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 | sapman
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1 West Centeral Wisconsin 
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2003-11-22 69369
I have a Kubota 3130 with a LA723 FEL. My problem is loader speed. It is so quick on the down cycle that it becomes unstable. Also if I work it hard, the seals will leak around the cylinder rods. Have replaced 1 set of seals on one cylinder already. Is there a restictor that goes in the lines to slow down the speed?
I used to work for the dealership and assembled new Kubota's and Boomers but have never seen loader speed such as this. Dealer is telling me they have noticed the faster speeds also.
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada 
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2003-11-22 69372
Blowing seals and uncontrolable speed?
Too much system pressure? Have you put a gauge on the hydraulic system to see where the releif valve is set? ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-11-23 69390
I guess it's the lift rather than the bucket circuit. The leaks sound like a pressure thing but the speed may be a design thing.
Put a big pump along with big valves that have larger ports then heavy loads will drop fast. Sometimes flow restrictors in cylinder lines are used to slow things down but these are some down-sides. Lower engine rpm might help some but then there's likely be some oil cavitation in the cylinders, which wouldn't be much a problem. Some more expensive cylinders have cushioned stops but that wouldn't help stopping loads mid-way.
More 3ph weight might improve stability but if the relief pressure is high then bigger loads can be picked up, which lower faster and have more stability problems. If loads, ballast weight and the relief pressure are in spec and stability remains a problem then I'd expect a factory fix before long. You don't really want to depend on feathering valves to keep from ending up on your nose. ....
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| bnrhuffman
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 107 Falling Waters WV
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2003-11-23 69399
The loader on my 3130 drops fast also but I dont see it as a problem. Whats wrong with feathering the valve? Will this cause damage or wear? I feather the valve almost all the time to smooth things out, curl and lift at the same time and do precise work. is this something I shouldnt do or is abnormal? ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-11-23 69400
No problem feathering valves that I'm aware of. In fact I think of feathering as an essential skill. Especially with hoes, banging weight around on the end of long levers creates big shock loads.
The trouble with depending on feathering is not doing it. Hands jerk, controls get bumped. That sort of thing, and then a tractor may end on its nose. More 3ph ballast may be a better solution than either hydraulic system re-jigging or feathering. However, a bunch of stress to the chassis results from dropping heavy buckets when the 3ph has big weight. It's good to ease heavy buckets down even if the tractor is stable.
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-11-24 69436
Do you have any rear ballast? ....
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| imtools
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 34 Ridge, NY
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2003-11-24 69438
Since speed is a function of flow and not pressure, I don't think that is the problem. The down direction will typically be faster, not only beacuse of gravity but the volume on the rod side of the piston is smaller and the same amount of fluid entering will cause more movement-hence faster.
I assume when you are going down you are referring to lowering the bucket to the ground and not lifting the tractor with the bucket on the ground. The latter is one condition where the pressure might be too high and blowing your seals. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-11-24 69456
Another way to get high cylinder pressures is using the bucket like a dozer. With the spooling valves closed oil is trapped in the cylinders and lines and circuit relief valves usually provide protection. The pressure settings for these valves may be much higher than the system relief setting. Using a loader for a dozer would tend to affect the bucket cylinder pressers more than the lift cylinders but it's still an issue. It's also pretty easy to break a loader frame doing that if the bucket is extended much. ....
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 | JParker
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 152 Richmond, VA
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2003-11-24 69530
So I shouldn't use my 4-in-1 bucket in the open position as a dozer blade to dig / level earth?
I was just about to start leveling a driveway. Admittedly I bought the 4-in-1 for moving brush and small trees, but I thought pushing dirt was also an option.
I was even about to price adding teeth to the bucket.
Would I be better off with a box blade for heavier scraping? ....
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| imtools
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 34 Ridge, NY
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2003-11-25 69550
JParker
I think what TomG was referring to is that when you PUSH with the bottom of the bucket perpendicular to the ground, the forward force will try to move the bucket cylinder out (extend). This puts an unknown (and unprotected by relief valve) amount of pressure on the rod seals. If you PULL (scrape), the force is the other way around and does directly affect the bucket cylinder rod seals.
The lift arm cylinders are loaded in the opposite direction but because of their angle, the negative effect is not nearly as pronounced. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-11-25 69565
Yes that's what I meant and it would have been clearer to say with the bucket nearly perpendicular to the ground. It's pretty easy pushing stuff around that way to hit something and pop seals, bend shafts or break things. People grade all the time with fairly flat buckets.
I much prefer a box scraper (important point with hydraulic top-link) for grading work but other people get acceptable results with loaders and particularly loaders with tooth bars. Mine doesn't have one and also doesn't cut very well. I don't know what other people do, but when I grade with my loader I usually float the lift and ride the bucket control so I can keep adjusting how much the bucket cuts. If it's too much the blade digs in the loader frame jack knives. If it's too little the bucket rides on its bottom and doesn't cut. I'm usually left with a wavy grade that I have to backdrag to level.
I suppose I'd try it with the loader and maybe think about a box scraper and hydraulic link if you don't get acceptable results after some practice. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-11-25 69570
JParker, you can do a lot of the kind of work you describe with the FEL, but as stated it is simply not as rugged as a box scraper. Just go slow and take little bites. ....
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| kballs
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4 Georgetown, Maine
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2003-11-28 69837
I have a 3130 and have had to replace both seals as well. The first went when I was leveling material, using the bucket as a dozer blade (I have learned my lesson). The second seal went when I was using the backhoe, had the bucket flat on the ground, no pressure. I have contacted my dealer a couple of times, but they haven't had any other seal problems with the 3130. My machine only has 50 hours on it, I am somewhat frustrated with the seals going while performing relatively "easy work" on the FEL. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-11-28 69838
To have a problem once with a cylinder on a loader is unusual for lite work much less heavy. To have it happen twice, something is wrong with this picture. I'd be looking for marks on the cylinder ram! ....
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| hornworm
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2 Cedar MI
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2003-12-02 70151
sapman I have the L3130DT . Great Machine . I like the quickness of the loader. I have learned to be gracefull with the joystick . pushing the joystick all the way forward will drop the loader quickly but if I push it just slightly forward than it only opens the valves slightly therefore slower movement. What I really like about the joystick is that I can have the bucket tilting and the loader raising or lowering simultaneously. This allows for efficient loader operations. and man when I get in the groove its like playing a video game. Hope I was not to far off the question? ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-12-03 70173
Horn: No debate about your description of the operation and it's good you're happy with the operation--just some tech detail here that may be of interest. You may well have a fast dump feature on the bucket valve that is activated by pushing the control all the way. What appears to be simultaneous movement may well be a tandem hookup in the valve assembly where the lightest load moves first. ....
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