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Sawartist
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2002-04-22          37702

I am ready to buy either a TC40D or a TC45D with a loader. I am not sure if I want the supersteer option or not. The salesman told me the following. When you have a front end loader on a supersteer you have to be careful working close around objects because when you turn the steering wheel the front of the tractor will move a little sideways in the opposite direction of your turn. You could be backing up tight alongside a wall and turn to pull out away from the wall and actually hit it with the bucket due to the sideways movement. I was wondering if this is a real problem or not.

Also, I am wondering if it is worth the extra $2,000 to get the extra 5 hp of the 45D or if the 40D is the better deal because of the mid pto option.

I'd appreciate your comments.


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Tom Kopf
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2002-04-22          37708

I bought the TC40D with SS and FEL last year. (100 hours so far) I would have gone for the 45 if they offered the mid PTO option. I currently don't need a mid PTO, but I sure didn't want to buy a new tractor if the need arrises in the future. I pull a very large industrial chipper through the mud sometimes and have pulled out some good sized rootballs with the bucket, and haven't missed the extra 5 HP so far. As for the SS, I do alot of work in my woods and would not want to be without it. Yes, it does move the tractor slightly in the opposite direction (2-3 inches) but that is easy to get used to. You really only notice it when standing still. It is WELL worth the $$ to me. It makes the machine act like a ZTR mower. Try both at your dealer both standing still and moving. I bought mine from a dealer 1.5 hours away. The 2 closer dealers talked down SS because thay didn't have any on the lot. I'm glad that I didn't listen to them. No regrets here, Tom ....

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Sawartist
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2002-04-22          37714

Thanks for the information Tom. My dealer's salesman seems slightly reluctant to sell me the super steer option and I wonder why. He says he owns a smaller SS model himself that he uses to mow his own lawn with because he has a lot of obstacles to mow around. From what I've read on this site it seems like people who have SS seem to like it very well. I'd like to hear from anybody who has had any problems with it.

Tom, you say that you pull a chipper with your 40D. I have a 5,500 lb. industrial 12" chipper with a 4cyl. diesel engine. I was wondering how much your chipper weighs. I'd like to know if I could move mine around with the 45D. I'm not sure if my chipper is heavier than yours.


The only attachments that I think would ever need a mid PTO for is a front mounted snow thrower or a mid mount mower. And I do not think that I'd ever use either one of those. Any other attachments that require a mid mount PTO? I ask this because I'm leaning toward buying the 45D which does not have the mid PTO as an option.

I'm going back to the dealer tomorrow to test drive a tractor with SS and one without. I will be making my buying decision in the next two days because the interest rates through NHC will be going up after that. So if anybody has anything bad or good to say about the Super Steer feature please post ASAP. Thanks in advance! Craig
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Tom Kopf
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2002-04-22          37718

Sounds like our chippers are about the same size. Mine has a 6 cyl. gas motor. I bought it at a NY state equipment auction. I have no problem hauling it through 10-12 inches of slop. As for problems with SS, I've never heard anyone say that they had a problem, only that there was the potential for more problems because of more parts. I do not agree. Take the time tomorrow to give the system a good looking over. It is a great design, and really doesn't seem to have any more parts than a standard type 4wd tractor axle. Let us know how you make out. ....

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Tom Kopf
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2002-04-22          37719

One other thing about the SS. I believe that only with this option you also get the Sensatrac option that allows you to not rip up your lawn when you make a sharp turn. I have R4s and haven't hurt my lawn yet. ....

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BKColeman
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2002-04-22          37722

I've got a TC 40D w/ SuperSteer and I am very pleased with it. I too chose the 40D in case I ever wanted to use the mid-pto.

I love SuperSteer. It was one of the major reasons I chose NH over JD. The only time I have found the bucket movement to be a problem is when lining up to put the quick-detach bucket on. That slight movement was unsettling at first. After about the third time doing it, I drive right up with no problems. The Sensitrac clutch is a great feature in my mind too. ....


Link:   TC 40D vs The Stump

 
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Tom Kopf
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2002-04-22          37723

I noticed that you also had the dealer weld hooks onto the bucket Brad. Craig, I'd recommend that along with the HD bucket also. ....

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Sawartist
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2002-04-22          37725

Thanks Brad! Great pictures, Better than New Holland's web site. I like those hooks on the bucket too! I'll get the heavy duty bucket also.

I'll keep everyone posted on how the purchase goes.

I'm from Warrensburg NY and my dealer is Capital Tractor of Greenwich NY.

Thanks again guys! Craig ....

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Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2002-04-22          37727

I use my tractor on hillsides, and must reverse the front wheels for stability. does this cause any problems with the SS on the NH's?
And sometimes I wonder if I'm not seeing the same posts as others -- where in the BK's pics is there a bucket with hooks? all the pics i looked at show a blue lifting a stump with forks on the FEL but no bucket or hooks.
jim

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BKColeman
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2002-04-23          37730

Jim, to see the bucket hooks you have to switch to a different gallery of photos on the same site. Try the link below. It is from delivery day. ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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Sawartist
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2002-04-23          37762

I ordered a new TC45D Super Steer with a FEL, HD quick attach bucket and pallet forks today. Commercial tires. Filled rears with tubes. I bought the grill guard too. The dealer is going to weld hooks on the bucket just like Brad's. I printed a picture of Brad's bucket from his web- site and took it to the dealer. I also had them add a rear work light and rear remote hydraulics. I decided to go with the SS immediately after trying one out in the dealers parking lot. Wow! Was I ever impressed! I decided that I'd probably never use the mid mount PTO so I decided to go with the extra Horsepower of the TC45D. I figured that I could always use the extra HP. My dealer sells around eighty Boomers a year and has never sold a PTO kit for a TC40D. So I figured that I would probably never need one either.


He had a used TC45D coming in with 150 hrs. on it for $3,500 less but the interest rate would be higher on it due to it being used. When the math was done I was getting a better deal with buying new.

I do not know when I'll be getting it yet. The dealer did not have one in stock. If he can't find one from another dealer close by then he'll have to order it from Georgia. Even that should only take a couple of weeks. I've waited many years to make this purchase so I guess I can wait a couple more weeks. Craig
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BKColeman
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2002-04-24          37768

Congratulations. I'm sure you'll be happy with that package.

I had the dealer order mine straight from the factory and it only took 8 days to get there. Another 3 or so for setup and it was mine. ....

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Jim on Timberridge
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2002-04-26          37873

BK: I'm still interested in whether the front wheels can be reversed with SS. This is to widen the front stance for stability with a FEL and on sidehills.
Did you explore this with your dealer?
jim ....

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Tom Kopf
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2002-04-27          37881

I looked at the front rims of my TC40D yesterday. The way that the center is stamped, I don't think that they'll reverse. On the other side of that, it looks like the rims have 0 offset, so it wouldn't make a differance here. The rears can be adjusted. ....

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TomG
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2002-04-27          37885

I'm sitting here thinking: 'If the front axle turns when super steer is operating, wouldn't that reduce the front axle stance in some situations?’ I don't know how much the axle turns or how much of a turn would affect stability on a side-hills, but it seems like it would be a least a theoretical issue. I think that super steer can be either engaged or disengaged. If so, I'd probably want it disengaged when working side hills.

In terms of reversing the front wheels on tractors with super steer; wheels with offset rims and the same bolt pattern might be available. However, increasing the stance might not be a good idea. I believe super steer has parts that are subject to failure, and generally there are some maintenance issues. Even if an increased stance worked in terms of steering geometry, increasing the stance would likely increase the stress on parts and increase the likelihood of repair bills.
....

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Tom Kopf
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2002-04-27          37894

Tom G, Please don't take offense at my reply, but I must admit that I am irritated by some of your points. First, you are right about the front end stance being narrowed as the front end turns. I get the strong feeling that you haven't closely looked at a SS setup. The way it is set up does not allow for any type or "disengagement". It is simply a pretty much standard 4X4 tractor axle with 2 heavy duty tie rod end type of links added. I have had this setup for over a year now and abused it as much as anyone. I do not see any extra parts that could give a failure compared to a standard front end. When I have mine at full lock either left or right, one wheel is almost at a 90 degree angle to the centerline of the tractor and in FRONT of the radiator. No, I would not do this on a steep hillside, but if I only turned the wheels as much as the maximum a standard front ended tractor could turn, the wheels would not be in this extreme position. There doesn't seem to be room for a more positive OR negetive rim off set without interference at full lock. As for maintenance, there are about 4 or 5 extra grease fittings for the SS. I'm sorry, but I am just about the biggest advocate of this option. It has made working in my woods with FEL a pleasure. To tell the truth, it is the one major thing that made me choose Blue. ....

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TomG
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2002-04-28          37907

No offence taken. I hope it was apparent when I said 'I think' that I was stating an impression rather than particular knowledge. There were comments here about SS maintenance and expense awhile back. Your impression is correct. I haven't been close to a Boomer with or without SS. If my dealer was nearer, I might see newer tractors from time to time.

I don't have a problem in making a comment that is speculation so long as I don't play expert. After all this is how I learn things. I'm happy enough to raise a theoretical issue and to have gained the specific knowledge in your comments. I imagine other readers benefit as well.

I think SS probably is a pretty good thing. If I had it, then I'd probably have a mower for my tractor. Without something like SS, it's simply faster for me to finish mow with a 12HP riding mower where there are buildings and landscaping to maneuver around.

I’m still curious about the theoretical issue of potentially reduced stability on side hills when SS is active. The issue may be more theoretical than practical, because old Ford N-tractors are reputed to be about as good as any on side hills. The N’s are 2WD and I believe are proportionally low and have wide rear stances compared to compacts. The N’s certainly don’t have tri-cycle fronts, but it’s a little difficult to judge if their front stances are proportionate to compacts.

It’s possible that stability primarily is maintained by the rear stance, and any reduction of front stance due to SS would have little effect. I don’t know, but it might be a good thing for SS owners who operate on side hills to know about since SS can’t be disengaged. From the comments, I understand that SS works by allowing the wheels to turn normally to locks and then the axle starts pivoting. Of course, extreme maneuvering on hills isn’t good anytime. However, if there’s potential for reduced stability I wonder if there’s any indication other than looking when SS becomes active.
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Tom Kopf
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2002-04-28          37913

Tom G., you sound like a helluva guy. I was worried that you might not take my comments the right way. I do need to point out the the front axle actually does start moving anytime you turn, not just at or near full lock. While it is a simple setup, it is hard to explain. The first time that I saw it, it was not mechanically the way I thought it would be. Try to imagine the steering going to the spindles just as normal, with the difference being that the spindles are "bound" to the frame by a Heim joint. Now when you start turning, the spindles "can't" move because the Heim joints are "binding" them. Now, the way the factory positioned the joints, the axle pivots and that in turn makes the spindles turn. The axle on these machines kind of rests under a cup. This allows the axle to turn AND move the way any other tractor axle does in order to keep all wheels on the ground on uneven surfaces. I know this sounds complex, weak, gimmicky, or whatever. I must say that it is worth seeing in action sometime when you are near a NH dealer. I must admit that I crawled around under the first one I saw and still didn't understand it until I saw it moving. I hope that I didn't confuse the issue even further, Tom ....

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cutter
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2002-04-28          37915

I'll throw my 2 cents in here. I have owned both types of compact. The SS allows not only allows you to turn sharper, but it turns sharper with less scuffing. When you compare the degree of angle of the front tires required to make the same turn on a conventional tractor, you will find it is less agressive due to the axle pivoting at the same time. On the down side, you can't take full advantage of it on even slightly wet sod without doing damage, same as you do with a conventional setup. It will tend to skid the forward most tire when turning sharp on slippery surfaces as well [at least with R-4's]. The sensatrac is great, I never bothered to lock the front axle. The ergonomics are the best in my opinion, and the stance is wide and low. I had numerous problems with mine but never with the SS, it seems like a good system and must have at least twenty grease fittings on it to keep it moving like it should. I did not care for the way the loader mounted on mine, but I believe the larger ones such as the one you are buying mount like the Kubota, which I believe is the best system for both safety and reliabliity. ....

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TomG
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2002-04-29          37929

Well, thanks! And now I know even a bit more. Suppose I should come to grips with Sensitrack though.

I suppose that the term 'collective consciousness' has been a cliche since about 1969. Well, maybe it's been long enough so I can use it with a straight face. Collective consciousness does describe what these forums do well when they are at their best. Everybody's got something to learn and everybody's got something to contribute.

Participation is what makes it work and that way everybody gets to know more and more. Egos, expert roles, entrenched positions and posturing just detract from how well a forum works. Plenty of other places where all that can be found. Hope we keep mostly to trying to build practical experience on a sound theoretical base around here. I still think of myself mostly as a voice of theory I haven't broken enough stuff to have acquired that much practical experience. Tractors are enough different from my paid (although not paid well) experience on motorcycles and light trucks in the early 70's so I feel I've got a lot to learn about them.
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BobTheFarmer
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2002-04-29          37931

I would have to say you really need to see it and try it to get a real feeling of how hit works! Or.. even if you don't try it seeing it move about in and around tight areas will give you sense of it's value to customers that work in areas that are tight. Take a look at the NH website.. they have a walk around view that shows the SS. And http://www.newholland.com/na/Products/supersteer.html will talk a bit about it. ....

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SawArtist
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2002-05-01          38033

As soon as I get my new TC45D SS with FEL I'll post and share my impressions of the tractor with everyone here. I should be getting it in a week to ten days from now. And our farm has many side hills so I'm curious about stability also.

Since the bucket of the loader is positioned ten inches further forward on the Super Steer models I wonder if I'll need additional weight on the rear end. The dealer is filling the R4 tires and told me that there is no need for wheel weights. I've never had a tractor without weights on the rear wheels before. I know that I can just add an attachment on the back for a counterbalance but that would cut down on maneuverability. I'll just have to try it and see how it goes. My dealer seems to know what he's talking about so I'll try it without weights. ....

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