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 | Wildman1
Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 196 Chugiak, Alaska 
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2003-10-25 67081
One other question: reversing the blades.
I've got a 2000' gravel airstrip to begin maintaing. The problem we're having is aircraft blowing the gravel to the sides concaving the middle. I'm going to use a 60" rear blade to drag the gravel back to the center, then plan to use the box to level it. I'm wondering if reversing the front blade would make for better leveling.
I'm new to box blades but after using it to scrape and level the banks along my 180' driveway I'm impressed. It took me an hour to get the top link set right and then it started doing the job. Fortunately, I can reach the top link from the driver's seat on the 2210.
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada 
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2003-10-25 67091
Mike, have you thought about a chain harrow to level once you blade the gravel back to the middle? ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-10-25 67094
The blade will work, you might want to consider a little mortor or concrete mix spread down and wetted to hold the finer stuff in place a little more. ....
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| Wildman1
Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 196 Chugiak, Alaska
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2003-10-26 67109
Art & Mark, we are building a 100 gal. tank and spray bar to spread dust control agent. I'm not sure what the agent is yet but that's a major concern keeping the fines from blowing away. I think we'll be going to an asphalt emulsion agent.
Even then we'll have to grade every other month or so to get the gravel back and spray once or twice per year. Prop wash creates a unique invironment that gravel roads don't experience.
I have no experience with chain harrows, Mark. The homeowners paid for the box and the rear blade to use since I had already ordered them. Tell me more about them.
Thanks guys
....
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| Wildman1
Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 196 Chugiak, Alaska
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2003-10-26 67110
Art, I suggested using an oil to keep the fines in place but one of our neighbors, who's & engineer and does this sort of thing for a living said that oil, cement..etc..will work until we have to re-grade the gravel. Then we'd get slabes and chunks coming up that would create bigger problems. But, you're right, we have to use something to hold the fines. ....
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 | TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-10-26 67114
Got to remember that you're only reading 200 words at a time. From our highway dept's experimentation with various stuff to slow down erosion on our gravel shoulders, I've got to agree with your friend. One of the experiments created clouds of dust kicked up by transports. The pit run I use on drives compacts and leaves a bed of stone that doesn't blow but I don't know how it do if planes were dropped on it. It also might not get compacted very well depending on how much traffic the strip gets. Many grading implements will disturb a compacted surface and create more loose stone until it's compacted again.
Box scrapers are like Swiss Army knives. They'll do everything but something else usually does a single job better and easier. They aren't the best for finish work. Like Mark mentioned, there are better tools that you might look at for that much areas and for that frequency. A hydraulic top-link would help box scraper operations immeasurably. ....
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 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2003-10-26 67120
As Tom stated a hydraulic top link will allow you to easlily pick up and drop material with the box blade. The hydraulic side link will allow you to move the material to the center with the box blade.
The flex harrow will level small irregularities and can be run quickly across the surface. I am uncertain as to how the scouring action will effect dust and loose gravel. You certainly want to mininize prop damage.
I am wondering if you don't need to create a roller to compact the gravel after grading? ....
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 | Blueman
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 243 Washington, PA
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2003-10-26 67121
Somewhat related; I have a 600' gravel driveway, and a few bags of mortar left from various jobs...would any of you recommend spreading some of this on the driveway to help hold the fines from washing out, getting kicked up, etc? ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-10-26 67127
Mike, how wide is the runway?
I am thinking you might need a third (cheap) tool but when you start working the ground that may become evident in itself.
The angled rear blade can be used to pull the material from the edges back to the middle.
The box scrapper can pull down the high spots and deposit the material into the low spots.
Then you will need a finishing tool. My brother in Eagle River has the flattest, smoothest gravel drive I have ever seen. He drags a used rail from the Alaska Railroad over it.
I couldn't find any readily available used rail down here in America so I got a ten foot length of 1/4 by 3 inch angle and attached it to the front edge of a set of carry-all forks. I found some heavy 2 1/2 inch steel pipe and cut that into the rear of the forks.
So now I have a wide flat finishing/leveling/grooming tool that I can "float" over the surface by pulling it on a chain or I can put it on the three point hitch for transport or more serious light grading work.
It is still in the development stage, but the first run with it last week showed it will work as anticipated. ....
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| Wildman1
Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 196 Chugiak, Alaska
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2003-10-26 67134
Mark, I'd like to see a pic of your drag that you made. Also, Peters may be right about compacting the gravel after grading. The runway is 30'x2000'. It lasted for 20 years with virtually no maintenance. Then traffic began to increase dramatically as all of the lots were sold and airplanes moved in. 3 years ago we had the whole thing redone professionally with belly scrapers..etc. $15,000 worth. Now, to have someone come back and regrade & spray will be $8000. That's when we all decided to re-think our long term maintenance.
Meantime, I had just happened to buy the 2210. The lights flashed on and I was approached about doing it. So..here I am. Starting a new and untried operation.
I'm all ears for any and all suggestions, ideas..etc. One thing about the strip..it's perfectly level as far as any dips or chuck holes. Only need to re-distribute the gravel.
Thanks for all the help ....
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 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-10-26 67136
Wildman1, would something like this work better for you? They also make a pull type as well as the 3 pt. hitch type. ....
Link: click here
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| Wildman1
Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 196 Chugiak, Alaska
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2003-10-26 67140
Chief, The thought of using a landscape rake has crossed my mind....more than once. I think it will boil down to trial & error.
I'd have a good idea by now what will work if my rear blade had come in...but it's only been 2 months since I ordered it. The box came in last week and it wasn't supposed to even be shipped until next month. I think between JD, Frontier & Woods they have a serious co-ordination problem.
We're definitely getting a large roller, probably with a vibrator, to compact the final grade. Now we're looking at getting a sprayer used for ag work and trying that to spray the asphalt emulsion. Might have to modify the nozzles. The stuff has the viscosity of diesel fuel.
Seems like this "simple" project has developed a life of its own.
Thanks for your input. ....
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 | harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY 
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2003-10-27 67168
Wildman Several have given you great ideas. Me thinks you should look at other similiar operations and see what they are doing. Reinventing the wheel...
Land scape rakes will not work for your application because of the seperation/segration of materials.
If you are seriously considering and Asphalt emlusion, depending on your definition, it will not work in a farm sprayer but 1 time. The stuff has to stay heated to 150 degrees F and needs to be aggitated. ANY residue left in the line will require disassembly and soaking in a solvent to remove.
You might consider a lite dust oil that is a very lite blend of asphalt plus some other stuff. Proipretary rules apply here. It is envionmentally friendly, if you have tree hugger issues.
Talk to a local asphalt supplier for a custom spray 1-2 a year. Get their opinion and quotes for what will work on your gravel. Some oils work better on course stuff vs. fines, types of aggerates affect the preformance of emlusion based oils also. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-10-27 67183
I think Harvey made a good suggestion unless the strip owners already looked around and know they have something that works. I wouldn't know how well pit run would standup at usual touchdown points no matter how much it's compacted or what surface treatments are used. In Saudi Arabia golf greens are called browns because light crude is sprayed on the sand. I don't imagine they'd stand up well if planes landed on them, nor could they be smoothed out as easily as plain sand. Don't know what kinds of shoes are worn. It'd be very good to know that what ever is considered had been used successfully in similar conditions.
After gravel is moved back to the centre, there may be a lot of loose material. When my scraper is in fairly deep loose material it will pick up more material than it spreads no matter how much the top-link is extended. I end up with more stone than sand at the ends of passes. I usually back-drag it first with the loader before using the scraper. ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2003-10-27 67197
Widman, seriously look at putting down CaCl (Calcium Chloride) which is readily available EVERYWHERE since it is a very common de-icing solution.
One big advantage to CaCl is that it is available in both liquid solution and anhydrous (pellets or flakes) form. This means you can lay it down with anything from a shovel to a regular fertilizer spreader, hand-held, walk-behind, tow-behind or 3pth type. Or recuit anyone with a pickup truck mounted salter, they work great. After application of flakes or pellets either wet it down or wait for rain or snow to do it for you.
The other nice thing about CaCl is that it doesn't really affect your ability to work with the surface material, you can re-grade it to your hearts content and it binds everything right back up again. It is also easy to 'top up' the amount of solution in the surface by periodically adding more, this is what they do with gravel roads around here, after a few years of repeated applications it takes VERY little to bring the surface to a very hard crust with no dust of any consequence.
Best of luck. ....
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| Wildman1
Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 196 Chugiak, Alaska
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2003-10-27 67234
I forwarded this thread to our homeowner's president, who's also the engineer guy. He had 2 different emulsions in mind to use..one is a 50/50 solution mixed with water. I am very interested in Murf's suggestion about CaCL.
No snow in the forcast this week so may get a chance to experiment...if the RB ever gets here. We don't plow the snow on the strip, just groom it for ski operations.
I plan on contacting the State airports maintenance folks about how they maintain gravel airstrips.
Thanks for the input ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-10-27 67241
Wildmike and Murf... I still owe you some pictures. I hope to get to that this week. ....
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| crozier
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 32 Crozier, VA
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2003-12-31 72810
I maintain about a mile of private road for 22 homes. 3 years ago I started putting on calcium chloride for dust control. It pulls moisture out of the air and keeps the road damp. It cuts the dust way down and the road retains its fines. I use 30 bags on the road in late spring and it lasts at least 6 months. I hook a small trailer to my tractor and a broadcaster to my trailer. It spreads very evenly and cost about 12 bucks a bag. I get it from southern states which is our ag store. It's good because unlike oils or cement it will not cake or crust. ....
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