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Hydraulic leaks

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Rick Cosman
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2001-02-19          24381

I had alot of work done including new Hyd oil and hoses. The ldr.and the Bhoe spool valves leak. Shop says he uses additive called Trans-X, sold at all Auto supplies. Claims it will not hurt anything and is worth a try before costly valve replacement. I am partial to additives and have had success with Risalone, and Marvel Mystery in older engines. I'm pretty gunshy about my tractor and I know how you experts caution about the purity and types of Hyd oil. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance. Rick

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2001-02-19          24383

IMHO (as an someone who has a fleet of 8-10 compacts working commercially) I would be VERY cautious, from the name it sounds like something intended for an automotive automatic transmission, which is a VERY different creature from the hydraulic system on your compact. You do not say whether your machine is Hydro. or Gear, but it does not really matter that much. The additive may contain friction reducing components that would have a very UN-desireable effect on things like clutches and brakes. Check directly with the manufacturer of 'Trans-X' and find out what their Tech's say FIRST, if it is not suitable, they may have another product that will work even better. Best of luck. ....

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Rick Cosman
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2001-02-20          24423

Thanks Murf. I tend to agree. My Tractor is a YM 336D with power shift. I called Mfg. tech serv. (as you said) and surprisingly they said they had heard from several customers on this appl. , even though it is not on the can. They said it is completely compatible with trac. hyd. oil.I may work up the guts to try it... I'll let you all know. Would you consider a big drop every 8 to 10 seconds from the hoe spool valve alot? Loader is much less, but I HATE LEAKS. Rick ....

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Murf
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2001-02-20          24426

Rick, if it is dripping at that rate, no I don't consider it bad, if on the other hand you were describing how many FEET AWAY from the machine it is landing, then..... "Houston, we have a problem!!" If the only leak is from the spool valve then I would suspect an "O" ring was nicked during the work-over, or just general failure. At any rate a minor leak from the valve itself is VERY easy (read cheap) to fix. I'm with you, ANY leak is enough to make me crazy. Best of luck. ....

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Ted Kennedy
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2001-02-20          24428

Rick, there is also a possibility that you have a leaking/stuck partially open check valve. Most hoes for compacts and utilities have a combined valve body made up from the spool sections that control each function. These sections have a common hydraulic flow and are sealed with O rings. Sometimes during repairs the O rings become damaged and leaks occur between the sections. Each valve usually has a check valve and I have seen several that had become stuck and weep a bit. This can cause a temporary loss of function like you described. Good news is they only cost a few bucks. When you introduce any additive to a fluid under pressure, that is constantly heated and cooled, some form of chemical change takes place, and not always for the best. I think the only sure way to seal a leak under pressure is to make a mechanical (gasket, O ring, pipe thread sealant, etc.) type fix. Additives eventually breakdown and the problem returns. Bite the bullet now before it bites you when you can least afford it. Good luck. ....

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Rick Cosman
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2001-02-20          24436

Ted & Murf Thanks again; I agree with the aditive advice. The O-ring sounds very likely. Ted mine is the in-series assmly. you describe. But honestly, I can't take that apart myself. This tractor was in rough shape when I bought it. I got it cheap, put some $$$ in it and it has revived to my expectations. I have followed all you experts on this board and learned alot. Just to carry this to the end I bought some Trans-X and label lists among others the following:Stops leaks from seals in Hyd. control systems, construction equip., Hyd. pumps.,lifts,and accumulators. Would this sway you guys at all? Sounds so good I may take a spoonful myself! Shotcut Rick ....

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Roger L.
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2001-02-20          24463

Rick, I am not really a fan of additives, thoughI agree with you on Rislene (Risalone?, Rislone? - how do you spell it?). It definitely fixed a sticky lifter in my chevy truck once. I like Marvel Mystery oil as well, though I don't think it has ever done anything positive except that the can looks so neat sitting on the shelf. I've also had luck with B&G's "posi-quiet" for slipping positraction and B&G diesel injector cleaner in my compact tractor's fuel. The posi-quiet gunk definitely worked; The injector cleaner might have helped....at least it didn't hurt.
Don't use any of these in your Yanmar 336D! Additives might be OK if the only thing rubber in the system was spool valve seals and hydraulic cylinders. And that may be the case on you backhoe if it is PTO powered. But your hydraulic oil for the loader not really hydraulic oil at all. It is trans/hydraulic fluied and probably in a common supply with the power shift transmission and the power steering. The power shift works by triggering a whole row of internal wet clutches in the transmission. You don't want to mess with their friction and engagement. Also, the power shift selector valve has lots of O rings and some rubber-faced valves. Hopefully you are scared enough now, so we don't have to mention the power steering........ :-)
I wouldn't be shy to try some sort of additive in the backhoe is it is the kind with a PTO-driven pump and separate reservoir....Wouldn't expect it to work, though....


....

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Ted Kennedy
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2001-02-21          24466

Rick, if you are looking for a go ahead, I just can't give it exactly for the reasons Roger has stated. The temptation is great to have a "fix-in-a-can" cure all, but I just don't like the idea of it flowing through the rest of your machine. While the additive may work OK on natural rubber or rubber based seals, there may be other compounds present in other seals/parts that won't take kindly to the additive. I'd try to locate another valve unit, used but in good shape, before I'd potentially harm the rest of the machine. However, if the hoe is a PTO unit, what the heck. And yes Roger, that red and black can of Mystery Oil sure does look good on the shelf! I've had mine in the family from the Korean War! ....

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TomG
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2001-02-21          24471

I have minor leaks around my loader control valves that are from fittings for the quick connects. I've tightened them till I'm worried about stripping threads. Pipe thread sealer probably would stop the leaks. There is a special type of sealer for hydraulic fittings, and I've had a tube for about a year. I don't like leaks either, and I don't suppose it's exactly to my credit that I put up with the leaks for several years. However, I guess all this is really incidental. What I actually wanted to say is that sealers used on hydraulic fittings should be specifically intended for hydraulic use. The use of Teflon tape isn't a good idea. Over-wrap of the tape on the inside of fittings can break off and end up clogging up something in the hydraulic system. ....

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Bird Senter
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2001-02-21          24472

TomG, I'll agree with you about overwrapping and getting any pieces of teflon tape in the system, but used properly, I see nothing wrong with it. In fact, that's what my dealer recommended and what I've done. ....

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Rick Cosman
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2001-02-21          24476

OK..OK! I get the message. Just wanted to see if you guys would hold your ground under pressure( no pun intended) But, I am going to try it in the Bhoe, sep. pump. Lastly, if I buy a new loader spool, should I get one with the third spool and handle for future top link hyd. operation? Wouldn't that save me a remote purchase off the p-beyond? BTW, I forgot to tell you that the shop uses Hyd oil from Walmart... and better buy your collector bottles of Mys. Oil as here in Phx. they've gone to plastic! Rick ....

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Murf
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2001-02-21          24482

Rick, as touched on by Ted and Roger, there is always the temptation to try the "fix-in-a-can". However, maybe as an engineer if I give you a little understanding of how such products work will make it a little clearer to you. An "O" ring works by creating a physical barrier between two parts, be they moving (as in a valve) or fixed (like between to segments of a valve body). Leaks are obviously caused by a gap where there shouldn't be one, this can be from old age, improper installation, or even debris in the sytem. The fit between the two parts is critical to create the right amount of friction WITHOUT causing distortion, which in itself would cause seal failure and a leak. The type of additive you are talking about works by introducing a chemical into the system which causes the seal to swell up, hopefully plugging the leak. The problem is that the product is "non-selective", ie it affects ALL material in the system equally, NOT just the 'bad' seal. It is sort of like pouring Diesel on your lawn, sure it kills the weeds and the insects, along with everything else. Now don't mis-understand me, I am a devout user of additives myself, but like anything else, "Use the right tool for the job". In this case the right tool is a wrench, replace the $2 "O" ring (albeit, it will be probably cost $50 for labour...) and spend your "additive" budget on something more appropriate, like some Amsoil 10W-40 for the engine ;->
Best of luck. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2001-02-22          24527

Bird, I agree. An understanding of the potential problem probably allows tape to be used safely. In addition, even my sealant probably isn't idiot-proof, because the directions say 'apply only to top half of threads'. Rick: a 3rd control valve for a rear circuit is a real good idea. It seems like most every 3ph implement around these days requires hydraulics, or has options that need hydraulics. It seems like it's real easy to outgrow a SCV assembly. If you're definitely getting a new SCV assembly, another valve or so doesn't add much to the cost. However, additional control valve sections are available for some assemblies, so additional outlets can be added after the basic installation. ....

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Rick Cosman
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2001-03-04          25002

I wanted to let all who helped me know the out come of my use of TransX . I did not put it in my tractors Hyd system. Thanks to all who stopped me and I agree. However... I did try it in the B/hoe which operates independently from its own PTO pump. If you remember the spool valve and the swing arm cylinder both leaked. I ran it for a couple of hours to work it in. A week later I returned with no expectations. To my amazment the swing arm has stopped leaking! It was leaking badly, sort of a drule like. The spool valve still leaks, maybe not as bad, maybe my imagination. I thank all who responded and I still won't put it in the tractor. ....

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