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wingwiper
Join Date: Jun 2004
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2006-05-04          128877


Federal Judge Orders Removal of San Diego Hilltop Vets' Cross

Thursday, May 04, 2006
AN DIEGO — After a 17-year legal battle between the city and a self-described atheist, a judge has ordered San Diego officials to remove a giant cross from a hilltop park.
The 29-foot-high cross was dedicated as a memorial to Korean War veterans in 1954 on a hilltop that towers over seaside La Jolla.
Philip Paulson, an atheist and Vietnam veteran, has been challenging its placement on city-owned parkland since 1989. He declined comment on the ruling Wednesday, but his attorney, James McElroy, said he hoped city officials would finally back down.
U.S. District Judge Gordon Thompson Jr. gave the city 90 days to comply with a 1991 injunction forbidding the cross on public property or start paying $5,000 a day in fines.
"It is now time, and perhaps long overdue," the judge wrote.
Defying the order is something cash-strapped San Diego can ill afford. Its pension fund is more than $1 billion in debt, the federal government is investigating, and there has been talk of bankruptcy.
Still, Mayor Jerry Sanders said he would ask the city attorney to appeal.

The city has tried to sell the half-acre beneath the cross to a nonprofit association that maintains the surrounding memorial walls. But federal judges have repeatedly blocked the sale, saying the transactions were designed to favor a buyer who would keep the cross in place. The U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear the city's appeal in 2003.
A city-sponsored referendum asking permission from residents to sell the property failed in 2004. The next year, 75 percent of the voters approved a referendum to transfer the land to the federal government, but a Superior Court judge ruled that measure to be an "unconstitutional aid to religion." The ruling has been appealed.




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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2006-05-04          128881


WW,

Sad.

If it was for illegals or gays the court would say we must keep the Cross. ....


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SG8NUC
Join Date: Jan 2006
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2006-05-04          128886


It think Queers is the correct term. ....


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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2006-05-04          128887


There is definately a special place in hell for liberal filth like this judge. ....


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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2006-05-05          128905


I worked in San Diego last year. The cross was in the news all the time. The city is rather conservative for California as you can tell the city tried everything they could to keep the cross, by transfering the land etc. The judge has blocked every move. It is funny as there is a huge cross on a hill in TJ that is visible from San Diego area, on a clear day. ....


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DenisS
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 367 NJ
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2006-05-05          128910


To paraphrase Dr. Savage - "atheism is a mental disorder"

Does anyone know if I can make it into a bumper sticker? ....


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wingwiper
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 676
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2006-05-05          128919


I went to the wed site for this Judge's Court, he chicken shit ass doesn't have an email listing.
I merely typed inhis name and position at Google.
If I were the City, I would leave it up and tell him to try and collect.
A friggin Memorial been there since 1954. Can you beleive this crap.
Seperate Church from State as faras I can read in the Consitution does not refer to this type of thing. I want to send this jerk an email, I will have to write a regular letter and mail it.

....


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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2006-05-05          128920


horse farmer,

I would think you would be legal to print bumper stiker with that on it. If anyone hollers, call the ACLU. Or how about that judge.

I really wonder when a person like that faces a real problem who they call on? Oh Judge, Oh ACLU? I have never heard of either of those used in an emergency room or the battle field.
....


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moparmudder
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 15 New berry Fl
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2006-05-05          128937


America was founded by God and Christains has been a Christain nation untill communist liberals DEmocrats started unloading their crap on us ,anti normal agenda distroying everything that this country stood for.
the worst part is that we allow it istead of running them out of the country!but islam a hate religeon that all terroists belive is considerded a peace ful religeon thats
just crap ....


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wingwiper
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 676
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2006-05-06          128948


Mopar

Do as I did send letters to these fools, expressing Exactly how you feel. Or as i had to do with this Thompson Judge, call the court house.
Has anyone noticed that ole rep Kennedy is going to rehab for pretty much the same thing as Limbaugh, where is the Hoorah? I mean I have heard Limbaugh and his prescription drug thing now for 2 years and the Left has had a field day, now there seems to be nothingbut silence with Kennedy.
Bad if you are a Talk Show Host, Ok if you are a democrat Representative with influential relations.... Love it. More good ole double standards.. ....


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moparmudder
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 15 New berry Fl
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2006-05-06          128951


the problem with lawmakers new laws and rulings being passed now is (my thery)they were a bunch of stoner hippies back in the day!same with news people probly a bunch of hippies!atleast you justify their thought process! ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2006-05-12          129284


News flash, in most cemetaries crosses (along with all sorts of other things) have not been allowed for some time now, never mind banned in the future!!

It was the not some whacked-out Liberal Judge that banned them either, it was a far more insiudious threat ... greed.

Most cemetaries are "for profit" ventures, and believe me when I tell you, VERY profitable they are indeed!!!

So much so that I have been hired twice now to convert golf courses into cemetaries, and I couldn't tell you the number of parcels of vacant land, owned by the owners of golf courses and others, bought as an investment, I have turned into cemetaries because there was more money to be made that way than by any other (legal) use of that land.

So, why ban crosses? Simple, if there are no readily distinguishable signs of anything, then nobody will see anything they don't like.

If you don't belive me, just call around to some of the cemetetaries in your area, most now have a "flat marker only" policy in effect, in other words the grave marker must be flush with the ground, not rising above it at all. This also means they save money in maintenance costs since it's easier to cut the grass, and they don't have to worry about resetting stones that are leaning or toppled over, after all, you can't charge dead people anything can you?

Just to give you an idea of just how much $$$ is involved here, an average cemetary has about 1,000 graves per acre, and prices today range from about $1,000 (good luck finding one) to as much as $5,000+++ (for premium places in big cities) and seem to average about $2,500 in most places.

So, 1,000 sites x $2,500 / site = $2,500,000 per acre, fully developed and sold, a 100 acre cemetary could generate (from sales of plots alone) $2.5 BILLION.

That BTW, does not include income from the sales of markers, hosting funerals, or performing cremations, whcih could in theory triple that income.....

Sad but true folks.

Best of luck. ....


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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2006-05-13          129315


Murf No monument cemetaries would be good for golfing just a errant bounce every now and then.

Maybe golfers would wanna b burried there.

You could switch them back and forth forever... ....


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wingwiper
Join Date: Jun 2004
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2006-05-14          129327


Arlinton Cementary has Thousands and Thousands and Thousands of CROSSES as does MOST if not ALL Military Cementaries.
I remember a lot of Crosses in the Military Cmentaries in Hawaii, I would think many were on STATE PROPERTY, mostly in Hawaii.
I put a Flag on my Mom's Grave and it was taken away. She has a Grass marker and and Large Headstone. I am NOT allowed to leave Flowers on the ground but can attach to the head stone. ....


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