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 | Michigander
Join Date: Posts: 1 
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2001-02-02 23892
My TC40D does not warm up. It is a new tractor and the dealer has been out to replace the thermostat but the only way to get the gauge to register even close to the Green range is to put a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator. I am in Michigan and it has been quite cold here (teens or lower) but I thought I should get some reading on the gauge without resorting to the cardboard. I am concerned that this is not good for the engine to run cold all the time. Anyone else have this problem or is it normal?
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962 
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2001-02-02 23893
From what I've read on the forums, as well as my own experience, most of us with Kubotas and New Hollands both have temperature gauges that read very low, even in hot weather. ....
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| JonB
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2001-02-03 23905
First, congratulations on your new tractor. In your situation, I'd ask the dealer to warm up a TC40D on his lot and compare the temperature readings. You can compare this with your machine on the same day and approximate temperature. I guess it sounds like a real problem since the dealer agreed to replace a thermostat, but it might be he doesn't operate tractors that much. The dealer probably starts one and demonstrates it daily, but probably doesn't spend hours in the seat working in all kinds of weather. So, I'd ask him to start another machine and warm it up. Best of luck. JonB ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2001-02-03 23912
As others noted, the dealer should be able to say what is normal, and gauges on some models do seem to read low. My Ford 1710 puffs some smoke on acceleration until it gets up to operating temperature. At operating temp, there's very little smoke. That may be a good test for telling if the engine is warming up enough for normal operation. I'm not sure how feasible it is to design a cooling system for all climates. By comparison, my dad had a place in Arizona where people shut off their hot water eaters during the summer. The water going through the city system gets hot enough for comfortable showers. May be that cardboard isn't a bad solution. ....
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| RickB.
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2001-02-03 23916
This is a common complaint on the class III TC's. It has been suggested that coolant is bypassing from the radiator to the block via the common coolant drain located on the right side of the engine/radiator. The jury is still out on this, because the common drain has been used for over 10 years on NH and Ford compacts. The difference MAY be that these tractors are the biggest NH's with hydrostatic transmissions. The cooling systems may be designed larger to cool the engine after air has been 'preheated' by the oil cooler. You could try pinching off the drain tube and see if the temp runs higher in similar conditions. If you choose to try this, please let me know what you find, either post here or email me. Thanks, RickB. ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2001-02-03 23920
Anytime you put cardboard in front of the radiator you should cover it competely and cut a round hole at the center of your fan. The blades on the fan are continually flexing as to where they can draw air and where they can't. This causes the blades to weaken with time and will break the blades off. Seen it several times and it's not to alarm anyone because I've never seen it happen on new units but by ten years time it can happen. ....
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| Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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2001-02-03 23921
The first thing that you should ask the dealer to check is the gauge and sender. Dunking the sender in a pan of near-boiling water should do the trick. For lower temperatures, I use a remote sensing digital thermometer from Radio Shack (about $15.00) as my master meter. Checked it against a lab thermometer and it is within a degree.
If your gauge checks out I see nothing wrong with the cardboard. During the winter and when doing light work my compact takes forever to heat up. But when a diesel is working hard they generate a lot of heat. In general diesels operate over a wider heat/load range than a gasoline engine.
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| Rick Seymour
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 40
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2001-02-03 23926
I'm in SE Michigan & running in the same outside temps as you. My TC29D has to be running at 2000 RPM or above to come to working temp. Working temp is about 1/2 way on the gauge. I'll get some smoke until the engine has had 5 - 10 minutes to warm up. Once I get about 1/2 way to operating temp I have no smoke.
The hydraulics also scream until they warm up. In the winter I start the enginge with the clutch depressed so as to take all the load off the starter & engine. After 2 or 3 minutes I release the clutch & then will (with the range lever in neutral) depress the HST pedal & keep it down till the engine regains its RPM. This whole process only takes about 10 minutes but all systems are happier if the are warmed up.
Years ago I did the same with my CJ5 jeep by putting the transfer case in neutral and the trany in first gear. Of course those were the days of 90 weight manual transmission fluid & you could not physically shift the thing if you did not warm it up.
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| Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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2001-02-03 23927
Sounds like a good excuse to get a block and tranny heater. ....
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| Rick Seymour
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 40
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2001-02-04 23937
You're right Roger. Last winter never got cold and snowy enough at the same time for starting to be an issue. However, this winter is a different story in Michigan. I will probably have them installed when I send it to the dealer for it's 200 hr checkup/service about 20 hours from now.
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2001-02-05 23951
I've been thinking about the hole in the cardboard in front of the fan. Fascinating--the things that you'd never think about. On the subject of hydraulic oil screaming, use of a good multi-season or winter oil also helps. In fact, my dealer said that use of a winter oil is the main thing because not much heat actually gets through the cases from magnetic heaters. I use multi-season oil, but I still use one or two magnetic heaters and believe they do make a difference. Anyway, anything that helps the engine and hydraulics get up to temperature and stay there is good. I don't know what folks who have tractors with aluminum cases do, but I have heard there are heaters that replace the filler caps for some tractors. I had to chuckle last December when I was blowing snow in below -10F weather. I was using the loader about every fifteen minutes. I realized the oil in the loader cylinders was cooling down from one use to the next to the point that lowering the bucket in float was proceeding in slow motion. Why am I working outside in this weather, I asked myself, and why is the tractor conspiring to keep me out here even longer? ....
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| Peter Accorti
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2001-02-05 23974
I put a small piece of cardboard in front of my TC35D to warm it up. It helps a lot. Without it my machine would never (seemingly) warm up (or stay warm) in low 20 degree temps. Without looking at the fan, I would assume that the cardboard should be solid in the center of the radiator and perforated at the perimeter. The fan blades (I assume) are unsupported at the ends. I makes sense to me that the holes in the cardboard should be nearest the unsupported part of the fan blades (the perimeter of the radiator). For a given % blockage of the radiator this should produce the least fan flex.
Peter ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2001-02-06 23979
Peter: I'm not sure a tractor should need cardboard to maintain temperature in +20F weather. My 1710 did last winter, but I replaced the thermostat this fall, and found the old gasket had been installed on the wrong side of the thermostat, which may have bypassed too much coolant. Now, at below 0F and no cardboard, the temperature comes into the low normal range after about 5-minutes at fast idle, and goes to mid-gauge shortly after starting moderate work at PTO speed. I don't know if all tractors perform like this, but my 1710 now seems to be working the way I think it should.
About the cardboard hole: This is the sort of thing I don't know but I like to try to think through--I guess it's a kind of recreation for me. Drives my wife nuts, but at least she never resents the time I spend here. Gets it out of my system I guess. Anyway, here's an alternative idea that may support the idea of having a hole in front of the fan. Placing an obstruction in front of a fan forces it to operate at a greater load. The fan must draw air over a greater distance and across more material. Increased load means increased stress on the blade mounts. The force of drawing air pulls the blades into the airflow, and the blades must flex on their mounts. More load means more flex. In addition, an obstruction in front of the fan may distribute the load on the blades further out towards the blade ends. Load on the blade ends would stress the mounts more than load towards the centre.
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2001-02-06 23983
On the issue of the radiator with the cardboard or just blocking it. The holes on the outer end would need to be cut with extreme accuracy in order to have even draw on the blades to maintain there pitch. By going to the center the hole can be off or a little less accurate and still have even draw on the fan blades on the outer end so they hold there pitch the same. ....
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| Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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2001-02-06 23984
What an interesting thought: The idea that where the holes are in the
cardboard affects the flex of the blades. However, I'll have to think about the conclusion that putting the holes in the peripehery reduces the blade flex. It seems that it could go the other way as well. For this and other reasons I think I'll continue to put the hole in the center ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2001-02-06 23990
I do think that is the safest place. To think that the other source is the outer edge of the hoods than the center is the only logical place. But sometimes logic can't be used so who wanted to use the radiator to cool the engine anyway. Thank you for your vote of support Roger. ....
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| Tom Lucent
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2001-02-06 23999
It has been my thought on the hole in the cardboard is to put less stress on the water pump bearings. TL ....
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| Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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2001-02-07 24004
Well, I've thought about fans and obstructions. And here is what I've come up with: If a fan works like any other mechanical device, then it requires the most power and suffers the most load when it is doing the most work.....i.e. moving the most air. The reverse is also true. ....
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| Todd Peirce
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2001-02-08 24031
Hello,
I also have a TC40D that had the same problem. I live in Massachusetts and the temps have been about the same. It is the coolant drain hose that is recirculating the coolant. I thought the best solution would be to install a shutoff valve in the hose. That way you can close the valve during the cold months and open it to use the drain feature when needed. The dealer found a nice brass valve and sent it to me. I installed it within a few minutes. The best way to install it is to pinch off the hose with two pairs of vice grips and cut the hose and install the valve. The tractor now warms up within a few minutes. ....
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| Michigander
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2001-02-08 24032
Good idea. I'll give my dealer a call to see if he can find a valve for me! Thanks ....
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