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Rear hydraulics valve

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-02-14          76862

Is a rear hydraulic valve that important? How and what would you have a use for it for? Is it worth $195 installed, or will I be able to use (disconect )one of the existing rear valves for the few times I may need it?
Thanks


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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2004-02-15          76914

Are you talking a hydraulic outlet or rear SCV extension?

Don't know about blue tractors but on green tractors you can get a rear SCV extension that has a diverter valve and allows you to use your FEL joystick for similar rear functions.

OR..... you can get a separate rear power outlet to hook up to things that have their own control valves such as a log splitter or a backhoe.

I have the latter and I use it all the time, since I have a BH and a log splitter and now use it also as the power source for my top n' tilt kit. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-02-15          76915

Mark, how are the Top-and-Tilt controls arranged with your Gearmore setup? ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-02-15          76931

DRankin
All I was told or asked, by the dealer is if I wanted the rear hydraulic valve? I suppose if I dont get it installed I will find out later that I should of? I am assuming it is for running attachments off the back end. Since I am relatively stupid when it comes to all things related to cuts, I have no idea what I would have a use for it for but if they sell it and he recomended it, I probably should consider having it since he said it was $195 and instalation was free. Slowly but surely the price keeps getting closer to $20 grand, LOL. Oh well if I pro-reate it over 40 years it is only $500 bucks a year (RIGHT?) lol. ....

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DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 689 Western,Pa.
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2004-02-15          76932

If you are talking about rear remotes, $195 installed for 1 set of rear remotes is a very good price.
Later when you can afford a hydraulic top link you will be set up to plug it in and go. ....

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Abbeywoods
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 110 New England
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2004-02-15          76935

Here is a short list of attachments that require outlets at the rear: top and tilt 3pt link, grader blade, landscape rake, stump grinder (usually for sweep and feed), hydraulically powered tiller, backhoe/thumb, hydraulic post digger, some brands of wood splitters, some types of box scrapers, and trencher. I've used most of these (mostly rentals) on the 3 pt. at one time or another, I'm sure there are much more. The price sounds fair for a set of outlets, but I think it will be higher if a selective control valve goes with it. ....

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kentfield
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 16 southern VT and western Ma
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2004-02-15          76937

on the JD 4000 10 tractors the DSC valve comes with the third valve, and you only have to but the control lever and the hyd lines to the back of the tractor. The John Deere list price is about 200 for the kit. ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-02-15          76966

Thank you all, Yes the $195 is installed,
I am a CNH employee so I am supposed to be getting a break on all the prices, it is not a huge discount but it definatly is better than a thorn in the eye!
Thank you for the list of some of the attatchments. When you say back blade, If I was to put a top link on it will I be able to controll the draft angle from the seat? or how would that work.? I have a blade that I use on my 8n that I am going to keep when I sell the 8n. Will I be able to use that with the hydraulics and top link or is that a special back blade?
I am very ignorant on alot of this stuff so please bare with me. By this time next year I will be helping other newbie's LOL.
On a side note: This has been probably the best $20 bucks I have spent, I cant believe how much you all have helped me and more than likely saved me $1000's in work and attatchments added later. I think I have got over the initial shock of the add ons, adding up! And have realized (from talking with all of you) that I better get this thing equiped the way it should be now! for if not I will be kicking myself later.
Thanks again ....

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DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 689 Western,Pa.
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2004-02-15          76969

You can use the back blade you have now with a hydraulic top link.
I can give an example of how mine works.
I have 2 control levers on the right side of my seat just in front of the position control lever.
These levers control anything plugged into my rear remotes.
I mostly use mine for a hydraulic top link and hydraulic tilt cylinder.
If I have a boxblade or backblade attached to the 3 point, I can angle it ahead or back to control the cutting angle of the implement, I can also control the tilt angle, on the go, from the seat.

....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-02-15          76980

DK
I had asked for the deluxe 3pt with the tractor which will alow me to manually crank the adjustment. It sounds like a top cyl. will do the same but eliminate the need for the crank? If I am right (which I dont know) should I consider cancelling the deluxe 3pt and go with a standard 3pt and have them out in a top link instead? or is a top link a pretty easy install yourself later? Man all these questions/decisions are driving me nuts trying to decide what I should get!
Thanks ....

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DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 689 Western,Pa.
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2004-02-15          76983

If you already have the rear remotes installed a hydraulic top link is easy to install later.
Manual crank adjusters should be standard equipment on the 3 point.
....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2004-02-16          77069

Ken, the dealer custom fabricated a bracket for the hydraulic controls. I'll see if I can shoot a pic and post it.

That will give me a chance to try the new photo editor Dennis installed. ....

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agentorange
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 117 Pacific Northwest
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2004-02-21          77455

The new photo stuff he put up is great.
I could not get it going at first and then went to a website and d'loaded a quick Java app enhancer.
Then used Dennis's program.
REALLY works well.

Let's see those pics.

-ao ....

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agentorange
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 117 Pacific Northwest
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2004-02-21          77459

But wait...there's more!

I also am curious about rear hydro control and have been reading this thread.

Looks like Kubota has a aux block option available or maybe it's a part that can be purchased later.

Check #10 of my pics. I have posted a scan of diagram from owners manual. Looks like (see diagram) to me: (with pressure releived) you install the "hydraulic block type outlet" to the existing line and create flow to implement out of "B" port. The flow goes to implement thru control valve. Then it flows from implement to "C" in hydro block. It states that the available flow is 4.4 gallons/minute on my 7510. The next page (not scanned) shows the location of the "return port". There is also talk of 'power beyond'. Trying to understand this as well.

My questions are:
1) when the contol valve is not open to run implement the flow merely bypasses the block and runs normal?
2) when the control valve opens it flows at 4.4 ga/min. It states that there is no relief valve in block but wouldn't relief come from downstream in existing run of flow?
3) if relief doesn't exist downstream, wouldn't it be easy to have relief (adjustable?) in the contol valve to implement or do implements have built-in valves?

I would be curious if someone could direct me/us to a site that may have diagrams of normal valving and pressure relief systems on a tractor. Or possibly hand draw something and scan it to the site.

I am an elevator mechanic by trade and know quite a bit about the functions and controls for an elevator. I am trying to apply this knowledege but can't seem to get over the next hurdle.

tks. -ao ....

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agentorange
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 117 Pacific Northwest
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2004-02-21          77460

Upon further review.... I went outside and looked, pretty cold out there but a genius move.

I see that the scanned pic shows block cover for 'no implement' and 'with implement'. I now have the 'with' arrangement because of the FEL. Duh!

There are two lines coming from block to 4-way FEL valve w/relief. Comes in as green and orange, controls are 4 other colors going to FEL. Obviously the 4 directions of the loader. So if I wanted to create a hydro top-link or generic push-pull for the rear I would simply send that info to the rear instead of the FEL. Intercept and switch it to the aux item. Granted, if I was to be using both at the same time, flow would be an issue I suppose. But I'm sure I could live with that and would be using one or the other anyway.

Am I getting closer?

-ao ....

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agentorange
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 117 Pacific Northwest
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2004-02-21          77464

Now it's getting impressive.
4 posts in a row by the same guy.
I must say...a new personal best.

I foghat that I had inquired to and rec'd email, ref d'load info
for B7510HSD jumbo pak of diagrams and service manual type information. Got it for the LA302 loader as well. It's a giant .pdf file and I highly recommend looking for your appropriate orange machine. Maybe other colors too, dunno.

Go get it before itsgottabegreen downloads, copies it off, and sells it to you for $50.

Holy cow! Did I say that out loud too?

-ao ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2004-02-21          77465

I think you'll need something like what you see in pic #3, in my pics. A deverter valve. ....

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agentorange
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 117 Pacific Northwest
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2004-02-21          77507

Billy - great looking genset you have there, sharp little family going too eh? Nice job.

The diverter valve diagram is from?

-ao ....

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beagle
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Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-02-21          77522

I,m not sure if I am in the right place on this thread, but to add an auxiliary valve with the FEL installed, go from power beyond on the FEL valve to the inlet on the aux valve. Power beyond on the aux valve back to the PB port on the hydraulic block. You will need to add a tee on the lower pressure return line, and have both the FEL and the aux valve returns connected to the return port on the tractor. Make sure the aux valve you add has a power beyond port. You need it to complete the pressure loop in the tractor hydraulics. ....

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agentorange
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Posts: 117 Pacific Northwest
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2004-02-22          77553

beagle - so there is a "power beyond" port on the FEL assy? Somewhere on the 4-way that I should be looking for it sounds.
I'll take a look at the info recently from TractorSmart and find valve assy diagram.

-ao ....

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beagle
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Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-02-22          77629

Yes. You need the power beyond port to continue the hydraulic loop for the rest of the tractor hydraulics. You have the diagram of the hydraulic block. One of the ports on the block is labeled power beyond. Follow line on that port back to the FEL valve. It will be on the output side of the valve, going back the hyd block. The other line on the output side of the valve will go to the return port of the tractor. This is where you will need a tee to connect the return of the aux valve with the return of the FEL valve. Tractorsmart can give you a diagram, or draw a diagram from my previuos reply. Once you see it on paper, it makes a lot of sense. the per beyond is necessary to continue the high pressure circuit for the tractor hydraulics. Let me know if you need any more infor. Good luck ....

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agentorange
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2004-02-22          77635

thanks beagle
when time permits I'll be diving into it and advise

-ao ....

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beagle
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Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-02-23          77659

For future reference, I looked at your pic 10. Port C is where the power beyond from the aux valve attaches to the block. The low pressure outlet will then tee at the trans case with the FEL low pressure outlet. ....

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shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2004-02-23          77683

Thanks beagle. I have some of the same questions about installing remote hydraulics and I think I'm finally getting it.
Dave ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-02-23          77751

I opted for the rear (extra) valve. The dealer told me on the right side next to your right hip there are 2 extra empty slots. That is where the control handle goes for that valve (in one of the empty slots. I will have to wait and find out for myself how it works, maybe I am not explaining it correctly, I think you guys know what I am talking about (just I dont ) LOL. dealer says its a great option to have so I figured I better just trust him and go with it. Heck he even bought me and my brother in law lunch when we met for the signing. Good deal eh? LOL
He is a heck of a nice guy, drove 45 min. to meet me so I did not have to go off the highway and out of my way on Sat. late afternoon. I was on my way up to the cabin and was hauling a car trailer. Actually he saved me a 125 mile round trip by coming out to meet me. I would say that that is a heck of a dealer, since his shop closes at 2pm and it was 330 when he met me on Sat. ?
(can you tell I am a bit excited?) the wait is going to kill me for the tractor to get in)
Thanks guys!!!! ....

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JDF415
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 34 Kansas
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2004-02-24          77797

brokenarrow,
Wise choice with the extra hydraulics. I always recommend buying MFWD, Hydrostatic transmission, and at least 2 scv's (selective control valves) if not 3 or 4.
The thing is, even if you think you will never use them... someday you might. And even if you never do... when you decide to sell it, the tractor becomes alot more appealing to many potential buyers with these options. The other thing to consider.. as long as a tractor is current production, you can always purchase these add on options at a later date. However, once a model is no longer current production the manufactors usually will stop making these kits available, because of low sales volume. Once this happens it because harder to find, and more expensive to buy these options. For example try to find a powerbeyond or a power steering kit to fit a tractor built just 10 to 15 years ago. It is not always easy. And some options can not be added later or are much cheaper to have installed at the factory, such as MFWD.
Just some thoughts.


As far as hydraulic options....
Two mid mounted (couplers) scv's with joystick control is what is needed for a FEL. Always buy the tractor with these even if you don't buy a loader.

The third and/or fourth SCV with couplers out the rear of the tractor are less important but still nice if you operate any attachments with a hydraulic cylinder such as a dumping bed on a wagon or trailer, or the very popular top and tilt links on the three point hitch. One the new 4010 JD series compacts this is available as a diverter valve mentioned earlier in this thread. It uses the same joystick to control the hydraulics. It is just a matter of where the oil is flowing to.. the front couplers to operate a FEL or to the rear couplers to operate the top and tilt on the 3 pt hitch. The diverter simply changes the flow of oil from one set of couplers to the other with the flip of a switch. The downside to this option is cost.

The final hydraulic option to consider is the powerbeyond.
This option would be used with any attachment that uses it own control valve such as a log splitter or backhoe.

I hope you enjoy your new tractor.




....

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