Go BottomBig wheels with skinny tires
 | hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa 
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2005-01-18 104417
Just heraing the TV ads for new pickups and SUV's they seem to be pumping the 20 inch wheel thing. This past weekend a new looking Lincoln (I think) SUV passed me that had real large wheels and tires that look to be no more than 3 in. high. It looked factory as the wheel wells seemed to match the tire diamater. Is this simply a style trend thing or do they serve a real purpose? Just curious. Frank.
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 | shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin 
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2005-01-18 104418
Frank,
Sure there's a purpose. It's so when your wife bashes the curb angle parking, it's that much easier to break one of those $1000 alloy wheels. :)
Dave ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-01-18 104420
It's two things.
First, a lot of them are aftermarket add-ons, it's a style thing, same as wearing droopy drawers and shirts 8 sizes too big.
Secondly, some of the manufacturers are starting to catch on to something the racing world has known for years, big sidewalls are too flexible. In the quest to keep SUV's on their tires instead of their roof, they have been going to taller tires and stiffer suspension to try to eliminate some of the rollovers from happening.
Best of luck. ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2005-01-18 104421
I have a friend who has been an independent ag tire and also an auto, pickup tire dealer for a long time. he was telling me that with all the new sizes that have came on the market in the past few years it's just about impossible to keep enough inventory to cover everyones needs, I guess every business has it's challenges. Frank. ....
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 | DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998 Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2005-01-18 104422
Murf,
I hear you, however one of the original reasons people started buying SUVs was for traction in the snow. As some of these SUV's go to wide profile tires with almost zero sidewall aren't they turning them into monster sports cars that do not handle all that great in off road or slippery conditions, but can handle a track course great but with alot of vibration. I guess that matches better what current buyers actually do with them anyway.
Dennis ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-01-18 104426
I suspect that with the vast majority of SUV's out there, 'off-road' is not really an issue, they are basically just all wheel drive station wagons and driven as such.
There are some definite exceptions to the rule however, my other half has been thinking she might want an SUV, so I recently test drove a BMW X5 and a Benz ML500. These are both 350'ish horsepower machines that were designed and built with limited offroading in mind.
In fact the BMW comes with really fat 20" wheels that would look more at home on the 750 she is driving now. The salesman was quick to point out that this 'truck' would do 0-60mph in 6 seconds and with the flip of a switch the suspension could be re-tuned into "Sport Mode".
Now there's two things that would be high on my list of things to look for in an off-road machine.
Although I must admit, I do like them butt-heatin' seats on a frosty morning, darned cold leather interior.
Best of luck. ....
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| DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998 Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2005-01-18 104428
I have the butt warmers in my Pilot, I got it to make a hit with my wife, and that it does.
The funny thing is that 20 years ago people started buying pick up trucks because they were cheaper and held their value longer and were more durable.
Trucks were cheaper because it was cheaper for manufacturers to build them because they did not have to worry about cramming things into small spaces as in car manufacturing and they tended to have fewer creature features. Those days are over! LOL
Dennis
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 | StephenR
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 230 New Tripoli, Pa. 
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2005-01-18 104435
How does a truck, with those style tires, work in deep sand? Can they be aired down? ....
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 | AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2005-01-18 104440
Steve:
1. Very poorly.
2. No.
They have the "offroadability" of an Audi AWD. Airing down is to let the sidewall flex and conform over uneven terrain. Low profile tires do not flex, even at extremely low pressure (the theory behind run-flats), which is why they handle on the highway better.
This theory is why some older SUV's have tall sidewall tires (ie older Exploders) to allow the tire to slip laterally rather than grip and cause a rollover. Unfortunately, tire deflection at lower pressure causes "tripping" which is when the tire deflects too far to the side allowing the rim to contact the road surface thus kicking the vehicle over. ....
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| StephenR
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 230 New Tripoli, Pa.
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2005-01-19 104491
Thanks, Makes sense to me. It seems like most of the SUVs are going that route. Something to think about if you're planning a trip to the Outer Banks. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-01-19 104493
Something tells me that very few people who spend $100,000+ on an SUV actually test the off-road abilities of them.
On the BMW X5 I drove, the rubber it comes with is Pirelli 275/40R20's on the front and 315/35R20's on the back. These tires are speed rated as a "W" category tire, which means the manufacturer has tested that tire to run at 168mph (or 272 km/h). This is the only tire the factory offers for this truck, you have your choice of 2 different rim styles though.
In the brochure they did point out however that the vehicle is electronically limited to a maximum speed of only 145 mph (235 km/h).
So I suppose sand dunes and snow banks weren't high on their list of anticipated driving conditions.
Best of luck. ....
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| kubotaguy
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 360 Shepherdstown, WV
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2005-01-19 104496
I work in Washington DC and the SUV craze is ridiculous. We are getting a dusting of snow as I write this now. The forecast is for 1 to 2 inches and listening to the radio, there have been so many wrecks all ready. You can have the best vehicle in the world, but if you have an idiot behind the wheel it doesn't do much good. The 4 wheel drive and all wheel drive get you going better but don't do a thing for slowing you down which most people in the city don't realize and when you get a bunch of people in a hurry to go stopping is a premium!!!!! I'm watching from the window as cars slide through the intersections. ....
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| bnrhuffman
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 107 Falling Waters WV
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2005-01-20 104538
I live less than 2 hours west of DC and I never go there unless Im just passing through to get to I95 or something. The traffic anywhere east of Frederick is idiotic. I know that people go to DC and Baltimore to work for the money but you couldnt pay me enough to get near that area, and I LIKE driving, ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2005-01-20 104542
DennisCTB; Another reason pickups got so popular several years ago was the no matter the cost of the pickup the plates were $35., I think they're $65 now in Iowa. I just wondered if an SUV is licensed as a pickup or an auto. I also wasn't aware you could spend 100,000. on an SUV. Seems like betwen the plates and the insurance in a large metro aeria like D.C. that the cost of those items would be immense. Again, just wondering. Frank. ....
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| shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2005-01-20 104544
At least the trend for the masses seems to be toward smaller stationwagon like SUVs and away from the escalade type truck framed SUV. Most never get off the concrete so why drive a relatively slow, huge vehicle that's difficult to park? And the well documented rollover problems are finally a concern. I notice the younger adults are more interested in 0-60 times and such. So smaller/lighter is what they're looking for.
If I'm correct and the big SUV is soon to be a dinosaur, I can't say I'm sorry to see them go.
Dave ....
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| denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 542 Quarryville PA 
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2005-01-20 104545
I did get some first hand offroad experience in an X5, the model with tires that belong on a corvette or such. I have seen, just yesterday, 2 X5's with normal looking tires. Not sure of the difference in model. The owner was driving me around his 800+ acre estate/Hunting preserve through mud, over rocks through brush and up steep slopes, and at times, I was following in my truck. I was impressed keeping in mind his tires. With all the traction controls and do-dads, it performed only stightly worse than my 93 toyota 4x4 with 31x10.5x15 mud terrains. I unfortunatly only have open diff's. At one point he lost all control and slid down a snow covered hill off the trail, ONLY to be followed by me in slow motion out of control and feeling very nervous heading for his expensive ride. I did stop just in time. It was one of his last straws and he traded it in on a Land rover freelander?, which he lifted and modified for his adventures. I rode in that too and was impressed with the mud we plowed through. ....
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 | AnnBrush
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 463 Troy OH
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2005-01-20 104562
In poor road conditions, the best safety factor usually costs nothing regardless of your tires and other bells and whistles - REDUCE SPEED. I can't begin to count the number of times I have seen vehicles loose control in snow etc just because the driver was going too fast. ....
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 | Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 955 Central Iowa
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2005-01-21 104622
I agree with Ann. I drive an F250 4x4 diesel long box. I don't know how many people pass me during poor road conditions. It's amazing to me about how many people think 4x4 is a magic bullet for ice. You can't stop any faster. So I let them pass. I get home safely and therefore my insurance stays down.
We moved my wife to a big SUV in December from the Mustang. Needed it for the cargo capacity and the 4x4 system since we live out in the boonies. The big thing was carago capacity. Criteria was: haul two dogs (65 & 75 lbs), a baby seat and associated crap, and enough of our crap for 4-6 days stay. Not many on the market can do that. No one makes a big station wagon anymore. ....
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 | dfkrug
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 171 NorCal
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2005-01-21 104628
For those of you who have made the leap to a newer sporty vehicle with the 40-series tires, watch out. If the pressure gets a little low, say 20psi, the tire is easily ruined by overheating the inner sidewalls. And you can not tell by sight that the pressure is low. That is one of the reasons why some of the newest vehicles have the tire pressure transmitters in the wheels.
As for my M3, I wish the car did NOT come with such low profile tires.
Oh, as for handling, Consumer Reports recently did tests that showed that you gain handling advantage with lower profile tires only to a point. Absurdly large wheels (18-22") actually decreased the ride quality and handling due to excessively high unsprung weight. ....
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| bnrhuffman
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 107 Falling Waters WV
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2005-01-21 104645
Ive got a funny story about an X5. I wont go into it totally except to say that he showed up to one of our off-road events to run the trails. He saw everyone airing down their tires and was asking people how much air he should take out of his 40 series tires. No one would touch that one considering that one of his wheels was worth more than most of our vehicles.
On the subject of driving a 4X4 on ice/snow. Here is how I explained it to my wife when we got our Jeeps. The benefit of 4X4 in slick conditions isnt that you can go faster, it allows you to go slower and still keep moving. You need less momentum to keep moving if youve got more traction. As for all those idiots flying down the icy interstate, dont bother trying to flag my Jeep down 10 minutes later to pull you out of a ditch, youre wasting your time. I dont mind helping people but at some point you need to let Darwin take over. ....
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| dfkrug
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 171 NorCal
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2005-01-21 104656
That's a funny story about the X5. Keep 'em comin'. ....
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| Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 955 Central Iowa
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2005-01-24 104819
bnrhuffman:
That's my attitude regarding those that pass me on ice. It's just stupid to go that fast. But then, that's why I make it to work and home. It may take me longer, but it's still faster than waiting for a tow truck. ....
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 | earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2005-01-30 105235
Over ten years ago I spoke to a guy who worked for a design studio for BFGoodrich in conjunction with GM design studios in Warren, MI (Detroit). He said then that 22" inch rims will be common in less than ten years, and he was right. He also said that it will be common for even pickup trucks to have as large as 28" rims from the factory. Again this was ten years ago, but they were experimenting with 32" rims. If you think about it, any of the concept illustrations (drawings) of cars always shows very tall and wide rims with very little tire sidewall. That's not a coincidence. ....
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 | grassgod
Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 566 ct
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2005-02-07 105634
I know the X5's run some where between 60 - 80k so I commend anyone willing to off road it! ....
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| AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2005-02-07 105637
Check my picture 16 for this thoery. Works for me. LOL ....
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