Go BottomKubota L185 PTO slipping after hitting log
 | b_w881
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 7 Florida 
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2003-11-26 69722
PTO spins up to speed slowly with bushhog under no load. It bogs down to a stop very quickly when bushog under load in grass. No noise or indication of anything broken. Tractor functions normally otherwise in forward and reverse gears. It apparently has a sprag type overrun clutch, according to the documentation that I have. Any ideas on what could be wrong?
Thanks,
Bracken Watts
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 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee 
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2003-11-26 69724
Can you say pto clutch kaput!!! ? I no longer have my L245 shop manuals but I don't remember too much about clutch adjustments the would effect the pto. Sounds to me like the pto clutch is slipping. Ronnie at Tractorsmart may be able to offer you some good advice, but it does not look good. Hope you can fix her on the cheap. Good luck! ....
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| b_w881
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 7 Florida
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2003-11-26 69725
Thanks. I'll try to track down Ronnie at TractorSmart. ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-11-26 69727
Ronnie was VERY knowledgable and helpful when have dealt with him when I had my L245. I bet he can give you the best price on parts if you need them. Good luck. ....
Link: Contact Info.
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-11-27 69761
Sure does sound like a clutch but broken shafts can sometimes do that. So now I'll sound mindless but only because it's a hopeful idea. I don't suppose there's a chance of a broken shear pin or blown slip clutch.
Clutches more often go when they've been run under high loads for awhile or repeatedly. A shock caused by hitting something is supposed to break a shear pin or slip a clutch and so I'd check for that if you haven't already. When I break a pin on my auger it acts exactly the same way. ....
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| b_w881
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 7 Florida
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2003-11-27 69790
The shear bolt was cut into but not broken. It was a grade 5 bolt. If the shaft was broken, I don't think it would spin up at all. That's what's confusing to me. It does spin up but slowly like it is slipping. There's not noise either to indicate broken gears. There's no external slip clutch although I am considering it in the future after this is repaired. Thanks for the input. ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2003-11-27 69793
It sure (unfortunately) sounds like the PTO clutch is shot.
The log may not have done any real damage, it may just have been the last straw. I have seen them so burnt up that they turned brittle, then the next time you hit something sudden like that the linings just shatter and fly out, leaving just steel on steel.
The most likely culprits for eating PTO clutches are snowblowers and rototillers. A previous operator may have done it in long before you ever set eyes on it.
Best of luck. ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-11-27 69794
If you hit a log and the shear pin bolt did not break and the rotary cutter was stopped or slowed by the log while the tractor was at pto operating rpm. VERY good chance that the pto clutch slipped and burned up. It may be a blessing i disguise as if the shear pin bolt did not do its job the clutch may have saved the pto power train from serious damage. You may not have the correct shear pin bolt installed. Verify what is the spec shear pin bolt. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-11-28 69823
It sure wouldn't take long to burn up a clutch if the shear pin didn't break and the mower was stopped.
I'd sure check out what shear pin is supposed to be used in the cutter and also that the cuter isn't oversized for the tractor. Shear pins usually go with the implement rather than the tractor. You can find almost any grade used but grade-2 is the most common--especially if it's around a 5/16" size. The times I've broken pins on my blower or auger, they've broken cleanly. I have heard that the pinholes can get egg-shaped on units where pins are broken repeatedly and then the pins may not break cleanly. I've also heard that loose or corroded pins can do the same. However, all this after the fact stuff doesn't do much good for now. Good chance it's the clutch and that's pretty painful and not good to hear.
It's not uncommon for a shaft or coupler to be broken and the output still rotate under very light loads. It's the sort of thing that can complicate diagnosing broken axles. The tractor will move in 4wd but not in 2wd and each rear wheel seems powered when jacked up. My auger does the same. The first time I broke a shear I though I had blown the pto clutch. ....
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| b_w881
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 7 Florida
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2003-11-28 69870
Just got back from taking the tractor to the shop. They say it is the clutch and the parts will cost $1200.00!! Does that sound right? Anyone out there knowledgable about the price of Kubota parts? I only paid $2500.00 for the tractor. ....
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 | harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY 
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2003-11-28 69871
Does that include them installing it? If so that is in the ball park. ....
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| b_w881
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 7 Florida
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2003-11-28 69872
No. $50.00 per hour for labor extra. ....
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| harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2003-11-28 69873
Did they give you an estimate of time? $1200 seems a little steep but you're dealing with parts. I'd hope that includes flywheel, disk/s, pilot bearing, disk and throwout. I've bought parts for my old 1500 Ford and they about put me over the edge.
Art will probably weight in on this and he can give you the real "skinny" on this issue.
Depending on how bad it is maybe you can just get away with a new disk. Then trade tractor...
The other comment I had, TomG touched, is get rid of any grade5 bolts for shear pins grade 2 is more than enough and they are a whole lot cheaper than internal drive line damages, broken gearboxes, twisted shafts and all other stuff that can happen when the shearbolt does not shear. ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-11-28 69876
Braken, give Ronnie a call at the number I posted the link on. Run this situation by him and I am sure he can lay out the best course of action for you.
You also may want to consider that option of cutting your losses unless you can do the labor yourself. Your L185 I am assuming 2WD and best case a 1982 model is worth around $1,500 to $2,000. Figure down from there if the tractor is older. You may want to consider what kind of trade-in you can get (if any) as is on a new or newer tractor vs. repairing it. After $1,200 worth of repairs you may still have a $1,500 tractor. The clutch in my L245 was stuck to the pressure plate and was not were repairing in my opinion. It was another good reason to trade up and cut my losses. You may be able to find a private tractor repair shop to do the repair for less, but how much less, I am not sure. I have a feeling you probably don't want to hear this but I am showing both sides of the coin. Price out the part & labor plus any other problem you are aware of on this tractor vs. where you would be at with trading it and buying a new or used newer tractor. You are going to have to weigh the options and factors here and decide. Sometimes you can come out pretty good on a last year's model or lease turn-in. Either way it looks like it is going to cost you. Sorry to see all this happen and hope you can work out something. ....
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| b_w881
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 7 Florida
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2003-11-28 69877
I have definitely learned my lesson on shear bolts. I'm considering using an external slip clutch device in the future as well. The part that they are quoting me has nothing to do with the normal drive train pressure plate, etc. It is the pto clutch assembly which consists of sprag overrun clutch and housing, bearings, etc. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-11-28 69888
Here's some theory for a creative repair but of course some theory isn't doable.
An overrunning clutch is kind of like a ratchet that allows the pto output shaft to turn faster than the input shaft so engine rpm can be reduced while allowing a heavy cutter to wind down. These things are part of the TX so there's more tear down than just replacing a drive clutch. $1200 for that sort of part plus bearings sounds steep.
I'll grant that the shop may be able to diagnose a broken overrunning clutch, bearings etc. without tearing the tractor down. However, it may be just good practice to replace parts as long as it has to be torn down. For creative repair, maybe something like OEM bearings (most bearings can be gotten from OEM sources), a coupler between the clutch input and output shafts and an external overrunning clutch added. In theory a coupler might be simply a splined shaft the right length. I think external overrunning clutches run under $100. There's still the tear down but most any experienced mechanic could do it if a repair manual were available. Alternatively, this may be simply a harebrained notion. ....
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