Go BottomSelecting the right size tractor
 | J B
Join Date: Posts: 1 
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2002-11-06 44683
With 40 acres of hilly timber land to manage including 3 acres in game patches, road maintenance, and utilization of tractor for dragging timber to a landing (every other year), what size Kubota will get the job done with no regrets? Implements would include 5'Bush Hog, 5' disks, 5'box blade, and front end loader.
Considering a four wheel drive in 3030DT, 3730DT, and 4330DT. Looking to buy new and will be a week end user only. Question comes down to economics yet I do not need over kill nor under sized either. I'm open to suggestions.
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2002-11-07 44695
The size of logs seems to be an important question, and there's a bunch of stuff about tractor logging in the archives. Off the top of my head, a logging arch or transfer trailer might get the logging done every-other year with a smaller tractor. A smaller tractor would be cheaper and might be more useful for the rest of the work as well. ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2002-11-07 44699
For the woods I often recommend a skidding winch to make life easy. There are a couple of manufacturers that build small ones that work well for tops as well as logs. The horsepower of the larger tractor chssis does little to enhance some tools while working with them. I think any of the L's would work fine. The L-3130 is at the small end of the range and would run what you need. I would recommend the glideshift or the DT model for the work that you have described. ....
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| pdavepennell
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 18 Michigan
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2002-11-07 44700
I am considering a tractor in the same situation. 80 acres recreational, 40 of which I want to clean up, Have you considered the L3000 or L4300 ? theese are bare bones machines. I started thinking bigger is better but I will only be useing the machine one or two weekends a month as my property is 4 hours away and I have to trailer the tractor for a year or so untill I can build a garage. I am also considering a temporary vinyl quanset style garage. I spoke to a kubota dealer earlier this week who said the factory reps are suggesting that there will be even more incentives and after seeing that the interest rates were dropped again this week I would think this very likely for all manufactures. Like you I wanted to do the same with the wood but I have decided it will be much more cost effective to cut it up smaller and deal with a smaller machine, My factor is weight not cost, I did not personally like the Kubota machines, For the mid-range kubotas are priced about the same as New Holland and Massey both of which seem to have better features to me for my physical size, Overall I am thinking that the JD 4410 is best of course it is more expensive, In the end I figure that even the smallest machine has got to be better than tilling those wildlife plots with a walk behind tiller like I did this year. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-11-07 44702
A few years ago a guy took some wood out of one of his lots. I'm not sure how big the logs were. A neighbour of his still keeps a team of horses for skidding logs. It's sort of a hobby now, but horses are good for people who don't want to cut up their bush with more skidder trails.
As I understand, the idea was to use the horses to get logs to the nearest skidder trail where a tractor would skid them to the nearest road where a truck could pick them up. His wife was going to drive the tractor, and I only know what she said they were going to do. The night before, we were playing country tunes in the hotel till the small hours. The guy likes his wife's singing so much he doesn't say a lot.
I haven't looked closely at his tractors but both would quality as sizable compacts. I think that a big heavy stable tractor is desirable to get logs through bush to a trail, but smaller works OK on a trail. Horses eliminated the need for a big tractor and for cutting trails. A big tractor can't go through very dense bush without cutting trails. A winch as Art mentioned probably would do a lot of the work done by the horses but it wouldn't be as nice to look at.
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| J B
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-11-07 44712
Thanks TomG for the input. However, I do not know how to find the archives that you spoke of. I did use the search function of this site for tractor logging, but found nothing.
Art thanks for your input too. You seem to favor Kubotas and I have not totally made up my mind, but believe that is the tractor that I will end up purchasing. Kubota dealer is about 60 miles, John Deere about the same, but their is a Land Trac dealer 10 miles away. I have looked at the Land Trac 3600 and like it but too many people have warned me to very cautious about this Korean made tractor w/ a Mitsubishi engine - question comes will the parts be available when you need them down the road?
I have one source who has experienced problems in getting parts for his New Hollands, his parts come from England by ship only, then are quarentined in Miami for 30 days before being sent to where they are needed some 3 months past.
Pdavepennell thank you for your response too. While I did look at the L3000 and L4300 bare bone models, the shuttle selector is what changed my mind with use of the front end loader. Do I sound sure? No I'm not at least not yet! A few dollars more spent is exceptable if in the long run I am better off, but these days who knows. I will perform the maintenace as called for because this will be the only tractor that I will ever own some 30 to 40 years if I not wishing for too much. The size of the logs was asked. I will be thinning pulp as well as small saw timber. By the time the real timber is ready to be taken, I'll probably be gone. Thanks for all who gave input. I'm with in 2 months of making a purchase and closer to making a educated decision but still have not made up my mind on the exact model or make. ....
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| DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 689 Western,Pa. 
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2002-11-07 44713
JB,
I don't know where you are located.
If you have a Kioti dealer in your area I highly recommend you check them out !! ....
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| J B
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-11-07 44714
Art, where would I begin my search for a skidding winch and to what make & model would you suggest for my intended purpose. My land is hilly and it makes more sense to winch pulp to small saw timber out of the bottoms over dragging them out with the tractor. Thanks. ....
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| J B
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-11-07 44715
Wolbert, I have looked around and have not yet found any one carrying that brand down here in the South. ....
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| Kyle_in_Tex
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 24 Austin, Tx.
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2002-11-07 44716
JB, Are you going to be doing much shredding between trees or in confined areas? If so, do yourself a favor, spend the money and get hydrostatic. If not, ignore my recomendation. With hydrostatic, you can back under trees, go forward and back up again without shifting one single gear or clutching. Major time saver if backing up a bunch. With a purchase this big, you owe it to yourself to shop every brand near you and ask questions until your blue in the face. You'll find out what kind of patience your dealer has. If they are worth their salt, they'll ask you questions til' both of you are blue in the face.
Good luck,
Kyle ....
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| J B
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-11-07 44717
Kyle, I haven't considered the hydrastat because of the money, but you bring out a good point. I haven't even considered what you are calling a shredder, but I have caused some blue faces. Explain more about the shredder please. Thanks. ....
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 | DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998 Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2002-11-07 44730
JB,
I only programmed the search to do an exact match, so you should search for "logging" only.
DennisCTB ....
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| Hal DeWitt
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 22 New Brunswick, Canada
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2002-11-07 44733
I had to add something here as you seem to be wanting to do what I am doing now with my tractor. I have a Kubota B7500DT equipped with a Norse 290 log winch, 60" Kubota MMM, Kubota 302FEL, 60" rear blade. I use the tractor to mow my 1 acre lawn and log my 100 acre woodlot. Also maintain about 1 1/2 mile road at the woodlot and 3 miles of road to my hunting camp. I am very concerned about damage to the woodlot and hence my choice of smaller tractor. The 7500 does evrything I want it to do. I yard hardwood (beech and maple). popple (aspen), and softwood (spruce and fir) logs. My yarding trails are up to 3/4 mile long to get to my main truck yard. I can yard generally 2 softwood tree length, and 1 hardwood or popple tree length. Tree length is 40' long and 12" to 16" at the butt. I have R4s on the tractor and use duo-grip chains when the snow comes. I had problems keeping the front end on the ground when trying to yard more wood but have found a 200 pound counter balance weight from a potato harvester that chains very nicely to the hooks I put on the FEL. Helped the weight distribution greatly. This is my first tractor and will probably be my last. Not because I don't want to keep having fun but the service seems so good from the Kubota that at 53 years of ago (me not the tractor) I think it will outlast me. I found this discussion site before I bought my tractor and based my decisions on a lot of what I have read here. I am more than willing to give tips on tractor logging on sidehill woodlots if you want to send me an e-mail. Got my Norse winch from my Kubota dealer. ....
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| pdavepennell
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 18 Michigan
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2002-11-08 44738
JB have you considered the Kubota B2910HSD or the JD4115 ? Both seem to be the only ones in a "in-between" class that I have seen by any manufacturer under the 2,000# mark and at least 20 pto hp. I started larger and have downsized my search primarliy due to trailer size. Hal Dewt, my lot sounds alot like yours, do you trailer your kubota and would you share trailer size and info. I have all of the same types of timber but my primary use for this hunting parcel will be to till wildlife plots, maintain the road, and mostly will be used for a chipper shredder as I have alot of softwood sapeling to thin out.This will be the only use the tractor sees. My home lawn contains too much landscapeing for a rideing mower. I am in Michigan. Here both kubota and Deere have great financing deals, although I have heard from a Kubota dealer they are expecting even better incentives before the years end due to slow sales. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-11-08 44739
I forget the brand of winch other than Norse that comes up a lot. It's made in Finland I believe (Firmi or something like that). A web search on 'tractor winch' will find Bradco and other names I don't recognize--but not the Finnish winch.
One very good feature to have is a but-plate. I believe the idea is to sit the winch down on the plate so it digs in, supports the weight on the ground and helps keep the tractor from winching to the log rather than the other way around.
One thing that comes out in the logging discussions is that it doesn't take much of a log to out-weigh a compact. On rough ground, logs may take off down hill and then it's very good to have a tractor that can 'out muscle' the log.
A couple of other points, and there are quite a few raised in this thread. In earlier discussions about HST, a conclusion was that HST's may have lower over-all costs than gears. The initial price of HST is higher, but long-term maintenance costs typically are lower. HST's take more fuel and deliver less power than gears, but diesel compacts run on thimble-fulls anyway and compacts tend to run out of traction before they run out of HP anyway. I like my used tractor with gears just fine, but a break from clutching and inching after a day of loader work would be welcome sometimes. I also have to keep in mind that in probably less than 1000 hours I'll be splitting the tractor to replace the clutch. Despite my fondness for my tractor and its gears, a lot of people think HST is well worth the extra cost and I do recognize the points.
I think most 3ph chipper units also have shredder sections. Small engine standalones often have only a chipper. The units I've seen the shredders are rectangular openings in the order of 1' x 2' on the side of the unit. Material like light slash can be fed directly into a shredder without trimming it. Very handy I think.
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2002-11-08 44759
here we go for winches Farmi, Norse, and Fransgard are the brands I'm familair with and I do sell the later two brands. I will check out in the morning to see if any have an easy web site. I always like to see a smaller winch than the tractor weight. For you the Norse 290 is a good option, the Fransgard V2800 is the equivelent size and will pull up to 6200lbs optimally. This is far more than you need but it is the smallest that I know of. You can get up to 150ft of cable and will pull 2 to 5' per second depending on the drum. With the butt plate make sure that it can be unpinned to allow it to fold back when hauling incase the ruts get deep. Good luck. ....
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| Hal DeWitt
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 22 New Brunswick, Canada
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2002-11-08 44762
The Norse 290 winch has a built on butt plate that digs into the ground as the winch pulls on the log. Set the winch with the top link so there is about a 20 degree angle between the winch and the ground and it will dig in fine if the ground is not frozen. That is a problem this time of year here in New Brunswick. I have not yet purchased an electronic control for the winch but plan to do so. It would certainly save a lot of leg work between tractor and chocker chains. I do trailer my tractor a lot. I had a trailer built the way I wanted it for hauling the tractor, snowmobiles and wood. Size is 7 feet wide by 14 feet long. I went with 7 feet wide so that I can reach the centre from either side. Workes very good for unloading wood, etc. Axle capacity is 4400 pounds, tandem axles, electric brakes both axles. The overall length is just right for the tractor with the loader and the winch. I went with a deck-over design so I could keep the trailer tires tracking in my truck tracks. That is quite important here if you get an 18 inch snowfall at the camp and the nearest plowed road is 40 miles away. I went with the gear model rather than the HST on the advice of my dealer. Most of my work is in the woods and the DT has better pulling power. From using the mower no question the HST would be better if that were your primary use for the tractor. Take one Kubota, add one Chevrolet 4 wheel drive, a Jonsered chainsaw and a woodlot and this boy loves life. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-11-09 44773
I hadn't thought about it, but I wonder what people who use winches do when the ground is frozen. Chaining a tractor to an anchor seems like a lot of work and maybe not a good idea.
I should be sensitive to the freezing problem. Just now I'm hoping that the next couple of days that are supposed to stay above freezing will thaw the ground enough to dig a couple of channels to a drainage ditch. I dug the ditch but didn't get around to connecting the drainage problem areas to the ditch. All frooze up down east too I guess. Where to?
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| pdavepennell
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 18 Michigan
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2002-11-09 44775
Hal, Sounds like fun to me, I bet you guys have some huge bucks up there. I cant keep the bears out of my place this year. You make a fine point about the tires on the trailer tracking your truck. Even though my proprty is only three miles in this could still be a issue in the winter. I have given up on Kubota though, I cant find a dealer in my area worth his sand. I did go look at the B2910 and I found it very awkward in a hydro model, I dont understand the concept of a clutch for the pto on a hydro model, They have the brake over the gas pedal which is also very awkward, how can you brake and accelerate at the same time for a sharp turn ??? Also I found the Gas pedal reverse to be equally as awkward, they seem a well built machune but they are not configured in a way that I would consider user friendly, This unit was $15,600 with FEL, The JD 4115 is $16,000 With FEL, Both with R-4 but the JD is so much more comfortable and I like it without that darn clutch for the pto, JD also has folding ROPS and the availability of the i match system for quick implement change. I looked at your model and the Kubota dealer told me not to consider it as I would not be happy with loader performance. Again I have never owned a tractor so I am not parcial to any brand, I have looked at all the others and I feel that Kubota and JD are the closest competitors. New Holland is set up EXACTLY like the Kubota for a whole lot more. I didn't like anything else I saw for one reason or the other. Are you dragging logs to make lumber ? do you transport them to a mill or do you cut them yourself ?? Now about that chainsaw...LOL. I am a Stihl fan allday, but I am biased. When we were in high school we cut firewood for money, we were long on ideas and short on cash. A local Stihl dealer was able to get Stihl to loan us pro series saws for a whole summer no charge. I've used a Stihl ever since. My dad still uses a homelite he bought 20 years ago, keep em sharp, keep em clean most will outlive us. ....
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-11-09 44784
PDave, I think there are some conceptual issues here. If you are operating an HST you really use the brake pedal very little.
You set the hand throttle and step on the “go” (not gas) pedal, and the tractor moves in the desired direction. When you release the “go” pedal, the tractor comes to a stop, no matter what the engine rpm is.
On my Kubota, if I let the pedal come back to neutral abruptly, the wheels will lock up and skid a little. It does this even going downhill with a bucket full of rocks.
I use my brake pedal to KEEP the tractor stopped, but rarely have to use it to actually stop the tractor.
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-11-09 44787
Hal, I keep a stack of cement blocks in the driveway and use them for ballast and counter ballast. They weigh 27# apiece and my 48-inch FEL will hold up to 12 of them. It takes about 30 seconds to stack them in the bucket an about two seconds to let them slide out when I am done. ....
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 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2002-11-09 44791
JB, I understand that you are leaning towards a Kubota. You may want to strongly consider a John Deere 4310 or 4410 MFWD with a 430 Loader, 45 Rear Blade, and a 509 or MX5 Rotary Cutter. The ehydro does away with the wheels locking up when you let off. These tractor are suited to a wide variety of tasks. If you are considering a John Deere, contact me and can email you some comparison information. Perhaps I can offer you an alternative. ....
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| Hal DeWitt
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 22 New Brunswick, Canada
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2002-11-09 44804
PDave: bucks here are pretty good. Anything over 200 pounds is considered a good buck. Our deer herd in my part of the province (north west) has been really decimated by clear cuts, coyotes and several hard winters. The only good thing I have ever seen result from a clear cut is moose. We have many more moose in the area of my camp than deer now. Exactly opposite of 20 years ago. Bear are very numerous also since the clear cuts. I process the logs I cut different ways. The popple I haul in tree length to the truck yard and then cut into 101 inch logs. They get trucked to a mill in Easton, Maine (only jiust nicely across the border) for processing into veneer. The hardwood I cut into firewood right at roadside and leave to season before I haul it on my trailer. The softwood I haul to the truck yard in tree length and cut into logs. I have them trucked to a mill. I have also had a portable mill brought on site for cutting some lumber I wanted to use myself. Sounds like you found a good dealer in the Stihl lad. ....
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| pdavepennell
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 18 Michigan
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2002-11-09 44806
Mark; I dont mean to be argumentative but I really dont think there are any conceptual issues here. The Kubota B2910 is in my not so humble opinion a very poorly designed tractor and can not in my never humble opinion even begin to compare to a JD. Yes, I understand the go pedal and throttle, Call me crazy I still like the idea of being able to get my foot on the brake pedal. Kubota here is a totally moot point anyhow as I have been to three local dealers who cant be bothered to get of their duffs to sell a tractor, Not only that I did not see one service bay in any of the dealers, I know I know, orange is so great they never need service. I am sure they like ALL manufactures build some good ones and some not so good, For my money its the new 10 series by JD, If I had my druthers I would get the 4410 but I am trying to find a lighter alternative. Hal, do you have a FEL on yours and are you happy with the loader performance ? ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-11-09 44807
Sorry, your terminology led me astray. I've got a green one too, just hope it sells soon. ....
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| pdavepennell
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 18 Michigan
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2002-11-10 44809
Mark, LOl, me too, there is nothing worse than being stuck with something you dont want. I Have looked at several of the Kubotas and this model was the only one I noticed that the pedals were at such extreme angles on. The problem I noticed, For me, For my size, was that the brake was not only above the hydro pedal it was a couple of inches closer to the driver, so it is not only necessary to pick your foot up to brake but you must also move your leg back and lift, this seems a very un-natural movement to me. I will add that I would look at a 10 series if I Could find a dealer within an hours drive that would be willing to actually let me drive one, this would require a dealership with a lot larger than 25' x 25'. I would also like to see the Grand L "30" series that is supposedly going to be out within the month, Although that does seem like alot of electronic gadgets. Hal, does your model have pedals like this and what are your thoughts ? I do really want a model that will give me 20 pto horsepower for a 4" chipper shredder. We were through your neck of the woods a couple of years ago, beatifull country. We drove from Detroit to Montreal for a couple of days then around the Gaspe to Camp Bonaventure for three days of Atlantic Salmon fishing, It was a great vacation, The Reel Guys from ESPN were there filming a show that week and were sure had alot of laughs, We the came down from Quebec through New Brunswick to Bar harbor. A lot of the folks from the Atlantic Salmon Federation were there as well, I can't remember what town they were from but it is on the Bay of Fundy. For those who have never been in Hals neck of the woods if it doesn"t have a fly on the end of the line, well, most probably dont really consider it fishing. It is a truelly Gods country. ....
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| pdavepennell
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 18 Michigan
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2002-11-10 44810
I should also add that I had to drive an hour out of the northern Detroit subburbs to find a JD dealer who wasn't totally full of himself, also the price a little further north are about $1,500 cheaper. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-11-10 44821
My BX22 has exactly the same pedal arrangement you are describing. I not small either, and found it uncomfortable to lift and stretch out my leg to use the brake pedal, but I got the tractor anyway because of the price points. The first few times I used the tractor I had to use one hand to lift my knee into the right position, but then I adapted and those muscles got used to that motion and I can do it now without any thought or assistance. Even old dogs can learn new tricks. ....
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| Hal DeWitt
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 22 New Brunswick, Canada
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2002-11-10 44837
PDave: super to hear you were in NB. Atlanic Salmon truly are the king of fishes and the pursuit of them can become quite addictive (so I ahve been told). My wife says she thinks I was born with a fly rod in one hand and a canoe pole in the other. The Atlanic Salmon Federation is in St. Andrews on the Fundy coast a short drive from Calais, Maine. My sister and her husband live there where he is Regional Director for ASF. I do not have the pedal arrangements you describe as my tractor is gear drive not HST. I do have a Kubota FEL. I have had not problems with it at all. I use it for moving snow, dirt and mostly for pushing logs into a pile in the yard. I could use more power there but that means a bigger tractor and ultimately more long term damage to the woodlot. That does not align with my long term objectives for the property. ....
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| Hal DeWitt
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 22 New Brunswick, Canada
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2002-11-10 44838
Mark: good tip on the cement blocks but they won't work for what I am doing. I use the FEL to push the logs into a pile in my woods yard. I was using a few lengths of hardwood in the bucket for ballast but would have to reload the bucket every time I pushed the logs as the pieces fell out. With the counter wieght I am using now I hook a chain from each end over the hooks I welded to the bucket and let the weight hang inside the bucket. With the chains snug it doesn't beat around or anything. I can push the logs without losing the weight (if I am careful) and so don't have to reload. ....
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| pdavepennell
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 18 Michigan
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2002-11-10 44849
Hal, Yup the Atlantic salmon is a addictive bugger, I found out just how little I know about fishing from those boys in Quebec, LOL. It is an amazing thing to see a fish that large move to your fly, only to pull it right out of its mouth because the water is so clear and you can see it all. My wife and I had a invitation to visit all the people at the ASF, but it was a little out of our way. All great folks who are passionate about what they do. We donated a couple of years but after the Canadian Firearms laws change we stopped alot of sport funding to Canada. God knows , not the the US is great, with the first female Governor I'm afraid I might be looking for a new place to live soon considering she received a F grade from the NRA. Maybe we could just give both of our governments a couple of good flushes and start over again. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2002-11-11 44863
I did recommend the Glideshift or DT transmission to you as the best transmission for what you say you are going to be doing. The Glideshift will allow you or who ever to shift up and down thru the gears with out grinding and give you a forwrd reverse shuttle for loader work. I've had people who have used the hydro for towing just like skidding logs, but this is where they are the least productive and most frustrating. ....
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| J B
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-11-12 44914
Art, I know my next step is to get out there and test drive these tractors. This should help me make my decision but being a one time tractor owner (the one I'm about to buy)I'm still concerned about maintenance cost and more importantly repair cost. If I go with a Kubota, which would be longer lasting and least costly should it need repair, the DT or the GST. Here I'm concerned with the overall cost and with all things being equal in annual maintenance and tender loving care on handling the machine, not abusing it. The JD is the only other make I'm considering, but the increased cost and future costs of maintenance and repair have me undecided. Do you have suggestions or comments on what I should consider in order to make that final decision? ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2002-11-12 44919
I would go for the glideshift. The less you need the clutch the less it will wear. the glideshift is smooth to shift and has little hesitation while shifting and we have not put in any clutches to date on them so they must be working well compared to the straight gear drive. ....
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