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 | Dwight
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 20 
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2002-09-15 42398
Hi, My wife and I have been looking at the BX2200. We've checked out the other makes but the BX2200 costs less, is the exact size, and has all the options we wanted. I have a couple of questions that someone might be able to help me with.
Can you mix tire styles on the BX2200? While at the dealer yesterday, the salesman told us they sell most of the BX2200s with bar tread on the rear and turf on the front. I like that setup but salesman for the othermakes indicated that on 4 wheel drive models the tires must be a matched set of both front and rear.
The other question on the BX2200 is about the power take-off. While there yesterday the salesman tried the shift the power take-off from mid to rear and back. It hung up between the rear position and the mid/rear position. He had tough time getting it back to the mid position. It took several minutes and he ground the gears in the process. Is that normal or is there a problem with it somewhere. I'm thinking it might be how he tried to do it.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada 
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2002-09-15 42412
I have closely examined the tires in question and I think there is a difference in diameter between the sets. I have also noted in the sales brochure that when they talk about total width or ground clearance they use the turfs as a basis of measurement, so I think the turfs are a little taller and a bit wider. The front and rear tires on a four wheel drive do have to be matched but there is a margin for error and most of the time the front axle is designed to run a little faster (a couple percent) anyway.
That said, the question is: Will it hurt the tractor to mix the tires? Most likely it will not, especially if you remember to take it out of 4WD when operating on asphalt or other hard surfaces.
But the concept is a little screwy to me. What does he do with the other parts? Does he have a room filled with surplus front bar tires and rear turfs? I have heard that some folks who a use heavy tractor for finish mowing will some times mix tires like this but only after it is demonstrated that the front tires tear up the lawn on tight turns.
I may be biased, but standard bar tires in my view have very limited usefulness. They are nowhere near the universal application tires. If you are pulling heavy loads over, or plowing in, soft WET soil, then that is your tire. For almost any other task I would recommend another tire style.
If what you are planning to do with the BX2200 can be done better with a turf tire on the front then I think it calls for a matched set all the way around.
As far as the shifting the PTO functions, this could be another indication that your salesman may be a recent product our ‘improved’ school system or from the shallow end of the gene pool.
Did he use the clutch? It is the stubby metal petal on the left floorboard with a cartoon picture of two gears coming apart. Nothing irritates me more than folks trying to sell or demonstrate something that they know nothing about and will not or cannot read the manufacturers operating instruction and specifications.
I guess it is my turn to do a rant on CTB. Sorry MrEthics. I’ll get out of your corner now.
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| Dwight
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 20
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2002-09-15 42423
Thanks for the info. I'm not sure what he does with the extra mismatched tires but now that you mention it he said some buyers purchase extra wheels and tires so they can have a full set of both. That may be just a marketing ploy to get buyers to get an extra set of wheels and tires. The reason I liked the setup was to avoid the possibility of tearing up the lawn with bar tires and still have the traction of the rear for wet grass. We do have some small hills to mow but they wouldn't require the 4 wheel drive when a little wet. If it's soft enough to need 4 wheel drive it's way to wet to mow. Really the only time we will need the 4 wheel drive might be to plow a little snow but it would be nice knowing you had it if you needed it.
As far as the PTO, no he didn't use the clutch. I knew there had to be something he wasn't doing right. We are supposed to talk to him later this week so I'll let him know that he had better read the owners manual. In the mean time I going to check around for other local dealers. We're located in southeastern Ohio so if anyone has any suggestions it might help .
Thanks again. ....
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| Cobranut
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 6 VA
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2002-09-15 42444
I have the bar tires and have had no problem with them tearing up the turf when turning. The only time this could be a problem is in 4WD, but you wouldn't use this for mowing.
Tell your idiot salesman to disengage the PTO clutch (the small lever in front of the PTO selector) before shifting PTO's. The gears should never grind. Ouch.
There is no clutch pedal on this machine, the pedal described is the differential lock.
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-09-15 42446
I have not yet taken delivery of my BX22, but while I evaluating the similar BX2200 the local dealer told me the diff/lock was the PTO clutch. Since he was too old to have suffered a modern public education I guess he falls into the other category. Sure do wish I could down load the owner’s manuals online from manufacturers websites. It would sure solve a multitude of problems.
Cobranut, do you see any advantage to mixing tire types? ....
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| Cobranut
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 6 VA
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2002-09-15 42449
Mark,
I've only had this unit a few weeks, so my experience with it is limited to mowing and smoothing some gravel.
I have the bar tires all round, and the only time they have left a mark was with the loader attached and running on the gravel, you could see the tread marks, but nothing serious.
Without the loader, I haven't had any trouble with them cutting up the lawn, but then my lawn isn't exactly golf-course green quality either.
If I were only using it for mowing, I'd go with the turf tires all round, and use the 4WD to handle the slick spots, otherwise, I'd go with bar tread front and rear.
Also, loading the rears with fluid should help with stability and traction whichever tire type you have.
Mine were loaded by the dealer, so I never tried it without fluid.
Hope this helps,
David ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-09-16 42470
After getting a couple of flats with my JD4100 and figuring out what a time consuming pain in the butt it is to repair a fluid filled tire, I am going straight for the wheel weights on the new BX22. I hope that 50 pounds on each wheel and the low center of gravity will be enough. Time will tell. The BX tires I have seen appear to be tubeless, did you dealer install tubes first and what type of fluid did he use? ....
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| Cobranut
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 6 VA
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2002-09-16 42518
Mark,
The tires are tubeless, and they're loaded with calcium chloride, which is what Kubota recommends.
I just hope the paint on the wheels holds up, to prevent corrosion.
I've considered dismounting them, washing them out, and reloading with an ethylene glycol/water mix, which will protect the wheels from rust. I don't know how much weight I will lose with this mix though.
I think the chloride added 110 lbs. per tire, according to the chart in the manual.
50 lb wheel weights will certainly help.
I hope I don't cut a tire, as I hadn't really thought of the repair hassles.
Later,
David ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-09-17 42526
Another way to think about it that if AG tires aren't making bar prints in the lawn, then they probably aren't delivering much traction on any surface either. The bars have to sink-in or it's just surface area on top the bars that provides traction, Ag tires on hard surfaces have less area of contact than turfs. Turfs probably have better traction on ice than Ags.
I suppose that ags rear and turfs front is an approach but I don't exactly understand it. It seems to me that there's going to be bar prints if the tractor is ballasted for traction and the lawn is even a bit wet. I'm not sure that turfs on the front would improve things that much. The turfs would ride easier in road gear though. A disadvantage is turfs usually have less load capacity than Ag and certainly R4's.
I always thought it was common practice to use tubes with CACL loading, but I guess factory recommendations have to have be given credibility.
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-09-17 42529
Tom, The cleats on the BX ags are maybe around 1/2 to 3/4 inch deep and quite narrow in relation to true Ag tires. And they really do have a huge footprint compared to other tractors in the weight class. So they will not fall into the standard classification. They are more like a very aggressive turf tire. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-09-17 42530
We have debated this topic quite extensively in the past, and all those thoughts are preserved in the archives. Here are some high points:
Both CaCl and antifreeze will kill all plant life for several seasons in areas where they leak. The antifreeze may also attract your pets who will want to drink it with fatal results.
Filling tubes and not tires is a much better way to go, as it will make the rims last much longer.
It will take at least a decade or more for rims with tubes to rust to the point of needing replacement.
Wrestling loaded tires on and off the tractor is a serious pain in various body parts. If you are adding 110# I reckon the whole tire assembly weighs around 150#. My 4100 rear tires weighed 200# loaded.
There is a product called Rim Guard out there somewhere that has a high specific gravity and is nontoxic and supposedly will not rust the rims. It is made from beets. It beets the hell out of me as to where you can find it.
Kubota charges around $200 for a complete set of new tires and rims. In the tractor world that is very cheap. Replacement rims for my 4100 retail for $750 and a complete set of tires and rims are in the $1300 range. Then you pay for shipping!
If you go with tubes (recommended) I suspect you will have to order a special size for those short fat tires, so having a spare tube or two might be a good idea. The tire guys around here say they have trouble getting the patches to stick to a calcium or antifreeze coated tube.
Wheel weights: Again Kubota is the bargain of the century @ $89 for a 100# of weights. The first 100# of weights for a Deere 4100 are about $300 and a complete set is $700.
Hope this helps. I am sure this will generate more responses and more information. Happy tractoring.
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-09-18 42556
Thanks Mark. I guess it makes sense that a tractor like the BX really isn't intended for heavy ground engaging and a true bar tire probably isn't needed. Who knows? A bar tire on a lightweight tractor may not even provide as much traction as a wide turf. They'd have to be very narrow for the weight to get bars to sink in, and narrow bars may have less traction than wide turfs.
I know that with my 3000 + lbs. tractor and unloaded turfs, I can't drive a path on the lawn too often before I start making a new drive. Ag tires would make a real mess but something like aggressive turfs might work well for me too. I’d probably get them all around rather than mixing types. My plain turfs already do a pretty good job of tearing the turf in sharp turns and especially in 4wd. I can’t really consider turfs to be a solution, and I wouldn’t expect that a slightly more aggressive tread would be much more of a problem. For me (with a heavier tractor), using 2wd and avoiding sharp turns seems a better solution than mixed tire types. Most of the mixed tire types I’ve heard of have been R4’s on the front for people who do heavy loader work and want higher load rated tires.
One possible advantage of my plain old turfs is that if the wheels slip on the lawn they tend to burn rather than excavate the turf. I'm pretty careful if I have to work a pile of dirt or pull something on the lawn so I notice wheel slip pretty fast. Most times the lawn has come back where the turfs have spun. I suspect that more aggressive treads would slip less but tear out the turf when they did.
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-09-18 42564
Tom, you just put into other words what I have been saying for a couple years. Miniature Ag tires on tiny tractors don’t work well in most applications. There are too few cleats spaced too far apart, the cleats are too deep and the tractor doesn’t have sufficient weight to drive them into the soil. To top it all of they actually get far less traction than a turf or an R4 and are less stable in roll over situations. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-09-18 42566
The tires I saw at the Kubota Dealer on the BX2200 were refered to by the dealer as Bar Turfs, they looked like wide tread turfs with S S S on them instead of turf snow tire like treads.
Mark are you seeing the same thing or more like a narrow tread ag tire???
It was my take that with such a small diameter rear tire, the bar turfs was an attempt to get more traction with still being good on lawns.
Dennis
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-09-18 42570
I am looking at the same tire. I was trying to describe the width and depth of the bars on the tread as being unlike standard bar tires. I had forgotten they are called bar turfs, it's a perfect name. ....
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| Patriot
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 7 Fuquay-Varina, NC
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2002-09-18 42577
Dwight, regarding the PTO issue. I'm a newbie on the BX2200
but regarding switching between mid and rear PTO: If when
trying to move between them it is difficult, put the selector on the PTO position that is workable, then use the other lever to actually "engage" the PTO i.e get the shaft turning, then dis-engage the PTO and then go back to the selector lever and it should easily move to the position you want. Had this happen on mine and the mechanic helped me out, something to do with hydraulic pressure, good luck... ....
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| Dwight
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 20
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2002-09-18 42601
Thanks Patriot. I'm new to this myself. They are supposed to deliver our BX2200 this Friday. I did talk to some BX2200 owners around here and they said that the slightest pressure on the hydro peddle can also cause that too.
As far as tires I took a closer look at the tread design this time. With the turf tires I could see what Mark was talking about with the SSSS design. The bar tread tires are not a straight bar tread ether. The bars appear to turn out on the end. The bars are shorter and wider then the bars on the 26x12x12s I've been using on my Bolens HT23. On the Bolens web sites I have seen them referred to as full flotation tires. That's what we're used to so we went with the bar tires on the BX2200 for now. My wife and I just finished building a new home and there's not much of a lawn to mow yet. We do have a 7 ac field to mow. The bar tires are not going to hurt it a bit.
Thanks for everyone's help! I'm going to learn a lot here at CTB.
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