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Rear Blade choice

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ereilly
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5 Applegate, Oregon
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2002-09-23          42839

I am ready to buy and I have two rear blades to choose from at my local dealers. Both are similar in quality. Any words of wisdon to help me make a choice? My uses is to maintain a driveway in So. Oregon. Wet winters, bone dry summers. Need to keep ditches open and do some grading. I have a mile of graveled road (compacted shale) and another 1/2 mile of forest road with native soil just cut in this year during Oregon wildfires. My tractor is an Allis Chalmers labeled Japanese build, diesel, 21 HP @ PTO. It is 4 WD and is 5 feet across the rear tires. I am looking at a 6 foot blade.

Both Blades are 1/4 inch steel. Both have 14 inch moldboards and can offset 12 inches.

1) Bush Hog model 35 - 290 lbs, 5 forward positions up to 30°, 3 reverse positions up to 15 deg., tilt 15 deg. up or down, moldboard is 1/2 x 3 inches - price $425

2) Landpride RBT-1572 - 267 lbs, 7 Fwd. Up to 45 deg., 5 Rev. up to 30 deg., tilt 5 positions, up to 30 deg. left or right, moldboard is 1/2" x 6 inches - price $495

Landpride is more versatile - more postions including greater 30 deg tilt - $70 more expensive

Bush Hog is 23 lbs heavier and $70 cheaper

I will probably buy or make endcaps for grading. Is the 23lbs of weight enough to make a difference? One of my primary needs is to get the ditches on the road opened up. WIll the extra 30 deg help with that?

Thanks for any ideas.

Ed






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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-09-24          42854

My notion is that I rather have my box scraper plus hydraulic top-link than a more or less basic blade. If I bought a blade, I'd want a very fancy one but those are pricey. I wouldn't worry about 25 lbs. much. The availability of ready-made end-plates seems more important. You pretty much have to have end-plates to keep material on the blade for a lot of grading.

A 6' blade on a 5' tractor gives 6" outside the rear wheels. That's not much length for ditching unless the tractor can drive on the side of the ditch. I have a 6' box on a 5' tractor. The end-plates plus the short extension outside the rear wheels restricts my ditching to small drainage channels along my crowned drive. If I wanted to work the highway ditch, I'd have to drive in it, or have an offset blade (if such a thing exists).
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Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
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2002-09-24          42870

Get a box scraper. More functionality.
jim ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-09-25          42884

I'd also say that an inexpensive box scraper plus hydraulic top-link (which may not be exactly inexpensive) is more functional than blades around the same price. Inexpensive blades may not be very functional because they tend not to cut very well since they don't weigh much and they also lack scarifiers. On the other hand, a box can't move material to the side or cut side-grades without using the 3ph side-leveler.

However, I think that a fancy blade with end-plates will do everything an inexpensive box will do and then some. They may not have scarifiers, but then I only use mine if I have to cut sod (I don't have to contend with clay though). From that perspective, a blade might be thought of as more functional. Wish I had a fancy one but I'm unwilling to pay the price 'cause I wouldn't use the features for things I can't do easily with my box very often. It’s also possible to spend a lot on a box, but fancy boxes have features I’d need even less frequently.

I wouldn't think of a box without hydraulic top-link as very functional because I adjust the top-link very frequently during grading and often on the fly. Precise control of the blade angle is almost everything in getting a box to work well. Some hydraulic control on a blade might also be very helpful.
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Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
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2002-09-25          42887

get a box scraper. more functionality.
jim ....

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ereilly
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5 Applegate, Oregon
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2002-09-25          42906

Are you able to use a box blade to clean out or make new ditches effectively? Making and maintaining the ditches, along with light grading is the biggest job I have to do.

The other thing I am a bit concerned about is my skill (or lack of)in using the blade to hold steady when ditching. A box blade or straight blade with end caps can help even things out while grading, but how about ditching?
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Koby
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 16
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2002-09-26          42926

I am also in the market for a rear blade. I found the Land Pride RB1572 at my JD dealer for just under $400 (discounted, since I bought my tractor there). Does anyone know how effectively my 20 hp JD 4110 with loaded tires will pull a 6' blade, or should I stick with a 5'? I would like the extra width to cover my 48" tread even when the blade is angled. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-09-26          42927

I used my box to cut and maintain crowns on drives and what I would call swales rather than ditches along the sides. It worked just fine.

I can't make direct comparisons between boxes and blades since I don't have a blade. However, when I do hear people talking about ditching, it is usually with a blade. I don't think my box would be great at cutting larger steep sided ditches and I don't think I could maintain them unless I could drive with all wheels in the ditch. I think the tilt and offset features of blades advertised for 'light ditching' work better than boxes for that purpose.

I think grading is something of an art, and it does take awhile to develop the knack whether it's with a box or a blade. I do think that boxes are better and easier to use than blades for a lot of grading that is commonly needed. Perhaps more about technique later if there's interest.

I will say when I cut the drive crowns and swales with a box, I held the box at an extreme angle with the side-leveler. Probably less than a quarter of the blade length was in contact with the ground during the first cut. As I recall, the dirt tended to climb the blade and come out underneath the blade on top of the swale, which I think is desirable. The end-plate probably does help move the dirt up and out.

That sort of worked until the new grade got wider. With more of the blade cutting, dirt stopped moving along the blade very much. The box filled up, and I had to periodically move to the centre of the drive, dump the box to pickup later with the loader and then return to the grade. I don't know if a blade that could be angled slightly forward would keep the dirt moving up and out of the ditch for wider cuts than I could make with a box.
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MRETHICS
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 190 Star City, Indiana
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2002-09-26          42932

The Art of Gradeing for Dummies, hmmmmmmm. I bet it would sell.

Seriously, I sell lots of CUT's to first time buyers, and get lot's of aftersupper calls on just that subject.

The first thing one must have, is patience. It will almost always take longer than you think.

The other secrets, are harder to convey to the masses.

It involves what you want the finished product to look like, and what you have to work with. But you must be able to visualize what it should look like when you are done.

The dirt to be moved should be thought of in "layers". A "layer" is how much you can practically peel of with the equipment at hand, or a fraction of that on the finish grade. And make sure you keep speed as high as possible, but not so high as your equipment will bounce or chatter.

As an example, pull out a pen and paper. Take the pen, and draw a line on the paper, from side to side. Go the length of the entire paper(at least 7"), press as hard as you can, and move the pen as slow as you can, and do not support your elbow.

Next, make the same line, only move the pen swiftly, and pressing lightly, still leaving your elbow off the table.

Notice how the line that you used light pressure and swift speed has curves in it that are more broad and gentle, compaired to the line you pressed hard and moved slowly.

When gradeing, little bumps and dips, are sometimes very hard to deal with, and will even intensify as you make subsequent passes.

You must keep in mind that the layer you peeled off, and moved, could look at least 2/3 thicker before it is compacted.

In flat lands, always use the horizon as a referance. In hills, you must learn the lay of the land.

Gradeing is sculpting...with a tractor.....
How cool is that???? Pretty cool in my book.



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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-09-26          42936

Deere recommends a maximum 60" rear blade for a 4100/4110. Try measuring an angled blade to see if it spans 48 inches. ....

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AZMike
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2002-09-26          42950

I have a B7500 Kubota, weighs about 1400 lbs with no implements attached. I bought the Landpride blade, I believe it was the RBT-1560. It is an excellent blade and I use it for maintaining irrigation borders, which include a small ditch and a long windrow of dirt. My B7500 will pull the blade fine when I grade something, so long as it is not too hardpacked. If it is hardpacked as in a well traveled road, I need to rip it first. Neither my tractor nor the blade is heavy enough for real road grading. So I would not worry about 23 lbs.

For the ditches on my border, my tractor is too light to angle the blade and pull the ditches clean. I end up using the tractor like a dozer and going backwards. This method works fine making borders, but a mile of road side ditch cleaning would get old. However it will work!

My dealer let me try the tractor and the blade both before I bought to make sure it would do the job I needed. You might try asking also. Might save a big disappointment. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-09-27          42979

Good comment from Mike about a tractor being too light too angle the blade. Although mine goes over 3000 lbs, it has turf tires and I guess that might limit how much a blade could be angled as well. Traction and power problems can be managed to an extent by taking smaller cuts, by adding ballast and going slower. Usually additional passes are required, but it does work.

Many passes may be good for smoothing drives but most people probably want to drive a ditch once, and they probably don't want to spend time fooling with ballast. A trial might identify what will work best but just asking a dealer for a recommendation might be faster.

Something I'd keep in mind is that end-plates used to carry material on the blade adds to traction requirements. It takes quite a bit of traction to drag my 6' box with a full load of gravel even with the cutter adjusted to drag rather than cut. It's not uncommon that I can't drag a full box when I'm in deep uncompacted gravel. I suppose I could cure the problem with more ballast, but generally it just seems easier to go with smaller loads till I get it spread out more.

Another thing about end plates on a blade is that the ability to drag material in part depends on the weight of the blade, and blades generally are lighter than boxes. If the blade is too light ,a heavy load of material can cause the 3ph to float up and dump it. Weight, such as sandbags, can be added to blades but that's causes more stress on the 3ph mounts.

Generally I think that boxes are easier for grading work than blades, but that's in large part because they weigh more. The rear cutter also can useful although they don't turn tractors into dozers. 3ph's are designed to pull rather than push.
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Walt
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2002-10-11          43684

I have a Bush Hog 70-06 grader blade (510#, 6'). It has the same angle/tilt as the Land Pride you are looking at. I pull it with a 5310MFWD JD (55 PTO hp), 6,000# +, with loader and blade attached. The narrowest I can get my tractor with the wheels adjusted to the inside positions is 76" on rears due to fender scraping. If i go narrower (16.9 X 30 rear and 11.2 X 24 front), my tires will be too close to fenders. With the offset of this blade I have no trouble cutting ditches, crowning, terracing, etc., and I am still able to keep my wheels out of the ditch. Offset to max (leading edge foward) and with max tilt you will be contacting the surface with a small triangular section of the blade. subsequent passes will widen your contact area and when pulling the two sides of your road will bring the cut material to the center forming your crown. to smooth off turn your blade 180 degrees and drag it backwards. at this point is where I wish I had a box blade which is really a lot better at smoothing than a grader. I need a wider blade, but had the blade before the tractor. You should have no problem with the blade riding up like with a box blade because you can adjust the angle of cut so aggressively on the edge with the top link that it will bog your tractor as it pulls itself deeper. My only problem is although this blade is rated at 70 HP max, I have bent it into a curve and it is no longer straight along the edge. The blade you are looking at is rated 35(2WD), 30(4WD) max HP. I use this blade to cut drainage ditches, make terraces and maintaing roads on my timber land. It will also cut new roadways where none existed previously better than a box although not as smoothly. It gets a lot of use. This propery is 730 ac. with pine trees ranging in ages from 6 to 35 years old along with some mixed hardwood and about 60 ac. of open that are mostly for wildlife food plots. I am not convinced that you would not be better off with a box especially on the graveled road. If end plates are available you will need them for the gravel. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-10-11          43696

I think I was boosting a blade if I had ditching to do as well. However, I could buy almost two boxes for the price of a blade I'd want, and a lot of my work is maintaining gravel drives, which I think a box does better anyway.

A point about boxes I'll make is that they are intended to scrape rather than cut. Perhaps a small distinction, but the cutters on a box have quite a small angle to the ground compared to normal adjustments on a blade. Shortening the top-link can increase aggressiveness of the front cutter but the side plates restrict a very aggressive action on most surfaces. In addition, the fixed rear cutters of conventional scrappers also restrict how big of cut a scrapper will make. More aggressive cutting can be done with the rear cutter, but just don't hit anything while pushing with a 3ph.
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