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Weights verse filled tires

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Dan G.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 20 Southern New Jersey
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2002-06-12          39514

Gentleman I need some help quickly!
My negoiations for my TC40D is down to the wire. Part of the deal is weighted wheels not liquid filled. My reasoning is that there will still be some bounce left in the tire. I need this because of a terrible back problem. I am comparing to my Ford 3000 with filled tires which I'm SURE in not as ergonomic as the 40D! My question is will I get a lot of bounce while driving from place to place with the 16LA FEL loaded? I figure it would be a problem with Super Steer since it is longer but I'm not going with that option. I need some input from 35, 40 and 45D owners with the pros and cons of weights or calcium. Thanks in advance for your help! Great site!


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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-06-13          39520

I'm not sure there would be much difference in bounce or ride between a tractor with wheel weights or one with 75% liquid fill. I did a quick web search on 'tractor seats.' There seems to be quite a few choices of specialty seats--ergonomic design, air suspension etc. Maybe a better seat would be more effective at managing back problems than the type of ballast would be. Physical and occupational therapists who work in farming areas probably deal with this sort of problem frequently and might even have a solution, but I guess that takes a trip to the doc. I’m just getting over my first serious set of lower back spasms in six years or so. I can’t blame this one on the tractor, and I’m aware that there’s really no such thing as a solution. Better seat might help though. ....

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Dan G.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 20 Southern New Jersey
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2002-06-13          39523

Tom,
I'll have to try out the seat when the tractor arrives. It should be great with all the adjustments available. Anything has to be better than what I have now! ....

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Weights verse filled tires

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-06-13          39527

I have a little tractor (JD4100), so I don't know if I can help much. My experience is that the "bounce factor" has more to do with tire pressure than what is in the tire. I currently have filled tires and I can soften the ride by lowering the pressure to 10-12 lbs. but I recently discovered that road conditions have a lot to do with it also. I thought I had things adjusted pretty well and then I took a short ride on a washboard gravel road and thought I was going to shake my self out of the seat. There is no tractor tire or pressure adjustment that would have helped there. The only thing to do was to find a lower gear and creep out of there. I do know where you are coming from. When docs look at my back x-rays they tell me I shouldn't be able to walk. On a more practical note, I intend to drain my tires, clean up the rust on the rims, and install wheel weights before next winter. I believe they are more practical, easier to handle and much quicker to get back to work in the event of a flat tire. And in my case, they will provide more weight then liquid filled tires. ....

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Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
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2002-06-13          39534

Couple of thoughts:
- Make sure you have sufficient counterweight on the 3pt when moving with a load in the FEL. Put on a little more than you think you need.
- Tires make a difference. We had a string some months ago about tire pressure and tire types. R4's are industrial with 6 or 8 ply side walls -- very stiff/no give. Turfs are big balloons with better cushioning capability. R1's maybe in-between. I found the pressure in my tires as delivered to be at the high end of recommended range, as did others. Drop the pressure to where you get a little belly on the sidewall where the tire meets ground -- could be as low as 5#.
-- Follow your manual's directions for adjusting the give in the seat suspension. Your weight should drive the seat down but not bottom out when you hit a bump.
jim ....

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Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
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2002-06-13          39535

Oh, about your question --
I use and like rear wheel weights -- 2 on each wheel, 110# each. don't know if filled tires are any better for ride though. ....

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Dan G.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 20 Southern New Jersey
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2002-06-13          39537

That's good info! I had the tires rotated on two of my trucks today. The tire managers comments were interesting. (I'm also assuming this is where my dealer takes them to get filled ) If you have a puncture, you must pay to drain and refill the tire along with a new tube. If it all leaks out in one spot kiss the pasture there good bye for a couple of years! But if the weights are not enough, calcium can be added. I'm told that the back ends are little light almost to a fault on the Boomers.
I ordered my TC40D this afternoon with the weights and R-4's. (got a SUPER deal) The AG tires tear up too much since we are solid clay. The turf tires will loose traction in a heartbeat once the clay gets wet. R-4's are heavy and easier than AG's on the pasture. Guess we'll find out soon enough!
....

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John Mc
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 98 Vermont
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2002-06-14          39562

I think you'll find that the seat which comes with your 40D is night and day difference from what you are used to on your old 3000.

John Mc ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2002-06-17          39612

For the best ride and action of the tires for comfort and traction, filled tires are out and wheel weights are in. PERIOD. I've seen to many different tech sheets on this for there to be any movement of my thoughts or ideas. Only your pocket book can make a difference and for the long run that levels out and becomes a plus for you if longevity is a factor. ....

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BillMullens
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 649 Central West Virginia
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2002-06-17          39626

Back when we were debating the windshield washer fluid ballast idea, I read some manufacturers handbooks on tractor tires. At least one stated that their recommendation was for wheel weights rather than fluid loading. No explanation that I recall.
Bill ....

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Dan G.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 20 Southern New Jersey
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2002-06-17          39627

My tractor is scheduled to be built on Wednesday and shipped this Friday .I should have it by the end of next week in a perfect world! I ordered it with weights figuring that I can add more balast if needed. We'll see soon enough!
I'm really looking forward to this as much as a new Hot Rod!
My old 3000 hit the paper Saturday morning. It was sold by 10AM! ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-06-18          39641

I'm happy to hear Art say it--air is softer than fluid. Always made sense to me--just that nobody ever said it. I had previously heard only that fluid affects handling at road speeds. The combination of R4's, loaded tires and road speeds might make for quite a ride.

Another of Art's comments might be considered when deciding about loading or weights. Weights take more power to rotate than comparable weights of fluid. Adding ballast of any kind takes power to move and reduces the power available for work. I believe that rotating weight, such as wheel weights, is the most power greedy ballast, followed by carried weight, but loaded tires is the least greedy. However, the issue may be more important for farm tractors than for compacts. The whole discussion, along with Art's typically fine comments, should be in the archives.
....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2002-06-18          39645

Tom I do not remember saying that the fluid takes less power to rotate than cast weights. When engaging the clutch it takes more strain on it to get the larger diameter weight mass rolling. That statement might be good for another new thread. The fact that the calcium or other type of fluid is going to slow the reaction time of the tire to flex to the ground contours will limit traction. The mess of working with the liquids is the other part that hurts. Cast weight is the ideal way to go if at all possible. The last thing to remember, the lighter that you can do the job means, less wear, less fuel burnt, less breakage. Which means longer life, more econmical life and happy owners. We like to see 110 to 120 pounds per horsepower for maximnum performance and longevity. The more weight that you put on the tractor the less it can pull as you will be useing the available horsepower to move the tractor not the implement. Many here are more concerned with loader work and little as far as tillage work but the same factors apply. It is hard to set up everyones applications with the differences of situations but there are certain goals on weighting that you still try to maintain and get the job done. One thing that every owner should do is to see if the tires are touching the ground all the way across the tread surface. This will give better ride as well as add traction. ....

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TC33
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2002-06-18          39659

I found that the arm rest are nice to push your elbows against to help with the shock absortion.. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-06-19          39678

An excellent summary of the issues from Art. Far better and also far shorter than I could do from what I've distilled here and elsewhere over the years. I can't actually recall where I picked up the impression that the power needed to move rotated and carried weight is different. Didn't intend to attribute the idea to Art, and it might be an interesting thing to think through on another subject, which is seats and ride at the moment.

I think that the important idea that Art summarized is that ballasting a tractor is done to tailor the machine to the specific work it will do. Unless it's done properly the result will be tractors that are too heavy or too light for much of their work. Adding weight shouldn't be an automatic thing, and a mowing tractor probably doesn't need any. For myself, my ground engaging work (including snow removal with loader and blower) gets done OK with turfs and no tire weight. It might get done a little faster with additional rear weight, but overall I prefer my lighter tractor. If I added weight it would be wheel weights.

I should be sensitive to the seat subject right now since last week I had the first serious lower back spasms in six or seven years. My crappy tractor seat and spending several days twisted around watching my box scraper work combined with some stupidity the following day did the number. The stupidity was standing bent over under my 1/2-ton cap rearranging deck blocks that two people were loading as fast as they could.

....

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