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L 2850 Battery

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duke8444
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 71 Bowling Green, KY 42103
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2009-07-27          164430


I have a L2850 I bought about 3 years ago and the battery is goig. Does anyone have suggestions about what to replace it with. The tractor does have a lot of non use time over the year.

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L 2850 Battery

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-07-27          164433


AGM batteries have a lower self-discharge rate so they will hold a charge much longer. They also don't outgas and there's no acid to spill if you roll over (don't ask how I know). Popular brands are Optima and Odyssey. Optima used to be the best but supposedly they were bought out and the quality has significantly diminished. So the best battery would likely be an Odyssey - but it will take a bite out of your wallet. On the other hand deep discharge will destroy a conventional battery in a short period of time. A more economical approach would be to buy a conventional battery and a battery conditioning maintenance charger if you are willing to leave a charger connected during the off season. ....

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L 2850 Battery

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2009-07-28          164438


Take the compartment dimensions and terminal locations, along with a ruler, to Costco or Walmart, and get the biggest, strongest one that will fit.

Leave a trickle-charger or a smart charger on it when not in use. If the battery's hard to access, you could hard-wire a terminal from it to the outside, with a matching terminal on the charger. ....

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L 2850 Battery

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duke8444
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 71 Bowling Green, KY 42103
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2009-07-28          164451



Thanks for the information guys. I bought the tractor used in 2005 and it still has the battery in it. It looks like a regular car battery in the tractor. It is small and only uses about half the space allowed for the battery. I will try and get it into my shop tonight and pull it out. I like the suggestion of just taking into a place that sells batteries along with the measurements of the space the tractor has and see what they have to offer. The tractor sits inside all winter and keeping a charge on it will probably not be a problem. The battery is a pain to get to so I may look at the idea of having an external terminal for the charging. Could this external terminal also be use for jump starting if the need arose?
....

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L 2850 Battery

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5242 South Carolina
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2009-07-29          164474


I have two Kubotas and with each the battery lasted about 8 or 9 years. Hard to believe but they did and they looked about like car battery. One smaller tractor and one larger than yours. So makes me think you either happen to have a bad battery or it is the long discharge killing it then are you sure it is getting fully charged at any time? In those years mine would easy sit for 4 or so months during the winter undershed and fire in the spring. Are you sure there is nothing that is drawing power when it is off? ....

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L 2850 Battery

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2009-07-30          164477


Battery quality must be getting better, used to be that a five year oldd battery was sometning to brag about.
The battery in my JD 4310, (1999) gavwe up this summer, but our JD 345 mowers, (99 and 2000) still have original batteries.
I'm not a good caretaker of batteries, I do check the water level, the 4310 gets used for snow and I start the mowers a time or two in the winter to keep them limbered up but that's it. ....

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L 2850 Battery

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-07-30          164481


The self discharge rate of a flooded lead acid battery is about 20%/month so just sitting. When one of these goes completely dead it is damaged. Recharging it may get it going again but it won't be as strong and doing it a few times can kill the battery.

Deep cycle batteries can handle a lot more deep discharges at the expense of cranking power, so if the tractor is left sitting for a long time a deep cycle battery would be a better choice *but* you should up-size the battery to one that will deliver the CCA required by the tractor.

The self discharge rate of an AGM battery is about 3% a month so a fully charged one can easily go for months without any troubles. ....

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L 2850 Battery

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2009-07-30          164483


I'm sure kws knows more about batteries than me but I thought the loss was nearer 5% a month, and that the deep-discharge design is not ideal for engine-spinning.

The external terminals can be used for jump-starts (though this term can have various meanings) if the wiring isn't too small. You can also use them to easily check the battery voltage.

If the battery is in front of the rad it might be worth it to remove a front-hinged hood, not just for the in-and-out but for a thorough cleaning and maybe a terminal replacement and the attachment of the wires for the external terminals. Be careful with the positive.

You want a strong battery because though the engine is small, diesels are hard to spin, and they have to spin fast to fire. But easier said than done.

Newer is always better but choice of battery is a crap-shoot. Though only four firms make most all the batteries on the market, can't go by brand because in comparative tests there's never been one brand that surpassed the others in all sizes. Can't always believe the stated specs like CCAs because of lying and individual differences. Bigger is usually better but occasionally a smaller will outlast a bigger.

In 1993 I bought 12 Interstates for my various vehicles. All got proper care and use. Some have long since failed, others still load-test like new. ....

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L 2850 Battery

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-07-30          164484


Quote:
Originally Posted by auerbach | view 164483
I'm sure kws knows more about batteries than me but I thought the loss was nearer 5% a month, and that the deep-discharge design is not ideal for engine-spinning.


Self-discharge rate depends on battery construction. The more rugged a flooded cell lead acid battery is the faster it self discharges. Antimony is alloyed with lead to increase the mechanical strength of the plates but antimony also increases the self discharge rate. Numbers I've seen have ranged from 8-40%/month so I picked a number in between.

AGMs range up to 10% which is pretty much worst case.

An equivalently sized deep cycle will deliver less cranking amps. Plates on deep cycle batteries are thicker, which allows them to withstand deep discharge better, but it also reduces the ability of them to deliver current as fast. That's why for a deep cycle you'd have to go with a bigger battery that meets the CCA rating required for the machine. And a deep cycle that is large enough to deliver the CCA may not fit, so an AGM battery would be a good way to go in that case. ....

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L 2850 Battery

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2009-07-30          164495


KW;
Thanks for explaining the difference. I knew they were different for the reasons you describe, but I didn't know how they were different. Frank. ....

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L 2850 Battery

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duke8444
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 71 Bowling Green, KY 42103
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2009-07-31          164506



Thanks guys again for all your feed back on my battery question, now some updates from me.
When I put a meter on the battery terminals and the tractor running, the meter was showing 11.2-11.8 VDC. As I brought the RPM up, the voltage reading only improved a little to 11.8 -12.2. Not what I expected to see.

Once I removed the battery terminals from the circuit, the meter jumped to 12.8-13.2, so I knew the alternator by itself was ok. I assumed the dead battery may have not let the alternator totally do itsí job, I am not an electrical guy. Once I knew the charging circuit was ok, I pulled the battery and seen the battery in my tractor was an MF 27 F. The sticker on the battery said it was put into service in Aug. 2002, great life actually. I took it to an auto store and their test showed the battery was actually ok, however it needed to be charged. However, since I already had it out, my tractor is not a lift up hood year, and it was already 7 years old I bought a new 27 F battery.

When I got home, I installed the new battery and it fired right up, but I did a little more testing and seen I may be killing the battery every time I use the tractor. With the new battery installed and the tractor running at idle, the meter read 12.2-12.8. I brought the tractor speed up slowly and as it approached 1,500 RMP, the meter went to 13.8-14.2 VDC. This is not how I use the tractor.

I normally keep the tractor at idle, gear drive, and only raise the RPM as I am doing the work. Example, leveling graving/dirt with a box blade, I use the tractor at idle and then raise the RPM up with the foot throttle once I drop the blade. I do the same thing when I use the loader. Only when I bush hog do I run the RPM up on the tractor all the time. Which now I assume from the test I run, the battery is not even getting a charge most the time I use the tractor, especially when the tractor is under a load.

After reading all the other post, I probably should have bought a different battery, but I didnít. So I will probably look at how I am using the tractor and possibly make some changes or at the very least check the battery more frequently over the next few weeks.


....

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L 2850 Battery

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2009-07-31          164510


An alternator needs power to energize the rotor windings which creates an electromagnetic field. At low speeds the amount of power used to charge the windings exceeds the power generated. As engine speed increases there is a break-even point where the alternator output exceeds the input required to charge the windings and that break-even point is when the battery starts charging.

This is a characteristic of all alternators. Some alternators do better at low rpm than others but, interestingly enough, high output alternators usually are worse at low rpm than lower output ones.

You could screw around with pulleys and belts to increase alternator speed at idle but really a tractor diesel engine should be run at an rpm higher than idle anyway. The JD operators manual warns against that saying slow idle will waste fuel and cause carbon build-up. You might check your manual on this but the only time I ever use slow idle is for a few minutes before shutting off after a hard workout. Normally 1500 rpm is about as slow as I let it run. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5242 South Carolina
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2009-07-31          164514


You are not operating any lights are you? ....

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L 2850 Battery

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duke8444
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 71 Bowling Green, KY 42103
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2009-07-31          164517


Again guys, this site has a wealth of information.

I suspected the dead battery was causing the alt. not perform correctly and now I kind of understand why.

As far as the lights, I never use them.

Since I do have 8 forward speeds, I will bring the RPM up and use different gears. Honestly, since tractor and diesels are new to me, 5 years ago, I alway wondered if I was doing the right thing leaving the engine at idle. ....

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