Go Bottom

My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
riddius
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10 Wv
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2009-08-19          165101


I have a simplicity power max 4040 that was handed down to me thru family. i love the tractor but it over heats after about an hour of mowing. My father had replaced all the hoses, and had the pump rebuilt. But yet it still over heats. the transmission calls for type A, F, or Dexron automatic oil. An older farmer buddy of mine said i should replace that with Valvoline vv720, So i did and noticed i could mow for another hour. But even thou i have extended my mowing time to 2 hours now the tractor still over heats. Not only does the "hot" light come on but i can hear and feel the tractor dragging. Is there something im missing?. I blow all debri off the tractor everytime i use it. My father had replaced the original "Onan" iron block engine with a new 22hp Kohler hoping the aluminum engine would keep it cooler. But that didnt help. Does anyone have any suggestions?



Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2009-08-19          165104


Are grass clippings plugging the radiator or radiator screen during your mowing job? Maybe the radiator/screen needs to be blown out every hour during the job to make sure that airflow is not blocked. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2009-08-19          165105


I'm sure you're using a proper coolant (not plain water) and the belt and thermostat (if fitted) are OK. For the few bucks, replace the cap; gaskets wear out.

Add a cleaner to the cooling system. After running a bit, bring the rad to a shop for pressure-testing and recoring if necessary. Meanwhile the buildup in the block should have loosened so power-flush it (and might as well replace the belt if the lower hose has to be removed for access).

You can leave the hood off while running it until the weather cools.

....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2009-08-20          165128


Replaced or rebuilt all it sounds like but radiator. My guess is your radiator needs cleaning or rodding out or recoring but a good flush may take care of the problem as auerbach has suggested. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2009-08-20          165129


I'm pretty sure the radiators not the problem, especially since it doesn't have one. LOL

This is a big old air-cooled garden tractor.

These machines were known for running hot, right from new, but more so as they got older.

About all you can do is add supplementary cooling, some people have made up shrouds that direct air from 12 volt fans from small cars across the engine, others have even come up with ways to cool the engine, transmission, and sometimes both, oils by pumping them through small coolers intended for auto transmissions (sometimes fan cooled) then back to the sumps.

There are specialty user boards for these machines too, but they all have the same answer, they run hot.

Best of luck. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2009-08-20          165131


Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf | view 165129
I'm pretty sure the radiators not the problem, especially since it doesn't have one. LOL


That explains how they came up with the brand name "Simplicity".
....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2009-08-20          165133


Quote:
Originally Posted by kwschumm | view 165131
That explains how they came up with the brand name "Simplicity".


No, it was one of those "one product, many names" deals, sort of like Pontiac, Buick, Chevrolet.

It was also sold under the Allis-Chalmers, Montgomery Ward, Homelite, Duetz-Allis and Walkers brand names. The only real difference was the colour scheme and a few odd options or attachments. They were very well built rugged units. Right up there with Wheel Horse and Gravely.

The early hydrostat drives were pretty notorious for heat problems. Today it's pretty rare to not have some form of cooling system on a hydrostat drive, back then it was almost unheard of.

Lot's of people have as I mentioned devised their own oil coolers for them.

I have a Kubota HST (all wheel steer) rider someone 'gave me' because they couldn't keep it running cool enough, it would all but stop after 20 minutes or so. I got underneath it and all the fins were broken off the nylon cooling fan that is mounted on the input shaft to the HST unit. I replaced the $30 fan and now it won't overheat after 3 or 4 hours of non-stop cutting.

Best of luck. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2009-08-20          165135


You know Murf had wondered about it being water cooled but the pump and hoses made me think ok. So that is the hyd pump and hoses being rebuilt and replaced.

When looking for a ZTR mower one I liked and decided against it due to dealership was stopping with it was Bobcat. The reason I like it have a oil cooler on top of the engine where the fan in the engine pulled air over it. I would think if room is there you could find an oil cooler with fan unit that could be installed for this. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2009-08-20          165137


The problem isn't finding a place for an oil cooler, they just weren't equipped with one when made, so it's a home-brewed solution to make one from scratch.

Some of the early ones didn't even have a way or place to tap into the oil supply to send it through a cooler, the transaxle is a completely self-contained unit. The only way to do it is to either drill a pair of holes in the case and tap in fittings or make an external wrap of tubing which is then filled with some other type of coolant.

This unit seems to be one with some external lines for something, so in theory (if the pressures aren't too high) a cooler could be installed in the return line.

Luckily these things are only marginally under cooled so it doesn't take a lot of heat dissipation to solve the problem.

Best of luck. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2009-08-20          165140


Murf, seems like without knowing what kind of clearance there is you could mount a 12 volt fan to blow on the pump and that might solve the issue. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
riddius
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10 Wv
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2009-08-21          165155


nothing is clogging the coller at all i clear it out every time i run it. Teh guy who was supposed to fix the problem has two fo these and he keeps them sooo dirty its unreal. He doesnt have one single problem with the machine over heating. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
riddius
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10 Wv
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2009-08-21          165156


please read my post it states it states the fluid im using and the actual problem. The post states teh hoses and pump wre rebuilt. Ive pressure tested it its fine. Any suggestions? ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
riddius
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10 Wv
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2009-08-21          165157


everythings been replaced al hoses and cooler is clear, pump was recently rebuilt ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
riddius
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10 Wv
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2009-08-21          165158


hey, the guy who was supposed to fix the problem actually has two of these same tractors and they werk just fine. No over heating and he keeps them packt full of dirt and debri. Im not mounting a fan on the machine its pretty much impossible first off and two theres something else wrong if this other guy has two that work fine without a fan or being cleaned. Any other suggestions? ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
riddius
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10 Wv
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2009-08-21          165159


there is really no room to mount a fan. I still dont understand how this other tractor doesnt over heat and mine does. Sounds liek somehting is restricting flow. I just dont know what. Im half afraid to keep fooling with it cuz i might cause more of a problem. I've found plenty of people who are confused about this i need some one who isnt. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2009-08-22          165176


You are very aware I don't know this mower but let us look at basics.

Has it always run hot? Even when brand new? If so that speaks to either a design problem or user. If design issue then you had to find the design problem and fix it. If user end then need to figure that out and change it.

So first on design end, is it possible to set it beside one of those dirty machines that never run hot so you can can visibly compare each part to see if you find a difference. Could be smaller diameter hose on yours or such. See if same brand and model of pumps and such. Look for small difference.

As to user, not trying to say your dad or you are not using it properly. Could you be cutting with faster ground speed or lower setting or thicker grass or using a different blade than the other guy does?

In rereading your post it seems the transmission is the only part that has not been repaired or replaced. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
riddius
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10 Wv
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2009-08-23          165183


Here's a little history- This was my great uncles tractor he bought it new in 1973. At the time this was top of the line. It had no problems for a few years then one year some squirls built a nest inside the hood my g-uncle not knowing ran the tractor and over heated it. Every since then its been over heating. My g-uncle past away and my father got the tractor. he replaced teh old cast iron Onan engine with a 23hp kohler thinking the aluminum block would regulate the heat better. The tractor still got hot. My father was then thinking mayb a hose collapsed or was clogged. so he replaced all the hydrolic lines and cleard the heat exchange. Still the tractor would over heat. He then figured teh pump was bad so he sourced out a guy who said he could fix the pump. the pump was rebuilt but still it gets hot. My father got tired of fooling with the tractor and bought another one. He then handed down the 4040 to me. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
riddius
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10 Wv
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2009-08-23          165184


I have all the manuals for parts and repair. Everything is original except the motor, and replaced hoses. My father made sure to replace with same size hoses as original. The blades are original simplicty blades. I mow in 2nd gear 3/4 throttle at half speed. This tractor will cut 2ft grass no problem. i can clear a field easily. Its a strong tractor i dont think whats its cutting is a problem. Now im only using it to cut my yard. My lawn is pretty level, i mean there arent any hills to climb, I mow it pretty regular as well. The manual calls for a charge pressure between 50 and 150psi. the charge pressure it at 150 right now. Should i drop the charge pressure back to say 120psi. The implement pressure is supposed to be between 700 and 800psi i have it at 700psi. in the winter i have to raise it to 760psi so i can lift the snow blower attachment. And yes your right the transmission has not been rebuilt or replaced? Should i now check that as well? Thanks in advance for the help! ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2009-08-24          165204


Quote:
Originally Posted by riddius | view 165183
Here's a little history- This was my great uncles tractor he bought it new in 1973. At the time this was top of the line. It had no problems for a few years then one year some squirls built a nest inside the hood my g-uncle not knowing ran the tractor and over heated it. Every since then its been over heating.


TA-DAH!!!

Mystery solved!!!

When you overheat any hydraulic system, but especially the old ones, you quickly get passed the temperature limit for the seals. The seals get sort of baked and when they cool they become hard & brittle. They then leak, and so to compensate the entire system has to run much harder to still deliver the same performance.

Also, the leaks will create a lot of heat themselves, any time you force fluid to do something, including squeezing through a leaking seal, it creates heat, and lots of it!

So, the problem is two-fold, one, the tractor is running extra hard trying to overcome the losses and still do it's job, and secondly, the leaks are causing additional heat on top of that created by working hard in the first place.

Sorry to say the only real solution is a complete tear down of the entire hydraulic system and replacement of every seal and gasket in it.

Best of luck. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
riddius
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10 Wv
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2009-08-25          165273


wow- great sounds perfect. And you know what i have been experiencing a "hard to find" leak. i notice after i run the tractor and then park it i've noticed some fuild leaking from beneath the tractor. But where its wet is all iron. I couldn't source the leak because it was traveling from a higher point so i could never find it. - Since i got your attention for a second. What do you think about my charge pressure? the manual calls for between 50 and 150psi its right at 150psi do you think i should back it off to 100 or 120? Or does that really not make a difference? Thanks man you've been the most help so far. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2009-08-26          165283


Happy to be of help to you. :)

I'd try lowering the charge pressure down to the lower side of what they recommend. Higher charge pump pressures can lead to increased temperatures, and as I mentioned, these things have a tendency to run from the start. Any reduction in the heat load can only help.

As for the leak, it's probably overflow from the heat. Try getting it real clean (before you start it while it's still cold) with a degreaser, like engine or brake cleaner, then get it heated up and park it, but when you do toss a little flour over the area first. The flour will show you what's wet and not really quickly.

Best of luck. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



My Simplicity power max Overheats

View my Photos
gearhead3
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2 williamsport,md
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2012-06-04          183768


The over heating you are experiencing has nothing to do with your engine. The light on the dash is for the hydro transmission. You are probably running the tractor in high range. Too much running in high range will over heat the trans. Try running in 2 "gear" and push the hydro lever the whole way forward. This should be the perfect mowing gear and you should be able to run all day. Just make sure the hydro cooler (right behind the engine) is clean. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


   Go Top


Share This







Member Login