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JParker
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 152 Richmond, VA
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2003-11-24          69535

I had hoped to be able to use my new Orange B7800 w/4-in-1 FEL to bite a number of small (4"-6" dia) locus stumps and yank them out of the ground.

Right now the ground in VA is pretty wet, so it won't get much easier that it is right now, but I couldn't do it. I was just breaking a new machine in, so I didn't go to full power.

I tried straight lifts, pushing & pulling from several directions and didn't seem to make much headway.

The stumps would move fairly well, but they wouldn't let go.

Locus seems to be a pretty stubbborn, stringy wood. :(

Is it time for a dirt saw? :) I have an old Mac that I gave away (and they gave it back). If I can get it started I wouldn't mind getting it in the dirt if necessary.

I'm having some back trouble, so I don't really want to go the pick axe route.


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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2003-11-24          69539

I don't know about locus stumps but I dig out douglas fir stumps with my bucket all the time. Here is my technique.

Approach the stump and dig to the left of the stump. Dig down to where the roots are and then use the bucket to tear through the root. Do the same to the right of the stump. Then tackle it from the front in the same manner. Once I have three sides done I use the bucket curl to pull the stump over. I rarely have to use a chainsaw. There might be a better way but this works for me.

Of course doug firs have fairly shallow roots but I've done stumps up to 12" with this technique. The big ones might take an hour, but I do stuff in the 4-6" range in about 5-10 minutes. ....

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2003-11-25          69549

How much stump did you leave? If you left enough and have a 3ph attachment like a box scraper that has a cutter on both sides should do it. I usually back up against get a good bite and continue to back as I raise the 3ph. Then let go and back over it and do that fwd raising as I pull then use bucket to finish off.

Locust stumps will last a long time. I am just guessing here because of soils but would suspect 6" is proably a little more than a small compact would want to deal with. THAT Said: it is dooable.

Good luck ....

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peterR
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 11 western CT
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2003-11-25          69551

Try pushing over trees before you cut them with bucket up high watch out for dead branch overhead first ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-11-25          69569

Your loader should develop the same amount of power at almost any engine RPM above idle. When you increase the RPM's your get more loader speed not necessarily more lifting power.

I have never had much luck with "ripping" things out of the ground with a compact tractor either, unless it has a backhoe. ....

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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2003-11-25          69599

I use the 3PH for stumps. I use the FEL or backhoe to dig around the stump to loosen it. I have a drawbar between the lifting arm ball joints. A chain and perhaps a little forward motion has worked for me.

The 3PH can lift a lot more than most loaders. It is also very controllable and easier to watch than the FEL. ....

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F350Lawman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 411 Goshen, NY
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2003-11-25          69600

"I have never had much luck with "ripping" things out of the ground with a compact tractor either, unless it has a backhoe."

I agree, I have MUCH better luck with my truck and a good chain. I would try that first.

....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2003-11-25          69604

The Lawman has a good point. When it comes to winning an argument with a stump it boils down to two things, brute force and weight.

I routinely pluck 16-18" pine stumps out the back of my place, but I do it with a 10 ton TLB, not my 'Bota.

The ripper sounds like a good idea if you really want to test your CUT.

Best of luck. ....

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grinder
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 677 central Maine
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2003-11-26          69657

Depending on how many stumps you have (or can get ready)
I would recommend a Vermeer 252 stump cutter,Most rental
stores carry them.Here in Maine they run about 125.00/half day,225.00 full day.Maybe your neighbor has some as well?
I have owned and operated a stump removal service for 8 yrs.
I am on my second new 252,completely wore out the first one.
The trick in renting is a new set of teeth!!Just pull any rocks and dirt away,the width of a spade only 4-5 inches down. Do all your stumps before you rent it. You should be
able to do 4-6" stumps in less than a minute. I can do a 30" Oak 3-4 in. below grade in 20-30 min. Throw the chips
in the woods and put a bucket full of dirt in the whole and your done! No chains to buy, no back windows to replace.
A lot less disturbed area as opposed to pulling.
Any questions, I'll try to help.
You may want to see if there is somebody in the biz around
you area, The machine demands alot of respect!! ALWAYS !!
SHUT CUTTER WHEEL OFF WHEN WALKING AROUND MACHINE!!!
it will rip your leg off!!
Grinder ....

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JParker
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 152 Richmond, VA
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2003-11-26          69726

Thanks for the input.

I left myself about 3 ft of stump to work with in most cases; although now I do think it is best to leave the whole tree as a lever to start with.

One I did that with went over easily enough, but still wouldn't let go. I may try digging it out some with the FEL, but after reading other posts, don't want to rack the FEL too badly by pushing at it with the corners. I have a grader box on the wish list for other uses, but don't have it yet.

I already have a good logging chain, so maybe the 3ph with a toy like Chief's Pic#12, or the receiver hitch advertised to the right would be a good idea. More of a lift operation than a tug, since the back of my head is a lot closer to the stump than in the truck pulling version of this concept...

The Tree Puller (below) might be nice, put I don't have enough to justify the purchase. Not to mention no rear hydraulics on a B7800.

grinder - I'll consider your idea as well. It may be the smartest option of all, I just don't really want to wait to do all of them at once, and don't want to pay to do them more than once. ....


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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-11-26          69732

The most effective and cost effective means of getting rid of trees and their stump I have found is to get a 100' steel 5/16" cable or maybe larger with a choker type loop on it. Take the tallest ladder you can use and climb up the tree; secure the cable to the tree with the loop and hook the other end to your tractor and pull it over. Mind you, with CUTS our size, this is not going to work on a much of a large tree and you may need something heavier to pull it over. We use a 26,000 bull dozer but the prinicple still applys. The long cable assures you a safe distance from the tree when it goes down. ....

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JParker
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 152 Richmond, VA
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2003-11-26          69736

With the size trees I working now, the 100' braided 3/4" rope I bought to get some dead branches out of the big trees may work if tied in the right place.

Getting them over when I have the full tree as a lever doesn't seem to be the problem though. The bucket can push from high enough to knock them down after a few tries from different directions.

The problem is getting them to let go of the ground. I think they reproduce by sending out runners. Some of these runners are pretty long, fairly deep, very stringy, flexible and a lot stronger than I would have suspected.

I'm starting to think about some sort of vertical knife / plow on the 3ph might be nice if that exists. But I doubt it would cut the bigger roots in a straight pull. Adding teeth like a saw would be interesting, but since the 3ph isn't powered in the down mode, that wouldn't work either.

I guess I need some of the old fashioned stump remover that came with a fuse... but where can you find that in a post 9/11 world?

Just kidding... ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-11-26          69747

John, I can tell you that my friend Jim charges $55 an hour with I believe a 3 hour minimum with his dozer. I have helped him pull down trees over 24" in diameter with it. But then again he cuts as many roots around the tree as he can with the dozer blade before pulling the tree down. You may be able to find someone in your area that does the same kind of work. To be honest with you, I doubt you are going to pull a tree of much size down with your Kubota. Just not enough weight. I doubt I could do much with my 4410 either. That is not to say that it cannot be done. You may have to go the trail and error route. Probably need something more along the lines of an 8520 arrrrgh!, arrrrgghh!, arrrghhh! ;-) ....

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grinder
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 677 central Maine
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2003-11-27          69754

Check around for someone in the biz,I find most of my jobs
are 1-4 stumps for the avg. homeowner. I charge 2.00 per. dia. inch. with a 65.00 min. For the 65.00 I will do the first 30 dia. inches. 90 % of my jobs are under a 100.00 bucks. Once people see the results they never pull another stump. If you are not familiar with it, it does one slick job.
I 'm just sitting here shaking my head at some of these posts on stumps! Maybe there aren't any machines in their
area, but men on tractors playing with tree's get killed every year. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2003-11-27          69777

Grinder is right, for the average homeowner with two or three stumps to deal with once every number of years.

However, there is absolutely no faster, or more efficient way to deal with a stump than pulling it out, period.

It is usually just not practical for a backyard job.

The original post doesn't say how many stumps are involved, but if there are very many it may be cheaper, and a LOT faster, to rent a bigger machine for a day and pop them all out at once. I am clearing a few pines from behind my house presently, victims of bark beetle, and even the bigger ones, nearly a foot across, are childs play for my full-size TLB. A machine like that rents for about $250 a day.

Besides, those chips are a major PITA to deal with.

Best of luck. ....

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grinder
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 677 central Maine
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2003-11-27          69802

Pulling them has it place for sure,depending on the situation. But you have to deal with the stump and roots
if you pull it. Also , a bigger hole to fix. In the woods
I just leave the chips and flatten it out.
Another point to consider is that trees are sensitive to change, ripping them out can kill the healthy one next
to it.
I often have contractors with all the big equipment call me to grind one that they don't want to pull for one reason or another.Here in Maine I do a lot of 3-5 foot maple and pine.
That is a good size root ball to deal with.
I have seen a 3pth grinder,perhaps that may be a solution?
....

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web321
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16 Pensacola, Florida
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2003-11-27          69811

If you raise the loader up high and try to push the tree over, be careful!! The tree wouldn't go over ( 8" oak ), my L3300 started climbing the tree, I was falling back in the seat and couldn't press the cluth so I yanked it out of gear at what was probably seconds from flipping. After that close call I will rent the dozer again. ....

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JParker
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 152 Richmond, VA
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2004-01-07          73415

I had a similar experience, but with the hydrostatic trans, and in low range it wasn't a problem. Climb a little, curl the bucket down... If nothing happens, get the chain saw or go to the next tree.

Some one also had a good saftey comment about watching out for dead limbs. Could be bad news for the head or the hood.

I've got to say, the hydro transmissions are great for beginners like me. I prefer straight shifts in cars... for the control; but on tractors the hydro seems to give a lot more control and saftey. Kind of like one of those PIA operator presence switches.

Foot comes off pedal, tractor stops. ....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2004-01-08          73442

I would suggest purchasing or making a sub soiler. If you look at google under this category there are a number of these available for about $100.00. If you work on one root at a time around the periphery of the stump you will be surprised how easy it will pull out. It is alot faster than using a back hoe and you make alot less mess. ....

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Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
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2004-01-08          73444

I reclaimed 6 acre field from big box elders, black locust, and other "nuisance" trees. Used a dozer at $75/hr, since many of the trees were >24" diameter. Also had the operator fill in ravines and other washout/erosion.
No other feasible way to do it. One day's work is enough to keep a CUT owner busy for a couple of years in clean-up and "finish" tasks on his tractor.
One BIG mistake I made is to bury the stumps, either by pushing them into the ravines or digging a hole for them. Or to just cut off the tree and adjust the ground level to make it disappear. The problem shows up 5-7-8 years later in the ground sinking over the stumps or other buried wood, which rots. Now I spend my springs and falls bringing in dirt fill to level the ground again, then planting new grass. It's a pain. I'm always fighting erosion because of the slope of the ground and the natural runoff, so if the water finds low channels it will eventually cause new erosion (mole runs don't help either).
Best advise I can give is to burn everything you remove from the ground.
jim ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-01-08          73448

After many years experience (frustration?) at clearing land for golf courses we have realized that there is no faster way to deal with small stumps than with a grapple bucket on a ful-size TLB. I recently pulled a few 4" to 10" evergreens out behind my shop building. It wasn't until they got bigger than 8" that I had to do anything but grab and lift, even then a little push forward and a little pull backwards before the lift was all that was required.

The big advantage to removing any stump with a grapple bucket or excavator equipped with a thumb is that you can give the stump a good shake and remove most of the earth as it comes out of the ground. This goes a long way to reducing the size of the hole that's left behind.

Depending on how much of a rush we're in we either drop the stumps into a tub grinder or stack them and burn them the following winter.

A few hundred dollars in rental fees or sub-contracting charges wouldn't go very far towards repairing a broken CUT or operator.....

Best of luck.
....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2004-01-08          73452

If it is a relatively small job, using a single beam subsoiler is the cheapest approach while getting hours on the CUT. If it is a large project or needs to get done fast than going to get help is the best. It is always good to get pricing estimates and then do it yourself. That way you can tell mama how much the tractor is saving you by having it and what a good purchase it was. ....

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gauthier
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 148
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2004-01-09          73588

Locusts are one tough kinda wood,thats why they were about all used up around this area,used for fence posts,I don't know how deep they are rooted,but they root easy,a green,[and not fresh],locust post will start growing,with out any man type help,and the wood is hard on chain saws,so what you are saying makes since to me,generally speaking,if you leave 4 or 5 ft. of stump,it will give you leverage worked loose with enough force and time,if you just got a few then buy you a new bar and chain and waste the one you got on your saw now,cutting them down about flush,enough where you can mow over,if you got more,might need a backhoe and a dozer,if the stumps are 3 or 4 ft high,might get by with just a dozer. Richard ....

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jklmnugent
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 10 La Mesa, CA
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2004-02-02          75807

Richard, it sounds like you have have lots of good advice for small stumps. What your post brought to mind however was my cousin Kenny's approach to stumps of a larger variety. A licensed blaster, Kenny has popped stumps, dropped silos, you name it with judicious placement of the proper amount of dynamite. It is plain amazing what these guys can do. ....

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gauthier
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 148
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2004-02-02          75809

Dynamite,thats it! Yeah,its a big job clearing land down to yard like quality,if your removing trees,even small ones,it gets to be a whole nother ball game,bought boils down to major excavation,dozer,backhoe,and or tnt! Richard ....

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kyvette
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 194 Central Kentucky
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2004-09-01          95234

Grinder, I was looking at your pictures. I like the one of the F15 on top of the car, don't see that every day. Any idea of how that happened?

As to the rear mount snow blower, what size do you have and what is the required PTO HP? I would expect the rear mount to be less expensive that a front mount.

I have been to Maine a couple of times, once in early October, very beautiful. ....

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AnnBrush
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 463 Troy OH
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2004-09-01          95272

Here is my low-tech low-cost solution to stumps. I have a tripod of 3 steel tubes (heavy duty) they are about 12' long. At the top they are chained together and a chain hoist (6 ton - cost $89.00 from some discount tools traveling warehouse) is attached to them. The three legs of the tripod are chained together to prevent the legs of tripod expanding outward. I bore a hole through the stump about 6" above the ground with a hand operated bore bit (usually very easy). Into the hole I slip a prybar. The end of a piece of chain is wrapped around the stump below the prybar, the other end is wrapped around the stump 180 degrees from the first in the same manner as the first end, so the looped ends are on oposite sides of the stump. The connecting loop of chain is attached to the chain hoist. I pull on the hoist chain and 12000 lbs of force pulls the stump up and right out of the ground. Tying both ends of the chain to the stump at 180 degrees offset ensures that the trunk does not split at the prybar and just yank it straight through the trunk. Total cost for the contraption was about $ 140.00. Total cost to operate: $0. I even get a little workout and havent met a stump I couldent pull, I dont need a FEL or a BH. Some stumps have been 16 - 18 inches in dia. and it usually takes me about 30 to 45 mins to do one stump - beginning to end. Plus I have the tripod for lifting all sorts of stuff thats really heavy, and I can leave it out in the rain if I get sidetracked by the kids and have to quit. Hope you come right. ....

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beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-09-01          95313

Ive told the story before on this board, but it bears repeating. We pulled my neighbor out from under his CUT when he tried to pull a stump with a three point mounted drawbar. He had the three point raised to where the draw location was above his rear axle. He popped the clutch and the tractor torqued over on him faster than he could react. He recovered in 4 months.

Use the right tool for the job at hand. A CUT isn't usually a good stump puller. I have pushed over many 4-6" trees with my FEL. If that doesn't work, it's off to the rental yard. ....

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grinder
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 677 central Maine
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2004-09-02          95336

Beagle
You are right about the right tool for the job.
It's called a stump cutter, (Vermeer)
Rental yards usually have the 252 model like mine.
125.00 for half day. You should be able to do about a hundred small stumps, (if they are close together)in that
amount of time.
The best part is you don't have to haul it off,have the roots all ripped up, and with a little common sense have
all you arms and legs in working order.
Pretty good chance you won't even break a sweat! ....

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husky125
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 23 Indiana
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2004-09-02          95349

I've been pretty successful digging out just about any stump I wanted to with the backhoe on my 4400. The key is patience. I was able to dig out a 24" maple stump from my backyard. However, when I was finished it looked like a bomb had gone off and it took both the tractor and my truck to get it up our of the hole. I only attempted it for practice with the backhoe. It was definitely not the most efficient removal method. For smaller stumps it works well to use a narrow bucket on the backhoe to dig through the roots on each side then reach underneath and curl the bucket to break the stump loose. As a couple of the posts above related, be careful using the 3 point hitch. It's far to easy to turn the tractor over on yourself. I definetly wouldn't try that method with a gear model. With an HST you can let off the pedal to stop pulling, but with a gear tractor, if you foot slips of the clutch it's all over. ....

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trbomax
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 133 Starvation Lake, Mi
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2004-09-03          95552

The backhoe is tough to beat for stumps.Weve pulled about 10 this week on my ditchbank project,a couple as small as 10", 3 or 4 were 3'dia.Got to have patience cutting those pesky roots, then curl it out when ready.This is with a TC35DA, [definitly not a big loader]! ....

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iamhistory
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14 PA
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2007-06-25          143174

Nobody has mentioned burning the stump. Would that work?

I've never tried it......only all the methods you guys have discussed. But, I saw that my neighbor did it the other day. He had about 8 stumps in his yard that aren't there anymore and when I was over there they were down to ashes and still smoking. The bad part was that his lawn around the stumps was burnt, but wouldn't all our other methods ruin the lawn around the stumps anyway?

Just wondering about the burning method and if anyone has ever tried it. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-06-25          143181

A friend of mine did that. The stump smoldered for a few days. Then the underground root system started smoldering. Two weeks later the underground burning had spread and smoke was rising from the earth over a half acre area. He was in a major panic but a few good days of rain solved the problem for him. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2007-06-25          143191

iamhistory, it has been mentioned here before, just not in this thread. My wife and I have burnt many. As kwschumm pointed out I would not do so in an area of undergrowth or mulch.

My wife developped it very well. To begin with we are talking about pine stumps with tar that will burn under right conditions. She would pile grass clippings on the stump. The light the grass clippings. They control the amount of oxyen to the stump, causing it to burn slow but very throughly. Now I more (moved) but no grass catcher. kt ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2007-06-25          143199

The only safe way to burn a stump is AFTER it has been removed from the ground.

As Ken said, they've been known to smoulder away underground and re-appaer a long time and distance from where they started.

If the stump is small, it should come out without too much trouble.

Best of luck. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-06-25          143209

I would suppose burning stumps is like other things, some are safe and other situations are not. The only trees here who stumps will burn in the ground are pine and then only after rotting and the heart turning into lightwood. In that process most roots have rotted away. I have never known of any problem with the burning of these stumps in the ground UNLESS they are in a forrest type area. That would be asking for a problem. kt ....

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stovepipe
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2 Jefferson County West Virginia
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2008-05-28          154014

Pulling stumps can be a nightmare. I have a Kubota BX2350 and use it to pull 4" to 6" inch Chinese Sumac stumps. Using the FEL was useless so I used a shovel to loosen the soil and locate a lateral root. Then wrapped a heavy chain around the stump and root, hooked the chain to the front of the tractor and in 4WD pulled the stump by rocking it SLOWLY until it broke loose. Pulling a stump in reverse is in my opinion safer because it's easier to see the progress and notice if the chain is going to break free. If the chain snaps or comes off the stump while under power it can be dangerous to the operator so keep it slow and be careful of the angle of the chain.
Hope this helps.
....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2008-05-28          154016

Since my last post on this I have purchased a small excavtor and taken out many stumps in woods we had logged that is being turned into more yard. I learned on the roots if you are not able to ripe through them then move further from the stump with the root getting smaller until you are able to. Then you can move up the root as you are only breaking off one end rather than trying to pull it into in two places. Have also learned you can use the roots as leverage to twist the stumps loose. kt ....

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2008-05-28          154023

I just use the chainsaw again, to cut the stump around ground level. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2008-05-29          154047

Quote:
Originally Posted by auerbach | view 154023
I just use the chainsaw again, to cut the stump around ground level.


It was rather common here years ago when farming was done with mule power to dig down a foot or so and cut off the stump. Plow would never be that deep so no problem. Certain pine trees here do not rot, rather their sap protects them and they will last years and years with no rot or insect damage. Then came tractors and deeper plowing and those stumps became major problems. Even worse since they were now hidden and with increasing tractor speeds more likely to cause damage. There there is my front yard that was a forest before we built. We removed trees from the smallest up to about 3 feet in diameter. The stumps which were not easy pulled were ground below ground level with no digging to protect the roots of those left. That was 10 to 8 years ago. Filling in the rotting stump holes has been an annual event for the last few years and my guess will last for another 2 to 4. Not much fun. No doubt cutting the stump off works in some situations but not all. kt
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