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 | ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 762 Kingston, NY 
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2006-08-17 133423
Both my tractor and boat ran out of juice not long ago. We have these cheap $50 jump starters in each car and on the boat. The jump starter barely started the boat and did NOT start the JD4310 (SP-22NF, 390CCA, 490CA). I notice that these cheap $50 jump starters are about 750AMP, 12AH. Would a jump starter for about $130 (1700 peak, 22AH) do the job or do you have to spend $230 (2000, 34AH) to get the engine to crank at a reasonable speed? I would like to purchase one that I can use for the tractor AND the boat (305 ci gas engine).
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 | yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan 
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2006-08-17 133425
I carry one of those cheapie jump starters with me all the time. Most of the time they work. I use the light and air compressor often as well. If you are jumping a battery that is totally dead with some bad cells, it probably won't do it. Most diesel's require alot of cranking power don't think they are the solution.
A nice pair of long jumper cables are always handy if you have a car or truck nearby.
With all my other stuff laying around, I usually steal the battery from my dump trailer which can be removed by loosening 2 wing nuts. Same thing goes for my boat, I can steal the battery from my electric trolling motor.
For the price of a new battery ($70-80.00) you can afford to have one laying around. You can make a box to store it in.
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| ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2006-08-17 133434
Thanks Yooper - I just was looking for something more convenient than carrying an extra battery around for boating. In the past I had 2 batterys with a switch and isolator on a larger boat, but this one isn't worth having that kind of setup. ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada 
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2006-08-18 133448
I learned talking to a battery expert some years back that batteries are far more complex than we give them credit for being.
For instance, a "dead" battery, one so flat the motor won't crank, and a booster pack so small it won't crank the engine, will do the job *if* you put the booster pack on the dead battery for 20 or 30 minutes and let it sit. The dead battery and the booster try to equalize and the end result is that the dead battery gets brought back up far enough that it actually will now crank the engine, together with the booster pack it is usually enough to start the engine.
It seems just about anything will do it. He was telling me that in fact you could likely resurect a car battery with little more than a meter to monitor progress and 10 D cell batteries. The batteries, wired in series, would produce 15 volts and bring the dead car battery a long way back up.
He also stated, that in most cases, both battery packs and booster cables are ineffective, not because of the lack of source power, but because the wire itself was inadequate and limited current flow.
I made, on his recommendation, a couple sets of booster cables using heavy welding cable. What a difference!! Half the price of a "good" set from the store, and 10 times the cranking power.
Best of luck. ....
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 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2006-08-18 133452
Murf,
If us guys were self starters, the wife wouldn't have to be such a crank! ;O) ....
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 | bloggins
Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 104 Kingston, Ontario 
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2006-08-18 133467
OK I've got to add my 2 cents:
1. Booster cables and their effectiveness are all about the gauge of the wire. Those mini cables that fold into a carry pouch are good for boosting motorcycles, not diesels in the winter;
2. Careful using a trolling motor battery as they are deep cycle construction and not designed to send a massive surge of current like starting batteries. They may do the job but you will shorten the life, if not damage the cells;
3. Dead batteries need to be charged slowly (max 10 amps, preferably initially 2 amps, then 10 amps later), so that the plate material doesn't separate and that the electrolyte doesn't boil off prematurely.
4. Ventilate when charging! A lot of hydrogen gas is given off, it's corrosive too.
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 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2006-08-18 133469
Bloggins: My understanding of the deep cycle contruction is larger mud trays a the bottom and heavier plates. Often they used a larger ridges on the battery separator to add acid between the plates. If you discharge rapidly you can expand the paste rapidly and as there is generally less pressure on the plates there can be a problem with flaking of the oxide. There is a little more resistance in each cell and slightly more heating, but a few starts are not really a problem.
My impression was only if you took it down rapidly to zero, like trying to start for a number of minutes it would be a problem.
This is only for the flooded Pb acid batteries.
I am not aware of any problems with the AGM valve regulated Pb acid (VRLA)or the gell. The batteries in the Jump starter are generally VRLA. ....
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| ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2006-08-19 133474
I went to Sears yesterday and checked out the more powerful jump starters. I was surprised at how much larger they were than the cheapy $50 mini-mites. I knew they were heavier - but didn't know about the size. We only have so much room on the boat. This makes me think Yooper is right - if I want more power just carry an extra battery around. Or as Murf says, maybe the cheapy mini-mite is good enough - it saved me once.
I have been on one web site, I think West Marine, where you can purchase a battery that doubles as a deep cycle and starting battery. I would definitely consider one of those in place of the dedicated boat battery I use now. ....
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