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 | SamSpade
Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 41 Vermont 
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2008-06-13 154595
I am looking for a ~40 PTO HP tractor and decided on a JD 4320. I have quotes from two dealers. I gave both dealers the same list of several implements and options. Their retail numbers started way apart, but both of them had a "dealer discount" line and after that they were within 1% of each other.
How do I talk a dealer to get the price down?
Are there ways to find an average price?
Any other advice?
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 | kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon 
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2008-06-13 154597
A couple of years ago around here it was generally thought that it wasn't too hard to get 10% off list price and 20% was doable with a hungry dealer. With the soft economy and high gas prices dealers might be hungry. I'd start by asking for 20% off list - they can only say no and will probably counter offer. You can price out list for your exact configuration at JD's web site and work the numbers out for yourself. ....
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 | candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota 
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2008-06-13 154598
Sam Spade,
Tell both dealers exactly what you just told us.
After you explain the situation, it's very possible that one dealer will sweeten the deal by offering to throw in a free box blade, or some other implement for you. (Don't expect to receive a free finish mower, nor a tiller.) He may ask you if you'd like to choose between a set of front forks, rear forks, a box blade, or even a bale spike.
Should neither dealer offer to throw in a free implement as part of a package deal, you might ask if there is any way that you could receive a few spare fuel filters, an air filter, some extra engine oil, etc. Some people choose to ask for a free shop manual, along with a parts manual......both of which will come in very handy.
If you'd like to compare prices first, please visit tractorhouse.com.
Good luck, and have fun!
Joel ....
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| SamSpade
Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 41 Vermont
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2008-06-13 154600
Thanks for the suggestion. On JD.com I built my own to the dealer options for comparison. It's a little tough since I couldn't find all the impliments I have in the dealers quote and that is where some of the discount comes in.
The two dealer's "list" price are on either side of the website pricing by less than 1%. Their prices minus dealer discount are 10 and 11% below the Web pricing.
I would assume the Web pricing reflects MSRP, but not reality. The Dealers are 10% below that. Is that just an opening offer? I have never bought a new vehicle in my life and I am not a great negotiator to start with. So negotiating with a Dealer on a purchase of this magnitude is a little daunting. I just don't know how to approach them.
I had a used tractor through a dealer lined up, a decent price, but I don't think below average. I had a quote for the tractor plus another 50% in impliments. I offered 10% lower than the quote and he acted put off and hasn't come back with a counter offer. Did I low ball him and drive him away?
I guess since the quotes are so close together, I can try again with one of them and still have the other as a fall back. It just seems un american that I can't find a way to move them on the price even a little...
Thanks for the advice ....
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| candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-06-14 154603
SamSpade,
It really depends upon the dealer and his overall sales record.
If the guy sells tractors left and right, he really doesn't have to worry about one lost sale. Your bargaining power is worthless in this case.
It's very difficult to get a deal on a tractor when a dealership is surrounded by multi-million dollar clients.
On the other hand, if the dealer in question is having a rough go of things -- due to a poor local economy for example -- he may be willing to take a smaller profit, just to move something out of his inventory. Sometimes it pays to search for a dealer just a few miles outside of any major urban area. (You don't have to go very far to find one of these.)
You work hard for your money. You shouldn't be willing to just give it away. Your dealer should work just as hard to earn his living, as you do. If you feel that your dealer is sitting on his flat ass to collect a paycheck, take your business elsewhere. There are many dealerships who work very hard to please their customers......and plenty who don't.
Just remember whose money we're talking about here. You're the boss.
Joel ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2008-06-14 154604
Don't feel bad, there are lots of us lousy negotiators around. It's sort of easy to ask "You gave me a quote, what is your absolute bottom line price?". Then when they give it to you tell them you'll get back to them once you hear from the other guy. They might hem and haw a bit.
If you can't get them to budge on price ask them for extras, like "can you throw in the 50 and 200 hour servicing" or, like Joel said, ask them to throw in filters and fluids if you do the work yourself.
At the very least they need to give you a couple of hats :) ....
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 | auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2008-06-14 154610
You never have more power than just before you sign. And no power after you sign. ("Delivery? We didn't agree to do that. We charge $500, or it's in the lot and you can read the manual, get some some diesel somewhere, and drive it home yourself.") They deal with customers 20 times a day; you deal with the tractor store once or twice in a lifetime. They know more tricks than you, so you're wise to prepare yourself. But that's more than price.
A tractor's design life is in the range of 50 years. It will need routine servicing that owners do themselves, but if it seriously fails, it needs a house call or transport on a carrier to the dealer. And it will need replacement bits (like fuel filters) that won't be at your local store). So read the manual for what you will have to find for it over the next, say, five years, and include them in the package (but not fuel or oil).
You see the potential importance of a dealer who's reasonably close by, helpful, well stocked, and not about to close. Paying that dealer a few bucks more might be a good investment.
Also, a tractor can do only three things for you. You can park it out front and impress the neighbors. You can tow a stuck vehicle with it. And you can lie under it for shade. Everything else is done by various attachments. So decide everything you might want to use it for, what attachments you'll need, and include them in a package. ....
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| SamSpade
Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 41 Vermont
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2008-06-14 154613
I am following the advice to buy everything I can afford to in the way of implements that I think I might need.
I am also getting three hooks welded on the bucket and a thumb on the backhoe. Any other niceties I would want? Does anybody have a hook on a backhoe bucket? Or would it just get in the way of digging?
I am getting to tractor to start a small row crop / green house based farm stand, manage my 15 acres of pasture and forest and help me manage my small herd of goats. I am getting a box blade, tiller, pallet forks, backhoe and 400CX loader.
Are there any other attachements people are in love with? I also thought about a logging winch and sickle bar mower. I rejected the winch because of cost and because I won't need one for a couple of years (I have lots of easy to get at trees to cut for firewood). The sickle bar mower I decided is a little over kill for my three acres of field. I actually have a small walk behind sickle bar mower already. It takes me a whole day to mow the field, but I really only need to mow it once or twice a year. I also don't need a finish mower for similar reasons. I thought about a 4n1 bucket, but they are expensive and I think I would still want my heavy duty bucket. It is a good question whether I should be using a tiller or a bottom plow. I went with a tiller because I am going to be breaking sod initially and I won't have long lengths to work. But I don't have much experience to base this on. ....
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| candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-06-14 154615
SamSpade,
A set of rear remote hydraulic outlets shouldn't be overlooked.
If you are considering any rear mounted equipment that requires hydraulic cylinders, or motors -- you might want to have a rear remote hydraulic outlet, or even two.
There are hundreds of implements that use hydraulics in combination with the PTO drive -- such as hay balers, bat-wing mowers, ditch mowers, boom sprayers, snow blower chutes, and too many more to mention.
The cost to have these rear remote outlets installed on your new tractor might seem high to you (roughly $1200), but they'll make your tractor useful for most any chore imaginable. You can even use them to power hydraulic tampers, concrete screeds, fence post drivers.....anything with either a hydraulic motor, or a hydraulic cylinder.
You might be able to get the dealer to give you a price break on these, and the cost to have them installed will certainly pay off at trade-in time!
Joel ....
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| auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2008-06-14 154618
You could have a ring welded on the inside of the hoe bucket, toward the top when it's fully dumped. That would let you hook a chain when pulling something up, with no interference when digging and a negligable displacement of some of the load. As for the loader bucket, I have one central ring. No need for attachment places at the sides because you can hook onto the edges.
Going to use that rig for snow removal? If you'll remove the hoe winters, you'd want a rear blade. And maybe a set of tire chains. ....
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| SamSpade
Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 41 Vermont
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2008-06-14 154619
I have it down for a single rear remote. I didn't see an option for a second rear, I'll look again.
It would be nice to have a rear blade. I won't be doing a lot of snow removal with it, I just don't have a lot to do. But it would be nice to have for road maintenance... ....
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 | earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-06-15 154639
If it were a New Holland and you had a recent Ford employee paycheck stub, you get to literally see the factory invoice (not the dealer invoice which is hypothetical) and buy at the same price the dealer paid. The dealer makes his money by holding back 6% of the sale as profit. Wow! I saved something like $3500 on my '02 TC33D and about $8500 on one '03 skid steer and $13,000 on another '05. Technically, the dealer if he participates in the employee discount program, only has to give you a discount on "blue Agricultural equipment" and implements but not "yellow Construction equipment" which were not part of the workers union deals struck with Ford and New Holland when they split off in '96, is my understanding. ....
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 | kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2008-06-16 154650
It is easy to look at buying as a win-lose situation. It should not be. There is more than price to consider. One day service will come into play. If you are not comfortable to talk with the dealership or sales person as a friend, you are not at the right one. If all you care about is price then why not just use a bid request. Be warned that turns off many professional sales people. kt ....
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 | PaulChristenson
Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 83 Vermont
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2008-06-27 154860
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Quote:
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When you get to #3 customize Product...there are two tabs
Accessories is where you will find your additional Hydraulics options... ....
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| SamSpade
Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 41 Vermont
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2008-07-29 155690
Whelt,
I got my tractor. I ended up going a couple of rounds with the dealers. I spoke to them all, went back a second time and a third just to be sure. When I did the math, I got my tractor for about 8% off list. I was surprised at how close all the quotes were, but we are in the age of the internet and it's pretty easy for the dealers to stay in step with each other. None of the dealers really stood out on price, and they all seemed like decent knowledgeable guys, so it was pretty hard choosing one to buy from.
But I did sneak it in under the 0% financing, which was really what made it possible to us. ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2008-07-29 155692
Congratulations and don't look back. If someone else tells you later they got one for less it may mean they did not get something else that your's had or such. Could also be they are shooting you a line. Had a brother in law get upside with a copier salesman a few years ago cause he paid more than someone else did for same model copier from same salesman. He missed the fact his was new and the other used. kt ....
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| SamSpade
Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 41 Vermont
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2008-07-29 155706
I am surprisingly calm at this point, considering I signed a note with payments bigger than my house. You're right though, I don't have the energy to look back. Gotta keep moving forward. It's a little easier with MFWD, though... ....
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