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 | rpelleschi
Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 56 Spotsylvania, Va 
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2004-12-08 101832
Gentlemen, I will be attempting to put in a gravel road approx 400ft long. I have went back through the posts and tried to get some info, and have asked a few questions. I understand the concept of a crown, but I was looking for some specifics. I am guessing that you cut the crown into the earth as oppossed to making the center of the road higher with gravel. Is this correct? Also if so how high do you leave the center in relation to the sides, and whats the best way to get that shape? I have a JD 4400 with fel. I'm going to buy a 6' box scraper, and I have access to a Cat 941 track loader. Once again fellows any help would be greatly appreciated. You guys have been great. Thanks
Randy
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 | beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan 
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2004-12-08 101837
I cut the crown in the ground first, then crowned the gravel. If you are going to final grade with a box blade, like I do, I would recommend a hydraulic tilt for the 3-point. It does a great job of preparing and maintaining the crown on the road or driveway. I cut about 4" crown in my road, at 12 feet wide. Seems to be about right to drain the road and keep the pot-holes from forming. Start at the perimeter, and work towards the center of the road.
Look into placing a fabric under the gravel if you are building over clay or cohesive soils. The right fabric will keep your gravel from dissappearing into the subgrade. If you have clay or loam, you may also want to consider rolling in about 1 foot of limestone or crushed concrete before your finish grade of gravel. Put down the limestone, roll it in tight, fabric, then the gravel. The finish gravel should have be a binder mix, I have used either a clay/gravel mix or a limestone mix (21AA-crush). You will have a good firm road that can stand up to and shed water really well. ....
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| rpelleschi
Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 56 Spotsylvania, Va
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2004-12-09 101929
beagle, I want to make sure I get this right. I take off the topsoil to get to the clay underneath to a width of twelve feet. Once there start with the box blade, which is the same thing as a box scraper right? Do you pull the dirt from the edge of the road into the center, or try to cut pararlel with the road at an angle? If so how do you angle the box? Thanks ....
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 | greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2004-12-09 101931
Seems to me it'd be less work to create the crown as you cut/scrape with the box blade, than it would be to reconstruct a crown after leveling. Hopefully at least one of your lower lift arm links (the vertical ones) is adjustable. That's where you put some horizontal tilt into the box. That permits you to cut/scrape with one side of the box a few inches higher than the other. If you always keep the high side towards the center, what's left behind will form the crown.
//greg// ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-12-09 101937
Cut the crown in the subgrade before adding the gravel. This will keep the road surface uniform.
Tilt the box blade to cut the crown. Tip the outside edge down and start at the perimeter of the road. The box will shed soil to the inside to start forming the crown. If you are using a rear grader blade, tilt the outside edge down and angle towards the ceneter of the road to start building up the crown.
Hope that answers your questions. ....
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| rpelleschi
Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 56 Spotsylvania, Va
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2004-12-09 101939
very good info thanks guys. What would be the preferred implement you would use to cut for the crown, and is what you guys are calling a "box blade" the same as a box scaper? ....
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| greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2004-12-09 101944
Except for construction scrapers that scoop/dump, box scraper and box blade are generally interchangeable terms. Perhaps you're confusing one with a rear (grader) blade. See
http://www.deere.com/en_US/ProductCatalog/FT/category/FT_LANDSCAPE.html and http://www.deere.com/en_US/ProductCatalog/FR/category/FR_SCRAPER.html for clarification
//greg// ....
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| rpelleschi
Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 56 Spotsylvania, Va
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2004-12-10 102039
Thanks for the help ....
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 | tomrscott
Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 96 Newberg, Oregon
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2004-12-25 102912
I had been expecting to use a box blade for this same task, but had a real experienced tractor guy tell me the other day that I ought to use a rear blade with tilt and swivel. I've seen these with both manual and hyd. tilt. ....
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| tomrscott
Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 96 Newberg, Oregon
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2004-12-25 102913
So what is the best way to get tilt in your 3p? Do you get an accessory hyd cyl? Do you have to take a hyd line from the FEL, or can you easily add an accessory hyd line? I've been kind of thinking of getting a tiltable rear blade instead of, or in addition to a box blade. Manual tilting may not be too big a hassle, given that you want to get a consistent angle anyway. ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa 
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2004-12-25 102920
tomrscott; The answer to most of your questions is whethwer you are now just constructing the road out of loose materal that a common rear blade will grab into and carry soil with it or if you're trying to take the crown off an older compacted road. Either impliment will work long as you have loose soil or fill to work with. If it's a compacted road bed the three pt. blade won't do much, you need a box scraper with scarifier teeth to tear loose the soil before it can be moved. I don't have a Cat. 1 three point blade for the CUT, but I do have a real heavy Land Pride rear blade for a 200 HP. farm tractor and even tho it can be angled and tilted from the cab it would have a tough time tearing up a compacted roadbed Hope this helps. Frank. ....
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| tomrscott
Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 96 Newberg, Oregon
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2004-12-25 102923
The drive is an existing road bed that was last groomed about five years ago with only very crude dragging since then.
So maybe the real deal would be a good heavy box blade with adjustable scarifier teeth, and a "top n tilt" option to be able to shape the crown and ditches.
The box blade I am looking at is a Frontier 65" that weighs about 537 lbs. I am quite sure it will dig in just fine. Then the question is whether the rear blade offers any benefit or if the box blade alone will do the job?
Thanks for the help! I finally went ahead and registered for a premium membership because the info has been so worthwhile. Thanks! ....
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| rpelleschi
Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 56 Spotsylvania, Va
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2004-12-26 102943
Does anyone make a Box Scraper with a top and tilt option? I have not seen one, but that would be just the ticket for putting a crown on my new road. ....
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| brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-12-27 103021
In hindsight I should of paid the money for the T&T right off the bat. Now that I have the hand crank and not the T&T I am learning to live with it. Eventually I will get one though I am sure but right now there are too many toys to still buy and not enough birthdays left in my life to get em all. My pics 1 and 2 are of my drive. Although it may look like too much crown and a lip on the edges it was constructed that way. I am on a slope and get massive water run from the adjoining woods. The compound angle of the terrain brings most water to the dive. Since I am of the cheap era and the middle does not get any traffic (one lane road) I am experimenting. Slowly I am building up my crushed road gravel supply and lifting the grade. Eventually I will have the gravel over the top of the lip and a nice drainage ditch along the side with 2 culverts to direct water under roadway in strategic spots. I have a water retention pond at the bottom and a field further down to let spring run off out. So far the dive has done exactly what I have wanted it to and is holding up excellent. I have never had the water run off as well as it is. I also am looking forward to seeing how it holds up thru the winter/spring thaw/freeze. The less water in the ground driveway I am hoping will produce less heaving.
By no means am I even close to "expert" status and many guys here have the knowlege to do it right. The one thing I can say is that in different locations you may have to employ a slightly different technic to get what you want.
When I built this drive, in one location I had a quagmar effect for about a 100' lenth. I had a cement truck burried to the max. I needed to get a quad track case tractor in to get him out. After this event I had a dozor scrape out all the muck and dig her down to about 3 feet deep. I have a abundance of field stone and picked a whole pile (75 years of picking from a field) and layed all the rocks in the roadway. I have about a 2 to 2 1/2 foot base of field stone. (That also is the reason I can only go so deep with the foundation of the drive). My driveway in that low spot (or at the bottom of the ridge) will never move again and I will never lose anouther vehical there!) Get the box scraper and have some fun ....
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| rpelleschi
Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 56 Spotsylvania, Va
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2004-12-27 103037
Could I use a Box Scraper to take off the top soil and get down to the clay for a 400ft drive, or would that be way too much work? Should I get a CAT in to do the majority of the work? ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2004-12-27 103047
That depends on lots of factors. How much time do you have. Do you have an alternate drive to use. How deep is the topsoil. Where do you want the topsoil to end up when you're done? Just for something to use as a guide line 400 ft. X 12ft. wide X 1.5 ft. deep will equal about 20-25 tandems of soil, that sounds like a lot of dirt, but last summer I did about the same thing as you're talking about over about a 10 day part time span with the 4410/430FEL/box scraper with scarifier teeth. Allways start at the lower end of a drive doing such a thing as a rainy spell can turn you're project into a mudhole unless you're working you're way up the hill so the water drains away form where you're working. I'd pull three or four boxes of soil loose then just back over them and use the FEL to carry it out the end where I stockpiled it. Frank. ....
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| rpelleschi
Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 56 Spotsylvania, Va
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2004-12-31 103221
Thanks for all the advice hardwood. I've been working everyday the past few weeks on my property, but cant see anyway around getting some heavy equipment down there. It would only take a day or two and I could finish it up with my 4400..... Happy New year to all.
Randy ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2004-12-31 103224
rpellschi; Thanks for the response, yes you'll likely have plenty of finish up work left after the heavy equipment leaves. Seems like I can allways find something to keep the 4410 busy. Enjoy the New Year. Frank. ....
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 | MIFarmin
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 34 Michigan
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2004-12-31 103230
That is what I use my JD4310 for, touch up. It will grade smooth what the dozer leaves a mess. All you need to do is look at your tractor parked next to a bulldozer and you'll realize where in the scheme of things it will be best used. Even at $100 per hour it's a bargan with the amount of work this heavy equipment can do, and you won't be over working your tractor. I had a lot of trees to move while making a road and the dozer just pushes them over. ....
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| rpelleschi
Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 56 Spotsylvania, Va
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2005-01-05 103551
hardwood, I just picked up my Landpride 2572 box this afternoon. Paid $787.00 out the door. Not sure if that was a good deal, but its mine now. Thanks for the advice.
Randy ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2005-01-06 103615
rpellchi; I don't remember exactly what I paid for mine, but that doesn't sound out of line. Hope you like yours as well as I have mine. Have a great day. Frank. ....
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