Go BottomBreakout capacity of FEL
 | BGScott
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4 Washington 
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2003-03-13 51095
I'm buying a tractor for landscaping and mowing, and in the first few years I anticipate doing some fairly intensive bucket work as we grade our property, remove rocks, stumps, etc.
How important is the rated breakout capacity of the FEL in these situations? The FEL on the B7500 is something like 1100 lbs, while the other tractor that I'm looking at (4110) is around 2100 lbs.
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| drgavin
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 19 Minnesota/Western Wisc.
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2003-03-13 51097
I also "dig" alot with my FEL (L3010) the breakout on my unit is not outstanding.The pros will tell you that fel's are not good at digging and they are mostly right.
I also have a backhoe on my rig and use it to loosen up the soil then move it with the FEL.
Ever think of a Bobcat? That digs better. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2003-03-14 51123
I never did get the hang of digging and grading with a loader. Some people do pretty well with them, but I got the hang of my box scrapper first. To me a box with hydraulic top-link works far better than a loader. Trying to cut a decent grade by riding the bucket curl just didn't work for me. I kept getting divots that I then had to go back and fill in.
I end up doing virtually all shallow excavations, grading and maintenance with the box. Grading to me means shooting to specific angles while I call general smoothing and filling work maintenance. I use the loader mostly for transporting loose material and I use both the box as well as back-drag with the loader for compacting.
The longer I have the box the more I use it and the less I use the loader. I surprised myself by using the box almost exclusively to spread the last tandem load of gravel for a drive, and the gravel was dumped in one pile. You'd think that taking gravel off a pile would be loader work, but I started backing up the side of the pile and dropping the 3ph to pick up a box of gravel. I then lengthened the top link so I could drag the box to where I needed to spread it.
There may be a safety issue here, but before I knew it the whole pile was gone. It took much less time than if I'd driven loader buckets of gravel around and dropped them here and there. A box is not a very expensive thing if a rear hydraulic outlet is available.
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-03-14 51127
Tom, that is a good point for the box blade as to the ease of operation. We often, due to our stones use a Harley rock rake to grade with as the box will leave divots from the stones thru out your work. I have not found a loader that I can't kick into the relief mode while working with it. They are built that way for a reason. Basically longevity of the unit. Size is important only to a degree, knowing how the machine does work will mean that you can do more by working within the machines limitations. I've dug out tree stumps before that well out weigh the unit that dug them. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-03-15 51183
Yes, true enough that I get rocks under the cutters that drag and leave grooves when I'm trying to smooth sometimes. That probably wouldn't happen with a Harley rake.
My divots happen when I'm trying to cut a decent grade with the loader in float. I try to get a decent cutting angle with the bucket valve, but then the bucket tends to dig in going over bumps or starting up hills. The loader and tractor start to jack knife and I have dug a nice hole in the grade that I'm smoothing. I try to prevent this by riding the bucket valve but then I tend to end up with a 'ripple' grade. The ripple is worse if I try to grade without the loader in float.
I know some people do this work OK with loaders, it's just that I got the hang of a box scraper before I got it with the loader. I'm still no-good grading with a loader and probably never will be. I'd like to get a Harley rake sometime.
It is also true that if I didn't have a backhoe I'd be digging stumps with the loader. A box scraper would be useless. I did dig a 12' x 6' x 1' excavation for a raised leeching pit with it. Well, the loader did help to true up the end walls. Boxes are the Swiss Army knives of landscaping implements but they don't do everything.
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 | WillieH
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 543 New England 
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2003-03-17 51368
I know i'm getting off-track from the subject at hand , but, I had to interject.
Tom, Art is right when he points out that sometimes the unit is much smaller than the stump or rock being moved / removed.
Try not to laugh too hard with what I am about to say. I put a Woods 650 backhoe on one of my B5200's. Over the years, I have seen the "pros" operate tractors with and without hoes. It amazes me to see these guys having the throttle kicked up so high as to throw the tractor around, having the hydraulic operating pressure so high from the high throttle that the hoe operates extremely jerky, and ultimately does some sort of damage to the equipment, or as I witnessed, to the side of a building. When I operate my hoe, it runs at a gentle throttle, and I can move monsters. Friends have seen me work, and the work that I have accomplished with this little hoe, and are amazed...amazed also that the unit operates so smoothly.
It does take some practice, granted, but once you have mastered the operation, you really have the machine work for you, without killing itself. I did the same with the FEL originally, I played with it until I could feel and appreciate the ground below it with my eyes closed.
Another trick about getting used to backhoes... throw down a beer can (or soda can) and toss the can around with the backhoe. This practice will really strengthen your abilities when sitting on the hoe for a job.
Willie H. ....
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| mbjacobs
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2003-03-18 51379
If you want to dig with your FEL get a toothbar for the bucket. You'll be amazed at what you can do. My Kubota thinks it's a monster earthmover. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-03-18 51382
Willie: I pretty much use my hoe as you do. As you mentioned, low rpm's produce about the same power as higher ones. Higher rpm's mostly make hoes and loader work faster, and that's what can jerk them around.
The rpm I run my hoe at has crept up as I've gotten experience at feathering the valves. I keep the rpm just low enough so I can operate the hoe without jerking it around or depending on the bumpers to stop swings. Higher rpm's gets full buckets out of deep trenches faster.
The 'can' trick sounds good for practicing. Last summer I was using the hoe to take courses of cinder blocks that were build around a well head about 5' deep. I'd pull them off the courses and then position them so I could clamp them between the bucket and stick. I think thumbs make this sort of thing easier. I don't have one and the picking of cinder blocks is about as fine of work as I've ever done with a hoe.
Pro's can get very fine with their work and almost to points that could be called artistry. It's well worth watching a pro demolish a building just to see what can be done. Somewhere in the archives I described the work demolishing a house at our camp. The work with a tracked hi-ho was purely amazing.
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| WillieH
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 543 New England
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2003-03-18 51385
Now they'res a cool idea...a tooth bar for the bucket.
I would imagine that as long as one did not exert too much digging force with it, it should work beautiful. Too much,
and there will be broken FEL components and welds.
I have seen several smaller FEL's come through that have been seriously wrecked. I just stand back a while and ponder what it was that this owner had gotten himself into that trashed an FEL so severely; maybe a tooth bar, maybe not. Maybe just a wanna-be that had no clue.
Neat idea!
Willie H. ....
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| WillieH
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 543 New England
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2003-03-18 51386
Usually, the general public can't comprehend the concept of artistry with a hoe, until it is being practiced in front of them. As you described, when you can appreciate the manipulations of such a piece of equipment yourself, to see a real professional handle it, as opposed to a hacker, it's beautiful.
I used a thumb on my hoe a couple of times. Borrowed it from a friend "to try out". I used it to move a pile of firewood size logs. Sure saved my back, but found that I really did not have a need to have one. If I need to pick alot of brush up, I just slap on the forks to the FEL and pick it all up at once and discard.
Willie H. ....
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| Glenn-D
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 54 Westmont, Illinois, summer home in Mountain Home Ar.
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2003-03-22 51608
I just bought a toothbar for my BX22TLB but its too muddy to try it yet. My point is a toothbar will give the bucket considerably more digging power but the penalty is more stress to the machine. Throttle back and take your time. Work the machine, do not abuse it. As a former CAT 977 driver I can say teeth are not an alternative to a hammer or explosives, but used prpoerly they add more versatility to the machine. BTW, my BX is the coolest "toy" I have ever owned. My wife even likes to play with it. LOL.....
Glenn ....
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