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06 07 4 Cyl 4WD Tacoma opinions wanted

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2006-12-11          137853

I have been thinking about getting a new vehicle for quite awhile. Since my Ranger has decided to start dying in traffic for no particular reason (without leaving a code behind) it's time to buy a new truck. For me the perfect truck would be small, reliable, and diesel (or at least get great mileage). Unfortunately nobody makes such a beast so I'm leaning towards a 4 cylinder 5 sp. 4WD Tacoma. I rarely have a need to tow or haul heavy loads and figure on those occasions other arrangements can be made. Anyone have any reason why this would be a bad choice? A purchase is probably two months away since I want to sell a couple of other vehicles first so I'll have a hefty down payment.

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earthwrks
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2006-12-12          137876

The Jeep Liberty is available in diesel. Have you considered a "green" vehicle? I've heard there were tax credits for them too which might make them viable. ....

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kwschumm
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2006-12-12          137877

I do need a truck around here for hauling larger items. Does any manufacturer sell "green" trucks here in the states? I'd love to have the Tacoma V6 but after running the numbers just can't seem to justify it. The V6 would cost an extra $2k up front and another $500/year for gas over the I4. As seldom as the extra power would be needed doesn't seem worth it.

When shopping for a new car for my wife we looked at the diesel Liberty. The dealer said they were disappointed with the mileage it was delivering (low-mid 20's). ....

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DRankin
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2006-12-12          137879

When I go vehicle shopping I just go to the Toyota dealer. Drive right past all the rest.

As far as gas mileage, I have no doubts that a Tacoma with a 4 cyl and a stick will do better than the diesel jeep.

As far as hauling goes....new Tacomas are about where the Tundras were 4 years ago ....

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earthwrks
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2006-12-12          137880

I read that about the Liberty, but they said it had great torque though. Shoot my Cummins Ram can get 27mpg at 45 (12.4 pulling itself and 15,000lb. trailer through the mountains), but new it's was in the mid $40's too.

I worked for a company that was making car-length composite battery trays for a consortiom of GM, Ford and Chrysler. The ones we were making I thought were for a Ranger derivative as I used to see many of them running around Dearborn, MI.---whether it went to production remains to be seen. Dodge is suppose to have a dual fuel truck out (what exactly that entails not sure). You might be able to get a worktruck trim level (stripped down) truck with a diesel. Or buy a used one. There's also propane conversions too for gassers, and propane injection for diesels. ....

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hardwood
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2006-12-12          137881

Earth; When you say Green do you mean flexfuel for 85% ethanol? If so when I was shopping for a pickup there seemed to be plenty of Chevys available with that option here in the midwest, but maybe not in other regions. I looked at a couple rice burners, but decided to stay loyal to a U. S. made one. Chevy did have some real attractive rebates that helped swing the deal too. I looked at the Colorado, but the cab was a bit tight for a fat man and the sticker price wasn't enough lower than a fullsize to make it very attractive. Frank. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2006-12-12          137883

Ken,

When you say "small, reliable, and diesel (or at least get great mileage)." What kind of mileage are you looking for and how small is small? I get about 22 to 23 mpg around the local area and about 24 to 26 mpg highway if I take it below 50 mph. Mileage drops to about 18 mpg for heavy towing. I have the quad cab short bed 2002 Dodge Ram 2500 4WD. It is not exactly small but it is about the same size as a typical pickup and I like the idea of having about 7500 lbs. of steel wrapped around my family and I while driving around the idiots on the road nowadays. ....

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kwschumm
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2006-12-12          137884

The 4 cyl. Tacoma is rated for about 21-23 mpg. The six is more like 16-19. As the Tacoma has bloated the mileage has dropped considerably. I wish it were the smaller size that it was back in the mid 90s since I like driving a smaller truck. Easier to park and they fit in the garage with room to spare. I won't buy another Ford or GM due to bad previous experiences. A Dodge Cummins would be great but it's $10k more and larger than I'd like to drive. The power/weight ratio of the 4 cyl. Tacoma is about the same as my Ranger which seems sufficient. I'd actually like an auto tranny (easier on the back) but the 4 is probably too gutless for it and the six takes too big a mileage hit. ....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2006-12-12          137885

I've heard that Chrysler is going to be coming out with some small diesels soon for SUV's and their 1/2 ton and smaller pickup trucks. They are a Daimler design. Don't know how soon.

Pearl Harbor day has been 12/7 every year since 1941. I still hold a grudge. ....

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AnnBrush
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2006-12-12          137886

But it's OK to buy German? ....

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kwschumm
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2006-12-12          137887

The Ranger I am driving now is basically a Mazda. ....

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Chief
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2006-12-12          137890

Ken,

It looks like both Toyota and Nissan are folling in Ford's footsteps to buy junk engines to put in their pickups although both have put their heavy duty pickup introductions on hold. If they were smart, they would go with the 3.3 liter Cummin 4 cylinder or maybe even a John Deere 5030E 5 cylinder diesel. Ever since International came out with the 6.0 liter in the Ford trucks, I have avoided them. Their DT466 is a great engine but can't say the same for their 6.0. ....


Link:   Engine maker torqued about chance of getting big Japanese truck makers

 
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Blueman
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2006-12-12          137893

When I worked for FOMOCO 20 years ago, Ford made a Ranger pickup that had an available 59 HP 2.2L Mazda diesel. They couldn't give them away. It got over 40MPG highway. I'd love to have one now, but between the EPA and the auto manufacturers unwilling to take a risk, we won't see one any time soon. I'd pay a premium for a compact pickup with a small diesel in it...ARE YOU LISTENING Ford???? ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2006-12-12          137899

In 1980 or 81 I bought a Datsun pickup with about 60 hp diesel. Only drove it about 80k and sold it. Only problem with engine was it could not swim. Seems they put the air intake about 10 inches lower on the diesel than the gas.

The engine did a great job for me. Mileage was in the 32 or so range. Did pull a trailer with a Ford 601 tractor and rotary cutter. Way overloaded. That is when I learned about springs and brakes and such on tow vechile.

Now the body, a bean can was stronger.

As to the engines in Toyota Tundra, my 2004 will pull very well and runs great. I am very pleased with it. ....

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kwschumm
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2006-12-12          137903

Blueman, diesel engine technology has come a long way in the last 20 years. My brother worked in the transportation department at a major utility company. Years ago they used to joke that diesel engines were an excellent way to turn perfectly good diesel fuel into smoke and noise. They don't joke about that much anymore. ....

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Blueman
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2006-12-12          137904

K, I couldn't agree with you more, I owned a VW TDI that was quiet, efficient, and if you consider the CO put out getting 45-50 MPG, I would even call it "Green". But you will notice, that even though VW never had to offer incentives on their TDI's, they can't import them this year with the change to the new fuel. I will be surprised if Ford or GM offer a diesel in a compact, or even a 1/2 ton pickup within the next year or two. I'm certain they would sell, and I would be one of the first buyers! ....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2006-12-12          137906

Ann:

The Germans accepted a military defeat at the end of WWII while Hitler was the cause and many of his followers spent prison time for their attrocities. The Japanese accepted a military defeat but culturally never accepted this. They intended to defeat the entire world's economy instead, however long it took. Things were going good for them until a few years ago when other 3rd world countries began to produce goods cheaper than them. Their economy has suffered since. The Japanese are elitists that feel they are superior to other races. They by culture will steal the socks off anyone including family members even when they are bowing and smiling. This holds true for most of the Pacific Rim cultures. ....

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kwschumm
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2006-12-12          137907

Randy, even though it's out of the budget I went to Edmunds dot com to look at the Dodge 2500. What's with the body styles? It looks like they don't even offer an extended cab anymore, only a regular cab and a quad cab (and something called a mega-cab which looks like a quad cab to me unless edmunds screwed up the pics). ....

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Chief
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2006-12-12          137908

Ken,

The Dodge 2500 trucks that had the extended cab like you are thinking about were manufactured from 1998 to 2002. In 2003, there was a new body style change and 4 full doors became the new Quad cab, then came the Mega Cab in 2005. My truck is a 2002 and it has the suicide type doors for the rear seat. Not a lot of room back there but, 3 people can squeeze in. I bought the 2002 model because it was the last year made in this body style and the engines from 2003 on up are common rail diesel. The older generation 24 valve Cummins diesels have a few problems of their own such as the fuel lift pump, but that can be remedied with a few reasonably price mods. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2006-12-12          137913

I've got the '03 Ram with the H.O. Cummins, 4x, and quad cab with "normal" non-suicide doors. I've slept in the rear seat lying down in a fetal position when I had to.

I looked at the the Mega cab---oh--my--gawd---the space is unbelievable! The seats fold down into a bed! And there is storage space BEHIND and UNDER the seats too!

I haven't had one probelm with mine in 3-and-a-half years enginewise. The front suspension, well that's a different story. I had a snow plow and that chewed up about $3000 in warranty work on front rotors, bearings, tie rod ends and upper and lower ball joints. Yikes! But now that I'm a redneck...er..."rankee" (copyright) (that's one part redneck, 10 parts yankee) and sold the plow--I should get a lot of wear out of her now.

Also, if you plan on driving/buying an '02 and later 4x Ram look for a loose or worn out track bar. About $120 (used to be $400)---it keeps th chassis in line with the front axle, and when loose the truck will wander all over the road. I'd saty away from any lifted 4x too as the lift usually makes the track bar wear out faster, unless it was done properly. Some Jeeps use the same set up, and some Jeep Cherokees have one in front and back. ....

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kwschumm
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2006-12-12          137921

The size of that quad cab is way bigger than I want, which pretty much leaves Dodge out. If the Tacoma is bigger than I want any full size would be too big. I'm curious to know how many 4 cylinder Tacoma owners wish they had opted for the six. Another advantage of the four is that it has a timing chain, not belt, so no 60k timing belt changes will be needed. ....

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yooperpete
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2006-12-13          137933

A friend of mine has a Tacoma quad cab 4 x 2 with 6 cylinder with super-charger. He likes it and said mileage is in the low 20's but uses premium gas. Personally, I don't care for it and am not impressed with the interior, etc. Must admit my bias against it though!

The super-charger is working nearly all of the time during acceleration and has a whining noise similar to the noise in your 4 x 4 transfer case when in low range. You can't hear the radio then and most of the time without the volume being quite loud. ....

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kthompson
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2006-12-13          137934

KW,
Have you looked at Mitsubishi and Mazda? Just driving by their lots I think they offer the compact pickup. Have no idea on engines. Have no idea on price or quality. ....

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kwschumm
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2006-12-13          137935

KT, the Mitsubishi is basically the same truck as a Dodge Dakota. Since the local Mitsubishi dealer went belly-up a year or two ago I'd go with Dodge for that truck, but it gets pretty poor mileage and mediocre consumer ratings. The Mazda is the same as a Ford Ranger (which is what I'm getting rid of).

Yooper, that's not a factory supercharger is it? I didn't see that on the option sheets. I know what you mean about interiors. Our Toyota Highlander has non-intuitive funky controls and terrible seats. The seats are so bad that I'm looking at aftermarket replacements, but that's hard because of the built-in side airbags. Tacoma's seats are much better (I wonder if those would fit into the Highlander? Hmmm.) ....

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DRankin
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2006-12-13          137936

Toyota Racing sells dealer installed superchargers.

It might be an attractive option if one lived in Leadville, CO

Not sure how much boost one would get at sea level. ....

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yooperpete
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2006-12-13          137937

Ken:

As far as I know it is a factory super-charger. His truck is several years old. I'm going to see him tomorrow at lunch and will quiz him.

Here in Michigan, Cheverolet is selling some 2007 "Plain Jane" 1/2 ton pickups. Some 4x2's with regular cabs, 6 cylinders, no power doors locks nor windows are selling new for $11,400.00. They also sell some in 4x4 for slightly more. ....

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Murf
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2006-12-13          137938

A flying buddy of mine built himself the ultimate truck, but then he has his own machine shop too.

He bought a low mileage Toyota that was an insurance write-off, it was stolen and stripped. Mind you all they took to make it a write-off was the airbags, seats and wheels and rims.

He then sold the engine and tranny for more than he paid for the whole truck, then he implanted a VW diesel from a TDI Jetta that had been rear-ended while parked on the side of the road. The driver had run it out of fuel on the highway and was thumbing it for some fuel when it got hit.

He had some screwing around to make up things like mounts and bell housing, but he did it just fine. I believe he said it has the 5 speed out of a late 80's Toyota diesel p/up and the gears in the diff. were swapped out, again I think they are from another Toyota, maybe TRD special stuff??

At any rate, he sure is happy with what he ended up with.

Best of luck.



....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2006-12-13          137939

The whining sound from the supercharger can probably be interpreted as either noise or music to your ears. After I turbocharged my VW Scirocco in 1980 the sound of the turbo spooling up really got the adrenaline going. ....

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kthompson
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2006-12-13          137941

KW, Mitsubishi is basically the same truck as a Dodge Dakota.
I did not know that.
I had a Dakota a few years ago and it was all Dodge, at least the best I knew. I got very good service from mine, V 6 with 5 sp manual.

I did know Mazda made the Ranger years ago, but things change. ....

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Peters
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2006-12-13          137942

Murf is there no small diesel commercial truck sold in NA? I know we discussed the Hino's a while back, but it seem they are just selling 8 ton and up now. I can not see the Daihatsu's sold legal here, but is there other makes that have slipped in? This might be an option for Ken. ....

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DRankin
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2006-12-13          137943

Ken.... looks like the Highlander is not on the list.

Probably because of that sideways Camry engine........ ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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DRankin
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2006-12-13          137944

But now that I look closer, I see some earlier Camry's on the list. ....

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kwschumm
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2006-12-13          137945

Interesting that toyota makes those available for the tuner crowd. Not something I'd want to do these days but 25 years ago I would have been all over it if I wasn't into German cars. If given the choice I'd still be driving a German car - those things are usually just plain fun to drive. With tight handling the driver becomes "one with the road". ....

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kthompson
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2006-12-13          137946

KW,
You want diesel,
Green power was a suggestion,

So if you take the first line and add the second line you come up with JD. So find a pickup body you like and put in a JD diesel for the GREEN power. Forgive me...just added up for me. (reading about Murf's friend pk helped). :)

The options could be endless...

....

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Peters
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2006-12-13          137947

My dad's old time trucker friend in Terrace had that idea. He bought one of the first club cab dodge pickup in the early 70's. It had the slant six in it and he planned to run it until the six died and then trans plant a diesel from a Ford tractor. He had learned the mounts would line up. Naturally the slant six had 250,000 miles on it the last time I saw it.
A friend bought a newer wrecked Ford and transplanted the running gear into a 38 Chev cabover. Nice but certainly out of most of our budget. I am sure he has 100K into it. I took pictures the first day he had it out in the summer but they never turned out.
Years ago a friend took a Mercedes diesel and trans planted it into a 53 Chev 5 window pickup. Not much power but it was the first pick up I saw with 35 mpg on the highway. ....

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Murf
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2006-12-13          137948

There used to be a guy that I saw every now and then at the feed mill, he lived up-country a ways and travelled around making sales calls, no clue what it was he sold though.

He had an older heavy 3/4 ton 2wd Ford pickup, the intersting part was the drivetrain, he had a 6 cyl. Duetz air-cooled engine out of a combine or something in it, he had it mated to two trannies in a row. Apparently the second tranny was only used in 2 gears, sort of like high and low range in a semi-truck. I'm told it wasn't exactly a rocket off the line, but it rolled down the road just fine when under way.

Way back when he was getting 30+ mpg out of it, and had rebuilt most of the truck as the mkileage racked up.

Bet it sure was cheap though!!

Best of luck. ....

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kthompson
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2006-12-13          137949

I worked for a manf. that used Duetz as an option. At high rpms running such as hyd they did fine. Boy, when you went to drive off, a 3 year old on a trike would pass you. No torque. Well compared to Cat, Cummins or Detroit. ....

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Peters
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2006-12-13          137957

Old Baird the guy with the 53 Chev also had about #1 or 2 Mercedes diesel car. It was prewar and has near a million km when I last saw it. Mercedes supplied parts just to keep it on the road. The medallions basically filled the tiny grill. I doubt old Baird knew what performance was on the road, although he claimed to be a pilot in Korea and broke both legs in a crash. He walked with a limp so who knows. Maybe he decided he wasn't going to travel that fast again, both vehicles had a hard time keeping up with traffic. ....

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kwschumm
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2007-01-02          138430

I went to the dealer today and drove a few Tacomas. The 4 cyl 4x4 was surprisingly peppy and if I had purchased before Christmas I probably would have bought one. But after vacationing in Phoenix over the holidays, and trying to merge onto freeways with my brothers slow, slow, slow 6 cyl 3.0L Ranger, I decided that losing 1-2 mpg in exchanage for more power was a worthwhile trade. Also couldn't decide between a six-speed manual or auto tranny but it seems Toyota has some major clutch problems with recent Tacomas so the auto won out. Toyota's quality and customer service seems to be in decline these days. Anyway, they're bringing it in from another dealer so it should be here in the next day or two. Too bad my last two Rangers have been so poor in quality - the Ranger package is really better for my wants and needs than the Tacoma. Oh well. ....

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