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Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2003-10-28          67393

I like Toyota's; have 4 in the family. Want to buy their p/u, but the competition is fierce. The new F150, the new Nissan Titan, the Silverado, all have the necessary features.
I am waiting to look at the Tundra crew cab, coming next week, but the lack of an engine option with some serious displacement concerns me. Don't know how Toyota expects to stay competitive with a small v-8 (they tried to make-do with a T100, and that didn't work). Has anyone heard whether Mr Toyota-san is coming to America with anything to match the competition?
jim


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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2003-10-28          67396

My Tundra runs like a scalded cat, even at a mile above sea level and more.

I can top the tallest passes around here (7000 feet) with a tractor in tow at 70 mph with some throttle left. It has had zero warranty claims at 1.5 years and 17k miles. I be a very satisfied customer. ....

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getrdun
Join Date: Oct 2003
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2003-10-28          67399

Jim I too looked at the Toyota when recently purchasing a new work truck. I have all the faith in the world in my 1986 toyota 165,000 miles an still going strong. you could through a cat threw the side of it,as rust has got the better of it. I recently Hauled a 100 landscape timbers in it,(you should have seen the boy's at LOWES) I've hauled 4 well rounded loads of dirt in the last 2 days. If they would just build a 10,000 to 12,000 GVW truck with 300hp an at least that much toqure I'd a bought one. I love my 2500HD Chevy with the Allison no complaints at 7700 miles but I'll bet it gives more trouble than my Toyota did in the next 157,300 miles. There is always a chance as Nissan is suppose to be coming out with a 300hp+ 9500 GVW truck by the first of the year or by Feb. We can only hope Getrdun ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2003-10-29          67430

That's an interesting point, especially since both Toyota & Nissan ALREADY build a truck in that range, they just don't bring them all to North America.

Mind you a 'pickup truck' as we know it is a 'western wonder', they don't exist in most other markets, the important European && Asian markets wouldn't buy our style of truck, they are of no use in congested ares, they have to be cab-over style vehicles.

In that aspect Toyota (under the Hino badge) and Mitsubishi bring really nice units over here. Mitsubishi even has a 2, 3 or 5 ton class available in 4wd. I have spoken to a few landscapers who have them and they wouldn'n plow snow with anything else now. The visibility and turning radius are fantastic compared to a regular pickup.

We have a Hino 3 ton which is a 'baby tractor' for hauling equipment around, it has a turbo-charged, intercooled 6 cyl. that puts out only 200hp but has gobs of torque, it is mated to a really nice 6 speed (with o/d) tranny which is a full syncro unit. It pulls a 35' float loaded with 20,000 lbs of equipment around like nothing. It is a dream on the highway.

It doesn't hurt that it gets 14 mpg with a loaded float, 16-17 mpg with an empty float, and 18 mpg bobtail either.

Best of luck. ....

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F350Lawman
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2003-10-29          67438

I think the real reason Toyota or other Japanese maufacturers don't have true heavy duty pickups is that the typical buyer in the important American truck market won't buy them. That is why the F-150 or some other 1/2 ton pickup is always the best selling vehicle despite the fact that the Japanese equivalents are available. Foreign cars have taken over many other segments but this one has remained strong for the domestic manufacturers. I think as you progress into the diesel and dual rear wheel segments a preference for domestic vehicles would be more of a factor. Even if they were available the average guy driving around in a 1 ton truck or better isn't likely to buy a Japanese equivalent if it was available.

There are still some ares of the market that prefer to buy from the American vehicle manufacturers. It may have a foreign engine, be built in a foreign country such as Mexico or Canada but they still want it to have an American badge. We like our redneck cadillacs :)

If you look at the consumer and commercial markets that 3/4, 1 ton and better pickup style truck area is huge and the vehicles aint' cheap. I could be wrong but the Japanese have succesfully entered just about every area of the vehicle market, there must be some reason the have never cracked this one. If they thought they could make $$$ they would have been there already. Even these new bigger Japanese trucks they are going to make aren't really after the same customers. Until they offer higher ratings, dual rear wheels, diesels, different beds, tons of space and luxury, etc. the competition is all domestic.

As far as why Americans drive our traditional style of pickup and others don't I think traffic congestion is only part of it. How many place in the world can the average "Joe" afford to drive a $40,000 pickup that gets around 10 miles a gallon just to go to Home Depot once a month and get some 2" x 4"s? :) :) ....

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Murf
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2003-10-29          67457

The following is offered only as a difference of opinion only, and NOT to be construed as antagonistic or of a personal slanderous nature.

Scott, people cant buy what isn't for sale.

You & I both live within a resonable distance of a 'big' city and probably have the choice of a dozen dealers of EACH of the 'big 3' truck makers. I would suggest that if there were that many Hino, Mitsubishi or Nissan Heavy truck dealers around the numbers would be very different.

Availability is critical to sales, that's why you don't see a Honda dealer in a small rural community, let alone one Honda dealer, one Toyota dealer, one Mazda dealer, one Subaru dealer and a Mitsubishi dealer for good measure. It is not uncommon however (around here anyways) to see two domestic dealers in a town of 1,000 people.

Just as with the recent Bombardier/JD alliance, it is easier to put someone else's name on it and put it their dealer's stores than to build a network from the ground up. The Chevrolet Corolla (Nova), the GM Samurai (Tracker) and Geo Aero (Firefly) are prime examples. In the medium truck market, the Mack Renault, Frieghtliner M.-Benz products, the GM (Hino) cab-forward, and the Brazilian Ford Cargo are just a few examples.

The consumer preference in North America for 'traditional' pickup trucks is best explained in two words, names actually, Henry Ford. That is what was invented first, that is what CREATED the market, and that is what still holds the biggest part of the market.

How many people say they blow their nose into a Facial Tissue, it's called a Kleenex, when you have a good breakfast you've 'had your Wheaties', and when you cut your finger you put on a Band-Aid not a "Eloastomeric Wound Dressing". In fact the Band-Aid is a good example of market saturation, so much so that the name is a now a term to describe something universally.

They build Japanese (or other nationality) 'pickups' with every bit as much power, capabilities and luxury as one of the Big 3 trucks.

I know because I have driven in some of them while overseas. In fact some of the best attributes of vehicles like Hummers came from foriegn offerings that have been in production forever. Talk about 4wd trucks outside of North America the words are Land Cruiser, Range Rover (wanna talk luxury) Unimog, Iveco and Mitsubishi.

They would laugh us silly if we showed up for a "safari" with an F-350.

Best of luck. ....

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F350Lawman
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2003-10-29          67459

We had a 70' something Toyota LandCruiser before they became suburban like vehicles. It was very nice and solid vehicle. Much like a CJ-7 with the rear seats facing each other rather than a typical front facing bench. Very solid body on the LC though unlike the CJs and the rust problems. Although I did love the CJ as well.

I brought up the 1/2 tons like the F150 to illustrate that even in the area of the market where the Japanese DO offer comparable vehicles the buyers seem to stick to the domestic versions. This "loyaly" has not been shown in other areas of the American car market but I think truck buyers are a little bit of a different animal.

I know many pickup owners and many will not consider Japanese even when they shop even for their 1/2 tons. There are exceptions to every rule but I think the typical American purchaser of a "work" truck tends to want to buy American when possible. This MAY be the reason the Japanese have not aggressively gone after the HD pickup market and even on the 1/2 tons they have failed to dominate as they have in other areas.

Time will tell but as you said, the Japanese for whatever reason haven't tried to compete in the HD truck area.

Guess we have to ask them why, maybe they've done some surveying of potential HD truck buyers??.

....

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AC5ZO
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2003-10-29          67461

F350,
Did your LC have that straight 6 engine in it. I seem to remember that they did pretty well with that. I used to run a Toyota SR5 in Baja Mexico and it was a tough truck.

....

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AC5ZO
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2003-10-29          67462

Murf, a number of the design engineers at Hummer came from Land Rover. ....

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F350Lawman
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2003-10-29          67466

Yes it did and it was a pretty strong motor. We had the hardtop and a softop for it. It was that beige, safari color w/ a black interior. Must have been about a 1970 or there about.

I do not consider the F-350 to be an off-road vehicle, more of a "get me down the muddy driveway or through the snow vehicle". 22' long and 8,000 lb.dually's are NOT suited for serious off-roading. You have to clear a forest to swing a U turn and they sink in soft stuff :( Also it ain't' fun being the biggest vehicle when you do get stuck it takes a commercial wrecker to free you! I suppose an F350 with agas motor(for less weight) in shortbed and regular cab would do well though.

The CJ and LC were great though, just not practical for my needs now. ....

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Peters
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2003-10-29          67467

I guess it does not seem like too much of a stretch to place a larger diesel in the Toyota pick up. There must be some other reason for the reluctance. I guess you would need the pickup sales break down of 5 to 7 years ago when they made their decisions on the truck line.
The last stats indicated that diesel sales are now near 50/50 in the N/A market.
Anyone ever have a 70's Nissan Patrol? The engine was similar to the 240's with longer strokes for increased torque. Looked much like the short wheel base Landcruiser. It had tons of power and the thing would spin all four wheels on dry pavement. Naturally we tore up a few. Saw one raced at the drag strip. Very respectable in 4 wheel drive. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-10-29          67471

Speaking only for myself, after my terrible Ford experiences (three in the last 10 years) and terrible GM experiences prior to that (four in the mid 70's to 90's)there is NO WAY I'd by another one of either of those brands. My next one will be a Dodge. I generally try to buy from the Big 3 but if I keep having bad experiences Toyota will have another customer.

The truck market is Fords/GMs/Dodges to lose and from what I can see they're doing a pretty good job of that. ....

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Chief
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2003-10-29          67477

Toyota makes a nice 4 cylinder diesel pickup. That was primarily all the vehicles I saw while I was in Honduras. Almost everything is diesel due to the limited availability of fuel and need for a reliable vehicle.

Part of the problem is that most folks just don't appreciate or like the table manors of a diesel and now more recently they are not able in some cases to comply with Tier II EPA requirements. Primarily NOX emissions.

I'll tell you what; after driving my Cummins I will never go back to a gas engine again. When the Sargeant Major's Ford Taurus finally poops out, we plan to get a VW TDI Wagon Passat or other diesel auto.

Heck, now that Scott has found my dream pickup truck in his photo pictures #8; I may just stop looking! ;-) ....

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Murf
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2003-10-30          67528

When we were working in the islands on one particular job it was about 10 miles to our rented house. The developers were building a brand new resort on a remote peice of beach and wanted to start on the golf course early because they were using up the surplus fill from the foundation to build hills, etc.

The truck they gave us for the commute was a Nissan Patrol Wagon, it was basically a Japanese version of the old full-sized Jeep Wagoneer, it was huge. It was powered by an 4 liter inline 6 cylinder diesel, mated to a 4 speed standard, it also had diff. locks on both axles, and the speedo only went to 80 kmh. (50 mph.). A couple of the young kids joked about it until one particular trip to the site after an all night torrential rain storm. That thing rolled down the 'road' (and I use the term loosely) through muck and slop that was so deep it was coming up the doors at times. I doubt we ever topped about 10 mph, but it made it.

The other memorable thing about it was the air conditioning system, it was obviously built for a tropical climate, the truck had no heater, just AC, and boy did it work. When we picked it up the first thing they did was start the engine and flip on the AC to full out. After about 5 minutes of idling someone noticed frost accumulating on the windshield, considering it was above 90 out that was quite a feat.

Best of luck. ....

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Chief
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2003-10-30          67529

Murf I saw 1,000's of those Nissan Patrol Wagons when I was in Saudi Arbia and Kuwait. Very nice vehicles and the A/C was great! Wish they would import something like that to the States. The Saudi's liked the Suburbans because of the huge size and 454 engines but they were not all that reliable. I usually ended up with the good ole' Army issue 1 each "Duce 'n half" aka the 2 1/2 ton truck with a Continental Multifuel inline 6 diesel engine manual transmission, NO power steering. (good for building Popeye arms ;-) Every once in a great while I got to drive the new 5 ton truck with the Cummin C series 8.3 litre and Allison automatic. The fastest trucks were the HEMMMT's. They had a turbo-super charged Detroit 8V-92 engine. The soldiers would disable the govenor and they would do a bit over 90 mph. ....

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Art White
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2003-10-30          67538

I hated it when International stopped building trucks. They didn't help themselves at all when they tried to break into the auto truck crazyness in this country and thats what the bulk or most all veicles we build in this class but a heavy weight car. No american manufacturer today builds a decent small pickup or to be more specific work truck. I remember when I got out of the service and was sent on an errand to pick up 27 square of shingles and the stuff to install. Thinking that was 27 bundles I went after them with my favorite heavy 3/4 ton Internationa pick-up. While two pallets of shingles plus later, a couple of buckets of tar a bunch of rolls of felt paper was the load. Try and do that today with a 3/4 ton pick-up. Don't get me wrong, I would have had to think about it for a few seconds or so if a good looking girl would have been hitchhiking where other wise she would have been in the truck in a heart beat, but I drove away at 55 for my 17 mile journey home. ....

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AC5ZO
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2003-10-30          67542

I guess that I have just had better luck. I have a 92 GMC K2500 that keeps working hard. It has the 350 gas V8.

I don't know how much a couple of pallets of shingles weighs, but I have had LOTS of metal in the back of my truck. It does not take a lot of sheet and formed steel to weigh well over a ton. I suspect that I may have had 3000 or more in it from time to time. There have certainly been times where there was little or no rear suspension travel left.

The truck has been to Baja Mexico to the races twice and has always been reliable. The AC is not working on it now, but I have been having trouble with rodents and coyotes lately getting into it, so I suspect that I will find a chewed wire. The truck looks rough, but it runs fine. I don't know what I would buy if I needed to replace it. ....

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Peters
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2003-10-31          67681

I really have not had nothing but Fords. except for my latest Dodge. For work trucks it is hard to get any truck without carpet etc.

One of the toughest trucks were the early 70's Dodge. A friend had one in the north with the slant 6, club cab and long bed. He was a gravel truck contractor so the thing carried a 150 gallon diesel tank in the back all the time. He constructed logging roads in the west coast so it was up and down mountains its whole life on the worst roads. He had bought it with the idea of converting it to a diesel after the gas engine dropped out as the Ford tractor diesel would drop in. Last I saw it it was still trucking with near 300K on the clock could not kill the slant 6. ....

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greenhornet
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2003-11-14          68724

I'm another happy Toyota Tundra owner. Bought it in May 2000 and I have 50k on it now. I pull a 16' flatbed trailer with various loads,ie 5000 lb D John Deere tractor, a 26' fifth-wheel camper. I get 10 to 12 mph with the camper and have run out of punch going up hill on the hills south of St Louis on I-44 when traffic caused me to lose momentum at the foot of the hill. I get 19 mph with open bed and tail gate up, and 22 mph with a cab high camper shell. I love the truck. As strange as it may seem the competition was a Ford 250. I chose the Tundra because of the silky smooth drive train, knowing I would put more miles on it w/o a trailer than with and knowing it would handle the loads I might tow.

The dealer tells me that a 1 ton model is in the offing for next year. This could make things very interesting. They apparently are in the truck market to stay. ....

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DRankin
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2003-11-14          68737

Speaking of one tons. I have been feuding with the local United Rental.

Even though the Tundra is rated for a 7000+ pound tow load they absolutely refuse to rent me anything with two axles.

Just yesterday I went there to get a dump trailer to haul firewood. The trailer had a max GVWR of 7000 pounds and I had no intention of loading it anywhere near that figure.

They refused to rent to me, saying I had to have a 3/4 ton truck. I offered to show them the owners manual and they said it was sales hype and wouldn't believe it anyway.

I asked for a written policy stating the definition of 3/4 ton truck and they got real mad and told me to come back when I had 8 bolts on each wheel.

My parting shot was to ask what they were going to do when the first Nissan Titan (9000+ pound tow rating)owner came through the door. They replied if it is a Ford, Dodge or Chevy and starts with a "2" it is ok, ANYTHING else is a 1/2 ton and doesn't leave with any tandem axle trailer.


It really ticked me off because I have been cutting firewood for a month into 80-100 pound chunks, planning to use the FEL and a dump trailer to get it home. Now I am humping big chunks up and over the side of the pick-up and unloading it by hand.

We will see if Toyota puts more than 6 lug bolts on each wheel. That is what these idiots think constitutes a 3/4 or one ton truck. Lunatics!
....

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kwschumm
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2003-11-14          68739

They sound like wackos. I don't understand why they just don't have you sign a release and take your money. ....

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Chief
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2003-11-14          68740

Mark, what is the GCVWR for your Tundra? That may be what the limiting factor is. If the trailer exceeds this rating, I bet the rental guys are afraid of being sued if you have an accident. In this sue happy country we live, can you blame them.

I bet your Tundra could do just fine with a tandem axle trailer just as long as you did not get too carried away with the weight. I can tell you from my experience pulling a load of fire wood in my 14' Ja Mar tandem axle that it gets pretty heavy. Probably approaching at least 8500 lbs. or more with wood stacked even with the top of the trailer sides (about 24" high). The weight can really fool you. I can definitely feel the weight back there even with my Cummins powered Ram 2500. The dump trailer does make life VERY pleasant. ;-)......... try loading and then unloading & stacking a 2 cord trailer load. Takes forever! The guy I cut firewood with is gonna be working on building a dump trailer for next year. ;-) ....

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AC5ZO
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2003-11-14          68750

I agree with Mark and Ken. These guys sound like wackos and for me it would be time to find a new rental place. I will bet that they would not hesitate to rent me a jack hammer if I was digging next to a gas line. ....

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Chief
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2003-11-14          68755

Good point Mike! LOL! ;-) Was just presenting the devil's advocate option. Should not make any difference what truck you have within reason as long as you bring the trailer back in original condition. ....

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Murf
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2003-11-14          68758

The other point to consider is something we call the "full rule". The problem is it is far to tempting to fill something to capacity, whether it's our stomachs, trucks or a rented trailer.

If in this case we do a little thumbnail calculating here's the way it looks from the rental yards point of view. Let's say a dump trailer has a box which is 7' wide, 12' long and 4' deep (including side boards), that is 336 cubic feet, or the equivalent of a little more than 2.5 cords.

I don't know about the wood in your neck of the woods, but around here green hardwood is about 4 tons a cord. At that rate the trailer full would be about 10,000 pounds, if the trailer weighed another 2,000 pounds we're now up to a 6 ton load.

Things add up fast, I don't know how often I've seen a 1/2 ton with fresh cut wood heaped up above the box rails and the rear bumper almost dragging on the blacktop.

Best of luck. ....

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AC5ZO
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2003-11-14          68761

I guess that my problem is that I don't want to see the yard's point of view. I want them to tell me if they have what I want, tell me how much it costs, make me sign the forms giving up all of my rights to sue them and entitling them to sue me into oblivion for scratching their trailer, hook the damn thing up and let me get on my way. If they cannot do business that way, I will move on.

Randy, there was no offense intended and apparently none taken. I must be getting old and curmudgeonly. These rental guys would drive me right up the wall.

I see such things as the retirement of common sense. We have zero tolerance policies because administrators cannot use common sense to make a decision or are afraid of making any decision that might offend anyone. We have political correctness because so many people define themselves in special interest groups that someone is always going to be offended by anything that you say or by the way they interpreted an extrapolated meaning. Soon, I will have to rent an 8 ton trailer and a UniMog to carry my CUT to make sure that I don't overload the thing.

I know that I have had 4000# of steel plate in the back of my GMC 2500. You don't even get to the top of the wheelwells for that much steel. The rear end was low, but I took it easy, drove slow, and did not make any fast turns. To me this is basic common sense. I may have been pushing the limits when I put a Bridgeport Mill in the back of my old Toyota SR5, but again I drove slow, and the hardest thing was getting the mill out, not getting it to its destination.

Off topic, I know. I still think that Mark should be able to rent any trailer that he can reasonably pull behind his Tundra and the rental yard should not be making "marginal" calls or defining hard rules based on US brand trucks and designation numbers. I bought my own 2 axle 10K trailer. I have guys with CUTs that want to borrow it to move their tractors; probably because they couldn't get one from the rental yard. ;-) ....

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Peters
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2003-11-14          68768

I guess some of the confusion at the rental yard is our terminology.

I had always called a 1/2 ton pickup and thought that was its payload. Older pickup were close to that and Chevy offered the C10 in a full size. The new NA trucks are all at least 1500 lb payloads, F150, C15, D1500. My Ford F150 with the tow package would tow 8000lbs I believe.

What he is really looking for is a ton and a quarter 2500 lb. load rated pick up.

My Ram 3500 has a payload that is closer to 4000 lbs. ....

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Chief
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2003-11-14          68771

No offense taken Mike. ;-) I think in this day and age of sue happy people and too many lawyers they may have the same fear a bar tender has. It is the drunks responsibility not to drive after drinking, NOT the bar tender's. I suppose perhaps they may have been sued already. You never know. I agree with you on the abdication of personal responsibility in this country. People are suing McDonalds for getting fat eating there for Pete sakes!!!! ;-)

Back to the wood and trailer. If you just fill up the trailer just below the tops of the sides with wood; you are gonna have a HEAP of wood and a LOT of weight. Hope you don't have to go far or up many hills. That can really be tough on the tranny. Just have to make sure you distribute the wood's weight evenly in the trailer and keep the tongue weight reasonable. ....

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Chief
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2003-11-14          68773

Mark, I think if you showed up in that "Power Man's Truck", I bet you can take anything on the lot. ;-) I think that is when I would tell him, I'm taking my business to his competitors. ....

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greenhornet
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2003-11-14          68797

Mark I think that Toyota Motor Corp. might be interested to know how their vehicles are regarded by this rental firm. I think it might be interesting to write a letter to them outling your experience and see what happens. ....

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DRankin
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2003-11-15          68814

Chief: I wish there were competitors. It's about 25 miles to another rental yard and he counts lug nuts too. Says it's the insurance that makes him do it.

So you can drive into these places with a 60's something PU with a smoking straight six, 3 on the tree, drum brakes on all four corners and bias ply tires and 8 lug nuts, and drive out with a two axle trailer, no questions asked.

And they refuse to rent to the following.

Tundra numbers:
Curb weight........ 4262
Payload............ 1938
GVRW.................6200
Towing capacity..... 7200
GCWR.............. 11,800 ....

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DRankin
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2003-11-15          68819

Murf, I think the four tons per cord number is pretty close.

I have been hauling about 1/5 of a cord at a time in the Tundra (6 feet of bed space, stacked bed high), and that sets it down on it's overload springs. I'm guessing that is 1500-1600 pound load. ....

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Chief
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2003-11-15          68825

OK, here is a "Rough" calculation of your scenario:


Tundra numbers:
Curb weight........ 4262
Payload............ 1938
GVRW.................6200
Towing capacity..... 7200
GCWR.............. 11,800


The chart does not say what cotton wood weighs per cord but let's estimate 5,000 lbs and 2,000 lbs. for a tandem axle dump trailer. Let's figure about 1.5 cords per trailer load. The wood would weigh 7,500 lbs. and with the trailer that comes to 9,500 lbs.

Adding in the curb weight of your truck; this totals out at 13,762 lbs. Which would put you 1,962 lbs. over your GCVWR.

Even if you reduced the amount of wood to the exact amount of 7,538 lbs. (which puts you right at 11,800 lbs. GCVWR); you still have to deal with tongue weight. Recommended tongue weight to maintain trailer stability (keep sway & high speed wobble to a minimum) is 5% - 8%. I would suggest the higher limit of 8% with that much weight but that puts you over your tongue weight limit of 500 lbs. so lets use 6.5% which comes to 490 lbs.

You could pull this load but you are at the ragged limits of your trucks ability. I can tell you from personal experience that pulling this much weight up much of any type of hill is EXTREMELY taxing on your automatic trans. (take a look at the boat and tow rig I have in my pics) On hills with my boat in tow pulling with my old K2500 Suburban with the 4L80E trans. & 4.10 gears; I would be down to 30 mph with the peddle to the floor in second gear. The trans. would get VERY hot (inspite of a Mag-Hytek trans pan, synthetic trans oil, and 2 trans oil coolers.

If they want to play ball that way. Rent their sigle axle trailer and load it up as high as you can stack it. You should still be able to get a damn heavy load of wood on it and not be so hard on your truck. Alot of folks think my truck was huge over kill for what I do with it but they never tow like I do. I pull a full trailer of fresh cut oak when I am cutting which comes to nearly 1.5 cords. I can tell you that it IS HEAVY. Use 4 lo if you go off pavement to unload the trailer. It is MUCH easier on the rig.

The Toyota Tundra is a nice truck Mark. Just don't want to see you damage it. When I first started cutting fire wood, I was astonished at how much it weighs. I don't load my trialer up like I used to now that I realize how much weight is had on the trailer (over 11,000 lbs. in some cases).

Here is a chart to help estimate wood weights:


....


Link:   Weight of Wood

 
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DRankin
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2003-11-15          68832

I'm just tired of handling each piece several times and I would be happy just to haul 1/2 cord at a time.

My plan would have been to put about twice as much wood in the trailer as I can get in the truck. That would have given me a 5000-5500 pound tow load, about all I care to haul on a ball hitch. ....

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Chief
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2003-11-15          68833

I hear ya brother! Cutting it, loading it, unloading it, splitting it, reloading it, unloading it at the point of sale. Being able to load it in the trailer the 1st time with a FEL and unloading with a dump trailer sure does save some sweat and aching back! ;-) ....

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lbrown59
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2004-10-10          98029


1* I like Toyota's; have 4 in the family.
2*The new F150, the new Nissan Titan, the Silverado
Jim on Timberridge
===============================================================
1*4 Toyotas or 4 family members?
2*I wouldn't trade 1 Toyota for one each of these.
....

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lbrown59
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2004-10-10          98033

Hain't my neighbor licky?
He can get free firewood next door?

....

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lbrown59
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2004-10-10          98058


So you can drive into these places with a 60's something PU with a smoking straight six, 3 on the tree, drum brakes on all four corners and bias ply tires and 8 lug nuts, and drive out with a two axle trailer, no questions asked.
DRankin
===============
3 on the tree is a new one to me.
I had 2 Convertables like that.One was a 1960 Chevy Impala with 3 duces and high speed cam.
The other was a 1971 Chevy Cheville Malilibu.
Back then those with 4 on the floor were the hot ones,but that didn't bother my Impala.It would do 55 in 100 feet on the first limb of the tree.IE first gear. ....

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lbrown59
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2004-10-10          98059



So you can drive into these places with a 60's something PU with a smoking straight six, 3 on the tree, drum brakes on all four corners and bias ply tires and 8 lug nuts, and drive out with a two axle trailer, no questions asked.
DRankin
===============
This is just another example of a business not knowing enough about their business to be in that business.
Anyone like that has no business being in the business.
Two of the worst businesses like that are banks and insurance companies.

http://consumers.creditnet.com/straighttalk/board/showthread.php?s=&postid=410243#post410243]

....

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