unless you bias by adjustment the 3-pt's lower arms. To a lesser degree, biased or not you may end up driving with one side higher than the other as the wheels ride the windrow.

Given a choice wider is better for this application IMHO.

I use a King Kutter-brand 6' BB behind a 33 hp 4x4 with no problems. Traction and weight are key factors when using a BB. Without one or the other you'll just spin your wheels--literally and figuratively LOL. ....

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kthompson
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2009-08-03          164605


If you will only be using it for drive way with no sides walls or such to it you should be fine. I do agree with Earthwrks on all his comments including the traction ones. ....

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Hettric
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2009-08-03          164610


Thanks for the info. Is 5' out of the question?
....

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kthompson
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2009-08-03          164611


I really wish I knew more about the tractor you have. But is 5 foot too wide, as long as your lift works fine you probably can work with it. I have a 27 hp 4 wheel drive and I use a 7 foot rake and 6 foot blade with it. Have to operate with hand on lift as very much load for that width and it will spin and is moving normally loose dirt or roots in loose dirt.

I wish I knew if it were to heavy for the tractor or if you had weights on it and if your lift is a full cat 1 or not. Also if you are working a drive way on a slope you can pull more going down hill than up hill as gravity will help.

If it were me and there was need to work to the outside of rear tires rather have the four foot and not have so much issue with load.

Just wondering, will you also be using this for snow moving? ....

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Hettric
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2009-08-03          164612


Thanks, full cat 1 I believe. Don't think weight is a issue, rated at 785# 24" behind the "link ends". By the way, can you tell me just what point this is? Are the "links" what connect the lower arms to the hydraulic lift arms? Also my #70 loader has a 5' bucket.
Drive has slight hill at one point mostly flat. Won't be using with snow, have a 49" front mount blower. ....

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candoarms
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2009-08-03          164614


Hettric,

I'd go with the 4 foot Box Blade. You'll have all kinds of trouble pulling a 5-footer filled with soil. The 4-foot model will make your day so much more enjoyable when working with the Box Blade all day long.

For driveway maintenance, you'll find that 4-footer might actually be better, as you won't be scraping the crown off the top. Make a pass down each side of the driveway with the 4-footer, and that should about do it.

Joel ....

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DRankin
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2009-08-03          164615


I was faced with the same dilemma 4foot was too small and 6 foot too big.

Fortunately I found a used 54 inch box blade. Just right. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-08-03          164616


Hettric, my CUT is rated for something like 1,800 lift at the 3-pt. Like I said I use a 6' BB. There has been several times like when spreading a full BB of crushed stone that I haven't been able to lift the BB --but the front end sure came off the ground--and that's even with 120 lb. of suitcase weights. It also happens when grading wet clay and the box is full.

You have a FEL so you may have he issues I did--although it may just not lift period. Wet dirt or stone weighs about 100 lb. per sq. ft--PLUS the weight of the implement--probably about 400 lb. guesstimated. ....

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bvance
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2009-08-04          164617


Hettric,

As usual, you are getting a lot of good advice here.

You are probably already aware of all of this, but I have a 22 hp Kubota BX and it is considered a SCUT, Sub-Compact Utility Tractor. I am not familiar with your model JD, but I am assuming it is also a SCUT. The point is you need to be careful buying implements for your tractor. I'm sure you SCUT is a CAT 1 and that is not usually the issue. The problem with SCUT's is their lift height capacity. They have shorter lift arms and box blades made for SCUTS have lower height mold boards so when you lift the blade, it will clear most impediments. If you get a BB that is not specifically made for a SCUT, you will find that even fully lifted, it will drag when you go over pronounced bumps or dips. To be sure, I am not talking about lift capacity, but lift height restrictions.

This same issue applies to all implements you attach to your SCUT....be careful.

I have a 4' box blade and my 22hp SCUT handles it fine. Kubota specs a 54" BB for a 22 HP and I know Land Pride makes a model that will fit your SCUT. With my 48" Land Pride, I never bogged down while it was full of heavy clay and still scraping. If you need the extra width, go with the 54". I would also get a BB that scarifer teeth you can lower...very handy.

Good Luck,

Brian ....

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kthompson
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2009-08-04          164620


Brian did a good job in the lift height issue. That was why I was asking if "full" Cat 1 for I have heard the limited lift height referred to as limited Cat 1 but should have been clearer in my concern. Glad he pointed it out so well. I have a CUT that is suppose to have the full lift capacity and with plows it shows it's limited lift capacity in the height compared to a fuller size tractor. Plows are the only implement the height limit on my CUT shows up. ....

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hardwood
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2009-08-04          164623


I wasa going to suggest a five foot with either a front loader or some front weights, but had forgotten about the hitch situation, so better follow the others advice and see what will fit first. ....

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DRankin
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2009-08-04          164624


The 755 is a compact, not a sub-compact........ the picture shows how high the 3 point lifts. ....

Picture Link

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auerbach
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2009-08-04          164627


With the weight of the mower plus a heavy bucket-load plus your ag-tread fronts, you'll have no problem with the wider. As you've read, narrow and wide have their pros and cons. It's mainly with a snowblower that it's important for the implement to be wider than the vehicle track. ....

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bvance
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2009-08-04          164649


Thanks Mark for pointing out a 755 is not a SCUT but a CUT. As I indicated, I was not sure, but with your help, we now know lift heigth capacity is not an issue.

Hettric, If it were me, I would go for the 54" and I think you will find your CUT will handle it just fine.

Brian



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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2009-08-04          164650


DRankin, are those R-4's on the front and turfs (or as Kenny would say "trufs") on the rear?

Do you get any driveline bind-up in 4-wd? (mixing tire types and presumably sizes is a no-no so I thought)

LOL Maybe there should be disclaimer in the photo that says "for demonstration purposes only" or "don't do this at home" or "tires simulated".

I'm jis' sayin'... raght Ken-ny? LOL ....

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auerbach
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2009-08-04          164654


The tires don't look new, so I figured they likely work OK, but that tractor did not come out of the box that way, so to be safe, try to not run it in 4 unless the surface is slippery. ....

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bvance
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2009-08-05          164656


I'm sure Mark will comment on these tires as well, but he's an experienced tractor guy and knows what he's doing.

He has talked about why he has done what he has with these tires many times in the past and has good reasons why he has done this and gets very good results out of them. In fact, I think what he has done is rather creative and effective. I hope he comments on them and shares once again why he has done this.

Brian ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2009-08-05          164660


On the difference in tires on 4 wheel drive...thought the big point was size of tires, not thread type. Somewhere and no idea if TP or not someone posted how they used truck mud/snow tires on their front end due to I think price and had good results. ....

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auerbach
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2009-08-05          164665


The only factor is the ratio between front and back circumferances. But those fronts look like tractor tires, unless maybe off a military Jeep.

The rationale might be a smidge (and that's only a metric smidge) better traction without excessive turf damage. Or cost. I've not priced tires, but one Chinese tractor comes with ags -- or turfs for an extra $700. ....

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Hettric
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2009-08-05          164666


Back to the Box Blade, How far can you "offset" the 3PT?
Looking at my lower arms, currently both my sway turnbuckle-links are fully shortened to center the weight box. Maybe these are not the correct ones (too long?)as I could not "offset" without shortening one and lengthening the other.
One of the projects I am planning is to "cut" down my drive to add a layer of regrind. If I can't get the edge of the BB outside the wheel track this seems like a problem.
Thanks ....

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DRankin
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2009-08-05          164668


Not my tractor. Sorry. I guess I was in a big fat hurry (as usual) and forgot to mention I found the 755 picture on the Tractorhouse web page.

But I have replaced the tires on my 4115 in a similar fashion. I matched radial M&S truck tires on the rear with a set of low profile turfs of the front.

I matched the diameters using a formula I found on the Firestone AG tire web site.

When I first drove a tractor on my sandy hillside lot I found very quickly that the AG tires it came with were totally unusable.

I couldn't even get to the rear fence line in 4wd. AG tires are designed to penetrate the soil and "self-clean" displacing accumulated mud to the sides.

When you do that on sand you end up with a stationary tiller. The tires would just bury themselves and the tractor would not move, especially going uphill.

At the same time I noticed that I could drive my Toyota pick-up anywhere on the lot, usually in 2wd, and it just rode on top of the sand if I was careful with the throttle.

I had the same issues with the heavily lugged tires that came on the Kubota RTV. Useless. When I replaced them with all-season radials and drove in the same tracks it was a huge improvement.

Now I am contemplating the same fix for the Honda Big Red. The factory tires are just a bit too aggressive for this environment.



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kthompson
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2009-08-05          164675


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hettric | view 164666
Back to the Box Blade, How far can you "offset" the 3PT?Looking at my lower arms, currently both my sway turnbuckle-links are fully shortened to center the weight box. Maybe these are not the correct ones (too long?)as I could not "offset" without shortening one and lengthening the other.One of the projects I am planning is to "cut" down my drive to add a layer of regrind. If I can't get the edge of the BB outside the wheel track this seems like a problem.Thanks


You are correct on how you would shift the box blade. Do note if you shift a box blade like this it will put it to a slight angle to the tractor. Would doubt it would create any issue, migth make it little easier to cut the dirt.

As to being narrower than tires being an issue on cutting the drive down, possibly but the lift probably would drop enough the box blade would still reach the now lower grade. At same time would guess you will be doing more than just the width of the box blade so one tire would be on the now lower grade and the other on the higher grade possibly which may be a pain but still workable. Which would still happen with a blade wider than the tires.

Have you given any thought to a blade only and not a box blade? They make them that will offset. Depending on what you will be doing each has it advantage. Cutting a grade to me is much better with blade only set at an angle so it slices the dirt then a box blade but the box blade is better at any material in a stright line to fill holes or such. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-08-05          164681


On my CUT, I can bias it to one side by removing and resetting pins that go into adjustable sliding braces. This isn't a cure-all--go too far one way and you'll end up rubbing the tire. Some tractors have chains to keep the lower arms within the swing area between the tires. Some use stiff but thin adjustable metal bars (at Tractor Supply). ....

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bvance
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2009-08-05          164687


Hettric,

I'm still not sure what you are trying to do. Are you trying to put a crown in you road?

Are you trying to offset the blade to move dirt sequentially to the middle of the road or to the side of the road, thereby creating a crown?

It is the offsetting or angling strategy you are after, get a blade as opposed to a BB as was suggested. A blade is made to offset as well as to angle on a horizontal plane as well as to angle forward and backward...in other words it will move on 3 separate planes. A BB is not meant to do that. It was made to move material...taking off high places and filling low places, or just plain moving material from one place to another.

A blade is made to move material laterally. A BB was made to move material linearly or forward, not side to side.


Brian ....

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Hettric
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2009-08-05          164688


Perhaps I am thinking wrong but it seemed the scarifies would be great to loosen things up (and maybe breaking up some sod).
I have a drive to cut down and add a layer of regrind. To be honest there is no crown but it does purposely pitch to one side in one area to control the runoff direction. I have used this "unprepared" driveway for 25+ years. The regrind is to minimize "mud season", some parts of it have been done to great success.
I also have yet to replace the loam that was stripped from around my house site, I thought the Box Blade would help with spreading this.
I plan on doing some grading in a area that currently has grass, I want to strip the loam off first to replace later.
It seemed the Box blade, in addition to my loader, gave me the most "bang for the buck" for these projects, maybe I'm wrong.
Thanks ....

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bvance
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2009-08-05          164690


I'm sure you know this, but you will rarely find one implement that is perfect for several different jobs...that's why they make so many different tools.

With what you described, I would get a BB as it will do most of your described tasks very well, whereas a blade will not work well with most of your jobs.

Again, I would get a BB and I think you will find that you can work it around so it will do your driveway to an acceptable outcome. I have found that it is best to get a tool that will do 80% of what I need done, and the remaining 20%, I will somehow find a way to make it work.

You will also find that the scarifer teeth along with a BB will do an excellent job of loosening the soil to create a very nice prepared, smooth and level surface.

Watch farm sales around you. Often times you can find a beat up blade for next to nothing that will work on your driveway.

Good Luck,

Brian ....

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kthompson
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2009-08-06          164696


Hettic, totally agree with Brian above. ....

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Hettric
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2009-08-17          165004


As a follow up, I found a used 5' Land Pride box scraper and a 5' York rake with wheels and grader blade. I'll see how they work out. I have a area with a 3' embankment that I want to cut down to a gradual slope. There it grass on the top level now. What's the best way to deal with the sod, so I can strip off the loam, cut down the bank and replace the loam?
Thanks for the help ....

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hardwood
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2009-08-17          165013


Do you have any use for the sod if it can be harvested?
If not my best results have been to kill the sod with roundup before you start. It takes about ten days for the sod to completely die roots and all but it sure eliminates a lot of sod wads that are hard to deal with. The dead sod just kind of crumbles in with the soil and dissapears. Frank. ....

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Hettric
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2009-08-18          165051


Thanks Frank, that sounds like a great idea. Will it really take only 10 days to "break down" to the point were it will easily break up? ....

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hardwood
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2009-08-18          165053


Hettrik;
The warmer the weather the faster roundup will work, but ten days will do it even in cooler weather.
If the area can be mowed before you spray it helps to get rid of the excess dead material when you are working the soil down.
I've reshaped several field waterways using this method after fighting the sod wads on the first one or two.
Frank. ....

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Hettric
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2009-09-05          165486


As a follow up in case anyone is searching this info, the land pride 15-60 60" box scraper I found used has proved to be the perfect size for my JD 755. I am very happy I did not get the 48" that would have been narrower than my rear turfs. I have no problem pulling the 5' blade. ....

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bvance
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2009-09-05          165491


Hettric,

Thanks for the update and congrats on your purchases. I think you "done good". I'm glad you went with the bigger BB. These modern CUTS are amazing in their ability and power.

Glad you're happy!

Brian ....

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auerbach
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2009-09-13          165611


Have a look at the DuraGrader that advertises here. ....

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