Go BottomTractorPoint Premier Membership fee - Why
 | Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 172 La Crosse WI 
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2003-04-29 54014
What's this?
Did I miss something -- when did the $20/yr fee appear for accessing a bunch of opinions, proffered freely and in the spirit of helping each other out?
What are the rules -- I see the posted original message gets on free, but any response longer than a few lines disappears into the "for-fee" ether.
I understand capitalism: the need to cover expenses, and the desire to profit from one's labor. Had assumed the advertising and other revenue sources would cover it. Don't like it, don't understand it, don't think I'm going to indulge. Too bad; this was a nice website.
jim
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Add PhotoTractorPoint Premier Membership fee - Why
| Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
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2003-04-29 54020
Hey Dennis.
I don't jump onto your website everyday like some regulars, so obviously I missed your conversion to paid-membership. And I just found the other string of comments from the regulars, so that's the reason for a new post.
Since you're going to derive revenue from visitors, I offer a few comments on what I would expect from your change in status -- in other words, a commercial enterprise creates higher expectations from the paying cliente.
First, your home page ought to include some clear statement of the commercial nature of the site, what a non-Premier member can do on this site, an explanation of the costs(what the fee gets the subscriber), etc.
To enter the site and dig into several levels of subjects, only to find out a fee is required is irritating -- this is one reason the home page should contain a notice that a fee is required.
Secondly, being paid for advice and technical information posted herein may put your site into some position of responsibility for anyone following the advice found on the site and resulting in a loss or injury.
jim ....
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Add PhotoTractorPoint Premier Membership fee - Why
| pmhvps
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5 Lowville Ontario
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2003-04-29 54022
Hey Jim, where did the fee pop up? I been on this board for about a week....and it seems like a good spot for info.They can bill me all they want...can't get blood from a stone. The web is big enough..I found this place can find others.
Are you reading THIS CTB? ....
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Add PhotoTractorPoint Premier Membership fee - Why
| DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 689 Western,Pa. 
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2003-04-29 54028
Yes,
To bad. I liked it here myself !! ....
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Add PhotoTractorPoint Premier Membership fee - Why
| JerryGoucher
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 100 NW AR
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2003-04-29 54030
Dennis,
Changing formats and even charging for the right to post photos is one thing, but charging for reading more than a couple of lines is not alright. ....
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Add PhotoTractorPoint Premier Membership fee - Why
| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2003-04-30 54034
I don't see the regular format anymore so I wonder if something changed? Originally there was a click to read more link so anybody could read the longer posts. Maybe a little inconvenient but not that bad either.
The logic was that clicking on a long thread that contained many long messages creates a lot of traffic to load the entire thread, and most people may read only a little of the entire thread. That traffic creates a lot of charges from the hosting service. Nothing is free and the Premium Membership actually was a compromise that allowed people who want to read a lot to help with the charges they create.
Also under the heading of 'nothing is free.' While I was against the well-known free site (I seldom go there anymore) my firewall caught a back door Trojan horse attack. There isn't a necessary connection between the two events but it did trigger my curiosity so I read the site's privacy policy. I was surprised to learn that in using the site I was agreeing to a policy that would allow a Trojan program to gather (I assume personal information in a benign way). Not to say that the attack I experienced resulted from that policy, but in fact, nothing is free.
....
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Add PhotoTractorPoint Premier Membership fee - Why
 | DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998 Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2003-04-30 54041
Whooops!
Hey Guy's All You Have to do is JUST LOGIN and everything should be the same for you as it was !!!!
Let me know if it is not the same as before after you LOGIN and I will work on it right away.
Dennis
TractorPoint ....
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Add PhotoTractorPoint Premier Membership fee - Why
| DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998 Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2003-04-30 54069
TomG,
You are a "Premium" member as is everyone who has the "1-5" little tractors under their name.
Therefore you should be seeing the "Old Original Full Thread" all at once view which is the now the Premium format. So Tom you should not be seeing a any "click here to see more" links on your page. To enable your "premium" view you need to login again to set the cookies to reflect this.
Dennis
TractorPoint
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Add PhotoTractorPoint Premier Membership fee - Why
| DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 689 Western,Pa.
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2003-04-30 54070
Thats better,
Now I can read more than 2 sentences. ....
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Add PhotoTractorPoint Premier Membership fee - Why
 | marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
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2003-04-30 54071
If your computer is set to erase cookies and images every time you log off, then you will have to resign in every time you come to the site to get your premium membership features. I found this out the hard way. ....
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Add PhotoTractorPoint Premier Membership fee - Why
| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-05-01 54088
Dennis: I don't see the regular format and I was trying to understand yesterday's complaints. I didn't know if something had changed in the regular and people couldn't actually read complete messages (which didn't seem too likely) or if they were unaware of the 'click to read more' feature.
The 'click to read more' is by far the best compromise for the traffic cost issue I've ever seen. I imagine it took a bit of effort and I hope it's working out well for you.
....
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Add PhotoTractorPoint Premier Membership fee - Why
| BeeFarmer
Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 85 Ohio
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2003-05-01 54095
OK how many tractors do I get? ....
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Add PhotoTractorPoint Premier Membership fee - Why
| DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998 Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2003-05-01 54096
You get one Tractor, and if you keep up the good work you will sson get two ;>) ....
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Add PhotoTractorPoint Premier Membership fee - Why
| Petrops
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 33 Massachusetts
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2003-05-02 54147
Wow does this one ring home!
I work for a well known search engine and beleive me, I know the argument of: "It ought to be free." vs. "We need to make money." I am sure that there will be some passionate posts on this and that only a small % of the overall passion will even make it to the point of being posted.
Nothing is free and I think we're darn lucky to have this resource at all.
If you want to see passion on the free vs. paid, look at the search industry. Between the years 2000 and 2002, lunch rooms of search companies from California to Massachusetts were alive with this debate and believe me, they were not always civilized. Today there isn't a search engine around that doesn't get $ out of its users one way or another. Plenty of eBlood was spilled along the way and now there are only a handful of engines left. Most couldn't figure out how to make a profit by offering a free service and the majority are now just redirects to other engines or porn sites! Those that survived without making a profit are getting bought by VERY commercial organizations. The few pure search survivors have admitted that ads or subscriptions are the only way to accomplish what we are all in business to do. In web search subscriptions don't work 'cause there are enough good search engines that if one charges a subscription people will go elsewhere. All engines now rely on ads and lisence fees for revenue.
It is very very tough to set up an ad revenue program that pays the bills. It requires resources, serious market knowledge and leverage. For a board like this, thoses assets are not easy to come by. Subscriptions help and I, for one, value the site. Don't get me wrong, I'll still visit the other site and I'll take my long time member status here thank you very much, but the next time my wallet is out because I recognize how much I value NPR, maybe I'll take a minute to recognize the value of TP.com as well.
Good Luck Dennis ....
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Add PhotoTractorPoint Premier Membership fee - Why
| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-05-02 54155
The subject is remote from tractors but I'll indulge myself a bit. Near as I can tell there are some ideas about the net left over from its days as part of the university system. Originally, the net was used (at least after it's time in the military) mostly to shovel dissertation and research data around the world. There also were a few early bulletin boards where research questions could be posted. In that context free content and free access was an extension of academic freedom and was hotly defended as such. The equipment require to operate these networks was mostly owned by universities. The ownership and use was justified by its educational use. As net use within universities expanded and started to include private individuals and recreational use some level of management was required. Management originally was provided by committees of volunteers that has no formal standing and their decisions were binding only in so far as nobody else was willing to do the work.
Commercialization of the net changed the context but notions of free content and free access still persist. It's probably fair nowadays to ask the question 'where does the money come from' and consider that free probably is now a piece of history.
This free access to content idea seems to dominate part of the search engine buz. Some search engines require most of a site's internal pages to be indexed before the site can be placed on the search engine. Why? So searches can find content on internal pages and search users won't have to click through home pages to get to what they're looking for. The results are that many searches return 3 of 4 pages from a few large sites and everybody else is buried so far down that few people every find them. To me, that's not a great version of 'free access to content.' If Dennis were starting this site today, he'd have to pay a few sizable fees and play quite a few silly games or none of us likely would have found the site.
....
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| Stan in Calif
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 47 Sacramento Valley- Glenn County
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2003-05-02 54202
Two years ago, I decided that the JD4400 was the ultimate compact tractor. Then I tuned in here, and quickly learned that this new model was apparently rushed to market too soon and had its share of teething problems. This was later confirmed by members of another tractor board. I decided to wait until the product matured. I am now awaiting the arrival of my new 4310. I already got my $20 worth. Dennis is not trying to get rich; he is just trying to survive. I think it is good for all concerned to have two or more competitors on the field. Count me in. ....
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| Alan L
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 9 Texas
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2003-05-03 54251
I haven't been here in a while since I spend most of my time on other tractor sites. This is a good site, or was, but having to pop up posts is too much trouble, and too slow on my laptop. I ain't gonna do it, and I dang sure ain't paying money to see it like it was. Too many other places on the web to read about tractors and other subjects.
When this is fixed, I'll be back. ....
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Add PhotoTractorPoint Premier Membership fee - Why
 | Misenplace
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 875 Michigan 
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2003-06-02 56288
I cant see why I or any one else would be entiteled to any service for free. I am sure it can be a real pain in the hind end running a web site. It seems to me Dennis is entiteled to be able to pay his bills at the end of the day and make a decent liveing doing it. Thanx for a great site. ....
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Add PhotoTractorPoint Premier Membership fee - Why
 | kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2003-06-02 56295
I've gotta agree with Doc. As a software guy I know maintaining a site like this takes hours and hours of work. Even with the fee I'm pretty sure it's a losing enterprise monetarily. The info here will save me far more than $20. Thanks Dennis for a great site! ....
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