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 | n219ct
Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 9 Essex, MA 
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2007-05-06 141847
Hi -- I have a JD 4320 and am looking for a new or used hydraulic dump wagon (2ton or more). Does anyone have any suggestions on a make / model / supplier?
Thanks!
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 | kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon 
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2007-05-06 141850
Northern sells a pretty inexpensive 2-ton dump trailer. It comes without a hydraulic cylinder but is equipped for a bolt-on installation. I bought their 1-ton version and it wasn't a big deal to get the hydraulics bolted up and working. It's not an industrial strength solution but it's a lot of trailer for the money. ....
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| n219ct
Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 9 Essex, MA
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2007-05-06 141851
Thanks -- do you know if it is a trailer or 'wagon'?
I am hoping to find a wagon so that I can leave it loaded without worrying about the stand.
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-05-06 141852
It's a dualie trailer with built in stand. Here's a link. You'd have to either hook it up to tractor hydraulics or install a self contained battery, pump and hydraulic system. If hooking to the tractor you'd have to get off the tractor to disconnect anyway so it doesn't seem that the stand would be a big deal. ....
Link: Dump trailer
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-05-07 141871
Three little points here.
First, a stand is not designed to carry much of a load, so the idea of a wagon is that the load stands on the front axle not the jack stand.
Second, Ken, the trailer at Northern you linked to is a tandem, not a dually.
Finally, if your intended use is off-road type stuff with fairly rugged terrain, you don't want a wagon, they have no suspension and don't take rough ground very well. On the other hand, a tandem trailer, especially those with a "walking beam" style of suspension is far superior to the other setups.
Best of luck ....
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 | beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan 
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2007-05-07 141877
Please see my post under b7800 rear hydraulics. We purchased the same dump trailer as Norhtern has, but went directly to the manufacturer. We still use the trailer, but did some pretty extensive reinforcing to the dump box carriage, and the rear pivot to get the trailer to perform properly fully loaded. In addition, the trailer comes with a slide in tail gate. We re-did the gate to be top hinged. A slide in gate is pretty much useless with a fully loaded trailer.
Other than that, it performs well. Murf's right about the suspension. The walking beam suspension works great in rough terain. ....
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| n219ct
Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 9 Essex, MA
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2007-05-07 141878
Thanks -- do you guys have any experience with '3pt hitch hauler' sold by northern? The website it attached.
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200315495_200315495&issearch=258000 ....
Link:
Click Here
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2007-05-07 141881
I built a similar unit to the Northern Tool dump box about 5 years ago and didn't find it very useful.
Two problems I discovered:
1) I had to remove rear ballast to use it.
2) It basically duplicated the function of the FEL, but not near as easy to use.
I found it far more useful to combine the rear ballast and a trailer hitch into one unit and pull a trailer.
BTW, Murf is right about wagon/running gear set-ups. I went through that phase too. They do not bend and twist on uneven ground unless you do some serious engineering on them.
I ended up disassembling the three point dump box for the parts and sold the wagon at a loss. ....
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 | yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2007-05-07 141883
I'm not too excited about that product either. Your 4320 has a 2500lb. rating at 24" behind the lift arms. The box is 6'wide x 4' deep and also has a 2500lb. rating. If you load something toward the rear you need to watch the load weight. At 270lbs. shipping weight you will also have serious shipping costs. I don't follow how this dumps unless if you have a hydraulic toplink.
Is there a reason you are looking for just a 2 ton capacity and a down sized unit. I think you would be better off with a full size single axle dump trailer that also could be pulled on the road giving more capabilities.
I'm also assuming you have a FEL. I use that more than anything for transporting stuff. I use my tandem dump for big stuff and a small 4x8 utility trailer with pivot for stuff in-between. ....
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| n219ct
Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 9 Essex, MA
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2007-05-07 141884
I agree -- I have a FEL and the 'hitch hauler' would not be worth it.
I am basically trying to decide between a dump 'wagon' or a dump trailer (single or tandem). I like the wagon because I can leave it loaded easily and I like the look of the wagons better (not really a good reason but it is true). However, there aren't many dump wagons available, they seem somewhat flimsy, and you have to add the hydraulics yourself. There are lots of dump trailers out there and they seem to come in all sizes and strengths, and they many have the hydraulics right on them with electric pumps.
Do you use the tractor's rear hydraulics to run your dump trailer or does the trailer have a 12v pump? Did you set up a standard electrical hookup on your tractor so that you can plug the trailer in or do you just run the 12v pump off a battery and charge it?
Thanks. ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2007-05-07 141886
We use the tractor hydraulics to run the dump.
One thing to think about. If you are loading the trailer/wagon with the tractor FEL, then pulling the trailer/wagon to where you are dumping, there is a lot of fussing around hooking up the trailer every time you get it filled. Especially of you are plugging and un-plugging the hydraulics at the same time.
The trailer sits fine on the tongue jack, even full. You don't need the wagon to let it sit full. Backing up and spotting a wagon is a lot trickier than a trailer. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-05-07 141887
The 3pth dump box is not a new idea, it was for many years the 'poor mans FEL' for those with a tight budget and a small tractor, a Ford 8N, 9N, Jubilee, a Farmall, etc., or that class of machine.
They dump by means of a very simple concept, gravity. The frame that comes back horizontally from the 3pth that the box itself sits on, attaches to the box by hinges, those hinges are located ahead of the center point of the box, usually about 1/3rd of the way back, so IN THEORY, the load behind the hinge point weighs more, and when you release the catch (via a rope to the operators seat) the box tips over and dumps.
However, notice I said "in theory", in practice, the 3pth is of unequal geometry, so when the box is level at ground level, as you lift it, it tips up at the rear because the toplink is shorter than the lift arms. You usually don't have to lift very high before the load is shifted far enough ahead that it no longer dumps by gravity. That means you have to lower the box to the ground, pull the lever to release it, then lift the 3pth. This means you cannot stack material in a pile.
The other problem with those Northern units is they have a mesh floor, if all you are carrying is some firewood, they work fine, but dirt or small stone goes right through.
The other issue with them is loading them. A wagon or trailer can be unhitched and loaded with the FEL, you don't want to do that with a 3pth mounted box.
If you have lots of space to dump, and the position is not critical, there are plans around for using an old differential out of a vehicle for the axle, and a drive system such that when it's engaged, and pulled forward, the spinning yoke turns a big Acme screw threaded rod which tips the box up. When completely up and empty you turn 90° and back up till the box is down and then disengage the mechanism again.
If you get a farm-style dump cart, one heavy axle located at the very rear, and a hydraulic dump box, it is very easy to put a stout jack stand at each front corner and then lift & lower it using the 3pth.
Best of luck. ....
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| yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2007-05-07 141897
If you have a metal shop and are handy, you can make the dump trailer into a dump wagon. Think I've just came up with a new product idea!!! What do you guys think? Is somebody doing this already?
If you make up a rigid front axle with a pair of wheels and a tongue and place a ball at the center of the correct height so the trailer's tongue is level, you can couple your trailer to it at will just like hooking up to your truck. The tongue needs to be rigid side to side to pivot the entire tire and axle assembly when turning but will also need to be rigid up and down so the wheels don't slide out or rock out from underneath.
Instead of a typical clevis on a wagon tongue connection, you will also need a ball connection so that when going up and down over hills and valleys it will float. On your tractor I'd recommend the Bad River hitch adapter to connect the wagon tongue to. You will also need to use the safety chain feature that is exclusive to this design so your 3 point hitch doesn't move up under a negative tonque weight condition. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-05-07 141899
I'm pretty sure you lost me on the description, but it sounds like a wagon, but with castor wheels at the front.
If that's the case it won't last long on rough ground.
There used to be a company that made wagons that had a center pivot on the front axle like a tractors front axle does. It was better, but still far from ideal.
Nobody has been able to beat the walking beam axle design for robust construction and terrain following, they even use them in forestry operations hauling many tons of logs out of the forest.
You have to be VERY cautious using anything 3pth mounted for pulling a trailer. If the load gets too great, or it hangs up on something it can easily roll the tractor over.
Best of luck.
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-05-07 141916
The hydraulics on my dump trailer run off the rear tractor outlets. If I had to load it with the FEL it would be a pain to constantly connect and remove but mostly it's used with a chipper. The chipper shoots the chips right into the trailer and then I haul and dump. We often use it to haul other stuff, too, but those loads are loaded manually (like when splitting logs). ....
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| n219ct
Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 9 Essex, MA
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2007-05-07 141919
Murf,
Do most tandem trailers come with the walking beam (like the Bri - Mar dump trailers? or is it something that I have to specifically look for?
Thanks
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2007-05-08 141927
if you want a four wheel wagon watch the farm consignment auctions. Quite often you can pick up a used flare box on a conventional four wheel wagon gear complete with a hiost for a hunderd bucks or less. I've got several around that I use for every thing from a dump wagon to lumber storage, kind of a lumber rack on wheels that cost basicly nothing compared to buying something or building something new. Best of luck. Frank. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-05-08 141928
Dump trailers that are designed for "over the road" use, i.e. pull them on the highway with your truck, are NEVER built with a walking beam style of construction.
A walking beam axle setup is strictly for off-road use, it has no suspension, like your tractor it depends on tire flex for shock absorbing, but allows a far wider range of motion in each wheel than does a set of leaf springs like a highway trailer has.
A walking beam is basically one large axle, except at each and is a long bar (the walking beam) that runs horizontally fore & aft, this bar is free to pivot around the axle like a wheel would, at each end of the walking beam is a hub rigidly mounted to the beam and a tire on the hub. The geometry is such that the beam can swivel to allow each tire to remain in contact with the ground regardless of the changes in ground level. The beam usually has a range of motion such that each end can move better than a foot up or down from level. This allows for the wheels on one side to be up to two feet different in position and still both taking weight, that's a pretty steep slope considering the wheels are only a few feet apart.
If you are handy, or have access to someone with a welder, you can make one from readily available parts for not much money. No complicated engineering or other skills required.
Best of luck.
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 | kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-05-08 141931
Murf, there is a local company who became famous for their trailers built with that design. They were built to tilt and were for on the road. Mostly used to haul small farm tractors and such. They quit a few years ago with that design. Could have been legal or DOT issue. One thing about that design, if you put brakes on them, be sure it is the rear wheel. I have pulled more than one of a few miles.kt ....
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| mrl4030
Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1 Mantorville MN
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2007-05-24 142416
I know this is more than what you are looking for but I have a PJ 14000GVW dump trailer, 96" deck over dump, 8x14, drop down sides, loading ramps store underneath, D hooks inside on walls, powdercoat finish. I looked at many other brand dump trailers this is the best made dump trailer I could find. Hauls my JD4100 with 410 loader very well. I have used it to haul about 300 tons of fill so far. I could not be happier with this setup. Face hurts from smiling, trying to pretent this is work.
http://www.pjtrailers.com/trailers.cfm#Dumps ....
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 | Blueman
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 243 Washington, PA
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2007-05-30 142612
I have a Pronovost P505 dump trailer. It is rated at 5000# gvwr, with a tandem axle, off road turf style tires. Have been very happy with it. ....
Link: Pronovost Dump Trailers
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